Apparent design flaw on the SW22 Victory.

[AlwaysArmed]

Always armed, I would like to have the hours back we spent fighting galled stainless steel fasteners over the years

Oh yes. I found Nitro drill bits best. I would also keep broken pin punches and sharpen the edge of the pin like a chisel. Sometimes it will bite in and the edge of the cap screw will break loose when pecked with a hammer. Not usually though.

 

[Barrie]

NH Old School if you find out what the actual torque specs are would you please let us all know as it may help someone else from having a similar problem. I would hate to hear of a barrel coming off during someone's range shoot and being hurt in any way from it happening.

 

[Targets Guy]

Mine has not come loose the last two times to the range. 160 and 170 round sessions. I carry an allen wrench now in the bag so it no longer matters. As a matter of fact once I began carrying the allen wrench there has not been a problem. Hmmm?

 

[Fishslayer]

Pretty much every optic mount, rail system, and other gun related item with a screw recommends a loctite type product. Every screw on front sight from Glock to Beretta to CZ recommends loctite. We even add loctite to the screws on our weapon mounted lights. Loctite is not like tig welding or something and one does not need to bathe the threads in the stuff. Just a dab will do.

The problems usually arise when people use too much or the wrong type. I've actually seen people recommend red for use on #2 & #4 screws.

 

[frankcr]

Well if people still want to do fasteners like they were done in the past, they can. Just use lock washers which hold by digging into the fastener and tapped hole surface to maintain a mechanical bond. The problem arises when the fastener is removed and reinstalled enough times to mess up the surfaces.

The modern way is with thread locking compound which holds well but can be removed with solvents upon disassembly and does not do damage to metal surfaces.

Red Loctite on small screws is way past ridiculous and not designed for that service. Someone did not bother to read the label on the package

 

[triplettoo]

Hi all, I purchased my victory about two weeks ago. I've been to the range twice and both times the retaining screw did come loose. I opened a trouble ticket with SW customer service on monday asking for the torque spec. Here is the reply I received this morning. "Hand tightening should be enough. We do not have a specific spec on that."

 

[just for fun]

blue loctite wouldn't have to be used every time the screw was removed/replaced. There is usually residual dried on the threads that will still hold the screw tight.

What ever happened to using Monofilament fishing line? Short piece in the hole, install screw, tighten! Small screws=thin line!

 

[Magload]

I have 100 rounds through my new Victory. Field stripped it first and tighten the screw with the Allen wrench provided using the long end for leverage and really tighten it hard. Hasn't came loose yet.

 

[Salty RI]

NH Old School if you find out what the actual torque specs are would you please let us all know as it may help someone else from having a similar problem. I would hate to hear of a barrel coming off during someone's range shoot and being hurt in any way from it happening.

I read on another thread that it was 20 ft lbs.

 

[tcon]

If I know that I will be removing a fastener, I use Vibra-Tite VC-3 Threadmate instead on anaerobic threadlockers like LocTite or GunTite. VC-3 (et al.) is applied to the threads of a screw and allowed to dry 30 minutes before assembling. It works by friction and not by bonding. It's reusable up to 5 times after which it can be removed with a brush and solvent and reapplied.

 

[AlwaysArmed]

The take down screw appears to be a #12-24 Low Head Socket Cap Screw. Its shaft is 0.210" which is a #12 screw thread. All black cap screws are commonly Grade 8 fasteners or stronger. I can't find the torque specs for this fastener but here is a torque chart for a #10 and a 1/4 inch which are the next bigger and smaller fasteners to a #12...

Click on the DOWNLOADS pdf hyperlink.
Low Head Socket Cap Screws | Coburn-Myers

...Since the 1/4 screw torques to 77.9 in./lbs. and the #10 screw torques to 33.5 in./lbs., let's "assume" that the #12 cap screw torques between the two. I get around 56 in./lbs. by my calculations.
I have been torquing my take down screw to 40 in./lbs. and it never came loose. I just took my take down screw back out to help out here but it seemed to break away easier than usual. Since it has not been shot since I cleaned and reassembled the pistol, I've decided to increase the torque to 50 in./lbs.
Hope that helps.

 

[dingode]

I like the fishing line idea. Has anyone tried a little teflon tape? I remember reading somewhere that it for lack of a better term fills the treads and will help keeps the treads tight some. I've used the purple loc-tite on optics on a Ruger MKIII and not had great luck, went to blue and no more problems.

My Victory should be here in a few days, so I'm glad this kind of info is out there to help us new owners.

 

[NH Old School]

I haven't resorted to going up to the garage to get a torque wrench and hex bit to put my gun back together.

I did try blue Loctite. It didn't work. The screw is such a precise fit into the hole that the Loctite was pushed out onto the mating surfaces of the receiver and frame, where I found it the next time I cleaned the gun. The internal and external threads had no Loctite on them whatsoever.

I've just been tightening it very tight, tighter than I would like, and have not had the problem again. The only thing I worry about is wearing out the internal flats of the hex interface.

 

[AlwaysArmed]

Loctite on stainless steel needs a primer. Here are the manufacturers instructions...

LOCTITE Threadlockers | How to apply LOCTITE Threadlocker - Henkel Adhesives North America Using a Loctite Threadlocker

The proper use of the fastener is the best way to go though.

 

[Flattop5]

blue loctite wouldn't have to be used every time the screw was removed/replaced. There is usually residual dried on the threads that will still hold the screw tight.

I used fingernail polish instead, on my rifle scope mounts. Seems to work as good as Locktite.



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[Magload]

Well I tightened it so tight the Allen wrench started to bend. Thought I had it and it nearly fell out the next range trip. To bad S&W didn't use a locking take down wheel like on my Beretta U22. I like this gun and will fix the problem some how. Don

 

[AlwaysArmed]

I wonder if the problem guns screws are bottoming out? The screw will never tighten if it does.
I'm testing mine to 1000 rounds at 50 in./lbs. or I'd do it.
Could someone measure from the shoulder of the cap to the end of the thread and compare it to the shoulder of the trigger guard to the bottom of the threaded hole?
If that's the problem, all that would be needed is to file or grind a little off the end of the screw. S&W could send out new cap screws.

 

[Ed Fowler]

Hi all, I purchased my victory about two weeks ago. I've been to the range twice and both times the retaining screw did come loose. I opened a trouble ticket with SW customer service on monday asking for the torque spec. Here is the reply I received this morning. "Hand tightening should be enough. We do not have a specific spec on that."

That is just plain sad!

 

[AlwaysArmed]

I just finished 1000 rounds today. My take down screw is still tight. I have five magazines and I got the barrel as hot as I could.
There is SOMETHING DIFFERENT from my SW22 to the ones who have problems.

Here is my method...
Clean and lubricate the take down screw using Mass Air Flow Sensor Cleaner to strip the screw and receiver threads clean and use M Pro 7 gun oil to lube the threads. No Loctite.
Tighten to 50 in./lbs. although the take down screw stayed tight at 40 in./lbs. through 500 rounds.
The shoulder of my cap screw is square and flat to the shank.
The resting place for the shoulder of the screw cap inside the frame is clean and flat. No shiny surface in there.
With the frame removed from the slide and barrel, my take down screw goes all the way into the threaded piece in the barrel until the threads end where the unthreaded shank starts.
The gap from the screw cap shoulder to the threaded piece in the barrel is less than the bulkhead in the frame. That means my screw isn't bottoming out before it gets tight.

My take down screw SNAPS when I break it loose.

There has to be something different between my SW22 and the problem pistols.

 

[AlwaysArmed]

Another observation...
There are contact marks where my barrel meets the frame. No contact marks between the slide and the frame.