Apparent design flaw on the SW22 Victory.

The take down screw appears to be a #12-24 Low Head Socket Cap Screw. Its shaft is 0.210" which is a #12 screw thread. All black cap screws are commonly Grade 8 fasteners or stronger. I can't find the torque specs for this fastener but here is a torque chart for a #10 and a 1/4 inch which are the next bigger and smaller fasteners to a #12...

Click on the DOWNLOADS pdf hyperlink.
Low Head Socket Cap Screws | Coburn-Myers

...Since the 1/4 screw torques to 77.9 in./lbs. and the #10 screw torques to 33.5 in./lbs., let's "assume" that the #12 cap screw torques between the two. I get around 56 in./lbs. by my calculations.
I have been torquing my take down screw to 40 in./lbs. and it never came loose. I just took my take down screw back out to help out here but it seemed to break away easier than usual. Since it has not been shot since I cleaned and reassembled the pistol, I've decided to increase the torque to 50 in./lbs.
Hope that helps.
 
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I like the fishing line idea. Has anyone tried a little teflon tape? I remember reading somewhere that it for lack of a better term fills the treads and will help keeps the treads tight some. I've used the purple loc-tite on optics on a Ruger MKIII and not had great luck, went to blue and no more problems.

My Victory should be here in a few days, so I'm glad this kind of info is out there to help us new owners.
 
I haven't resorted to going up to the garage to get a torque wrench and hex bit to put my gun back together.

I did try blue Loctite. It didn't work. The screw is such a precise fit into the hole that the Loctite was pushed out onto the mating surfaces of the receiver and frame, where I found it the next time I cleaned the gun. The internal and external threads had no Loctite on them whatsoever.

I've just been tightening it very tight, tighter than I would like, and have not had the problem again. The only thing I worry about is wearing out the internal flats of the hex interface.
 
patjmc said:
blue loctite wouldn't have to be used every time the screw was removed/replaced. There is usually residual dried on the threads that will still hold the screw tight.
Click to expand...


I used fingernail polish instead, on my rifle scope mounts. Seems to work as good as Locktite.



---------------------
 
Well I tightened it so tight the Allen wrench started to bend. Thought I had it and it nearly fell out the next range trip. To bad S&W didn't use a locking take down wheel like on my Beretta U22. I like this gun and will fix the problem some how. Don
 
I wonder if the problem guns screws are bottoming out? The screw will never tighten if it does.
I'm testing mine to 1000 rounds at 50 in./lbs. or I'd do it.
Could someone measure from the shoulder of the cap to the end of the thread and compare it to the shoulder of the trigger guard to the bottom of the threaded hole?
If that's the problem, all that would be needed is to file or grind a little off the end of the screw. S&W could send out new cap screws.
 
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triplettoo said:
Hi all, I purchased my victory about two weeks ago. I've been to the range twice and both times the retaining screw did come loose. I opened a trouble ticket with SW customer service on monday asking for the torque spec. Here is the reply I received this morning. "Hand tightening should be enough. We do not have a specific spec on that."
Click to expand...

That is just plain sad!
 
I just finished 1000 rounds today. My take down screw is still tight. I have five magazines and I got the barrel as hot as I could.
There is SOMETHING DIFFERENT from my SW22 to the ones who have problems.

Here is my method...
Clean and lubricate the take down screw using Mass Air Flow Sensor Cleaner to strip the screw and receiver threads clean and use M Pro 7 gun oil to lube the threads. No Loctite.
Tighten to 50 in./lbs. although the take down screw stayed tight at 40 in./lbs. through 500 rounds.
The shoulder of my cap screw is square and flat to the shank.
The resting place for the shoulder of the screw cap inside the frame is clean and flat. No shiny surface in there.
With the frame removed from the slide and barrel, my take down screw goes all the way into the threaded piece in the barrel until the threads end where the unthreaded shank starts.
The gap from the screw cap shoulder to the threaded piece in the barrel is less than the bulkhead in the frame. That means my screw isn't bottoming out before it gets tight.

My take down screw SNAPS when I break it loose.

There has to be something different between my SW22 and the problem pistols.
 
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Another observation...
There are contact marks where my barrel meets the frame. No contact marks between the slide and the frame.
 
Well there are enough of us working on this problem we should come up with something. Alwaysarmed may have it but we will see. If I could get just half of what he is getting I could live with it. I think we should keep on S&W CS just in case they finely decide they may have a problem and have come up with a fix we don't know about. I will call them tomorrow as my screw nearly fell out. Don
 
I am not at all surprised by this. The Victory looks like a warmed over 22A. Use of a hex screw turned this Victory model into a non-starter for me as soon as I realized how take down was accomplished.
 
Red loctite

On my new 442 yoke screw. I thought it was a little tight. I guess they don't want folks messing around with the innards anymore.

I mean I didn't put lighter springs in there or anything but that must be what they are afraid of. I applied just a very wee bit of CLP on the sides of the hammer and besides, I always take everything down on a new gun just to see that everything is a-okay.

This was a brand new from the gun shop 442, not a used gun so it came that way from the factory.

Does this seem strange to anyone? That they evidently don't anticipate an owner will ever take the side plate off a 442?
 
Not that the information would be earth shaking, I would like to see included what ammo is being used included in the posts.
 
Ed Fowler said:
I would like to see included what ammo is being used included in the posts.
Click to expand...

CCI SV brick
Blazer brick
Federal Champion HP bulk pack blue box 525 rounds
Federal Champion brick
Aguila Super Extra HV brick
Aguila Rifle Match brick
CCI Mini Mag LRN 100 box
CCI Mini Mag HP 100 box
CCI Sub Sonic HP 100 box
Norma USA Tac-22 brick

That makes about 3000 rounds through this pistol without any glitch whatsoever.
 
Ed Fowler said:
Not that the information would be earth shaking, I would like to see included what ammo is being used included in the posts.
Click to expand...

25 rounds of each. The screw was tighten as tight as I could get it with the Allen wrench provided. It was about to fall out on the last group shot.
Norma TAC-22
Remington Thunderbolts
CCI Standard Velocity
Federal Target Grade Auto Match
Eley Target
Aguila Rifle Match.

All ammo cycled fine and gave good groups.
 
I would use a bore brush a rimfire shooter best friend zip zip it is done a couple of q-tips a quick swipe of a toothbrush easy piese lemon easy ;)
 
Fired another 100 rounds today and the Purple Loc Tite held so far. I normally only shoot a 100 rounds a range trip as I go 4 to 5 times a week. Don
 
s-w bug said:
fired 100 rounds today. So far o-ring seams to be working.
Click to expand...

I shot mine today, put 100 rounds through it - yep, it comes loose. I'll try the #61 o-ring solution and see how it works out. Where'd you pick yours up at?

Thanks for the tip!
-- P.J.
 
Picked up my Victory about a week ago and had it out to the range three times and experienced problems with the take down screw backing out. Also was surprised when I did my pre range cleaning at the force it took to break the take down screw loose. Lots of pressure then a very crisp "pop" as it broke loose. After less than 100 rounds on trip one and two I went to Lowe's and bought an extended 1/8" hex to put some muscle into it. Tightened it enough that I thought no way this is moving. After 75 rounds today it was loose again. I am looking forward to trying AlwaysArmed's suggested solution and see if that will tighten it up enough to hold for awhile. Really like the pistol and the sights. Very accurate for under $400 and nice trigger out of the box. Not sure what I could do at this time to improve on how it performs. Agree that we should keep pressure on S&W CS concerning the issue as this is not normal for a pistol. Appreciate everyone's ideas and sharing concerning this issue.
 
I also have a brand new sw22 shot it 300 rds without the screw getting loose. I did disassemble and clean prior to range session tightened the screw and as I said it did not loosen. I wonder if the length of the screw has any bearing - maybe some are a little longer or shorter then others???????
 
I had the screw come loose the fist time out. I also cleaned it prior. After that I made sure to tighten it down with my own 5in Allen key to get enough torque. Haven't had a problem since.
 
Two trips to the range with mine. 150 rounds 1st trip, 350 today. All screws stayed nice and tight. Clean and lube before 1st trip, between trips and after 2nd. Love this gun so far. Several different brands and types used, only had trouble with Federal 36 grain Value Pack not ejecting.
 
Loctite is not intended for use on screws that must repeatedly be removed and reapplied.
S&W copied this feature from the Browning Buckmark. And this is the reason that I sold my Buckmark. In order to clean the gun, you had to remove a screw that held the barrel to the frame. And the screw would often come loose while I was shooting the gun in competitions. If you repeatedly use Loctite on the screw, it won't be long before you have a mess on your hands.
I feel that using a screw to attach the barrel to the frame is a design mistake.
 
quickkill730 said:
I had the screw come loose the fist time out. I also cleaned it prior. After that I made sure to tighten it down with my own 5in Allen key to get enough torque. Haven't had a problem since.
Click to expand...

Maybe using enough torque is the answer. There are inexpensive torque wrenches on the market, calibrated in inch-pounds. Once you have the magic number, you could repeat it every time.
What does the owner's manual say about this screw?

POSTSCRIPT: I was able to view the manual online. It says to tighten the screw until it is 'snug'. And it advises to periodically check the tightness of the screw and tighten as necessary. I suppose this means keeping an allen wrench in your range bag and checking the screw before and during shooting.
 
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I took a paint pen and put a small mark on the screw and a mark on the frame. I used Purple Loc Tite after really cleaning the screw and the screw hole then threaded it in, backed it out to get the loc Tite in the threads good then torqued to 40 inch pounds. It was coming loose every 50 rounds and nearly fell out the last time. After doing this it has not mover in 700 rounds.
 
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