Are firearm accessories like this really necessary?

[cmort666]

Let me be brutally honest: It is attitudes like yours that give ammunition to our worst opponents, and lead to the very restrictions we oppose the most being passed into law.

My merely BEING a gun owner is all of the "ammunition" they need.

Like the National Socialists, they are maximalists with whom there are no "compromises" to be had. They want what they want, and they are determined to get it, by any means necessary, and no number of capitulations by gun owners will change that.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Thank goodness you're not leading the 5 o'clock news . . .

There's nothing "smart" about conceding the field of battle to a deceitful and implacable foe.

No good will EVER come from allowing the anti-gun cult to set the vocabulary and terms of debate.

Giving the Sudetenland to Hitler didn't avoid WWII.

Giving up ANY firearm or firearm component without a fight won't avoid registration and confiscation.

 

[Arik]

I understand where my fireman friend is coming from. Vast majority of Americans are neither here nor there on guns and gun rights. It's not a cause of theirs but also not an issue. If Mrs Soccer mom thinks someone at the mall can sit on the roof top and spray lead down onto the shoppers at full auto speed (never mind the fact that it can be done with any stock semi auto) she may be persuaded to vote to repeal the 2A without truly understanding what she's voting for because all she understands is "safety". I totally get it.

However, Mrs Soccer mom is always there and gun grabbers will always try to make it relevant to her. Today it's the totally useless slide fire. Tomorrow it's a sniper shooting kids in a playground (already happened in the late 90s). And the next thing we know hunting rifles are WMDs. Every time we back off and say ok we'll let this law in it sets a new standard and also lowers the standard.

But by constantly appeasing Mrs Soccer mom we're going to common sense our way out of the 2A. The only difference is the speed at which it happens.

Personal opinion..... which I have avoided saying up until now..... we're going to get screwed either way. If not now then in 3 years from now. This will surely be brought up by the next candidate regardless of how it turns out now. Even if just the Slide Fire gets banned.


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[Old_Cop]

There is no middle ground in a discussion on firearms with "reasonable" people. The middle ground constantly is shifting to the left. Negotiation is not just giving up stuff, it's getting something too. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. There will be no peace in our time without complete surrender, ask Neville Chamberlain how that worked out. Stick with the facts, not the feelings.

 

[Tom S.]

I am a supporter of the 2nd amendment.

WRONG! You are a supporter of the 2nd amendment only as far you feel it applies to you. Sorry, but that is not a true supporter. Throwing crumbs to lions only keeps you safe until you run out of crumbs, which is to say you can keep giving up certain types of firearms, but it won't satisfy the anti gun crowd. You only have to look at England and Australia to see that.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Knowing how the political system works, and making it work for you, is not appeasing or caving.

Regarding "education"...yeah, I can educate those middle-of-the-road folks on why gun bans are a bad idea. But I can't explain to them why bump stocks and the like are a good idea...and that's the problem.

No need to explain why a bump stock or rubber bands are a good idea.

What should be explained and repeated is what Senator Dianne Feinstein said in an interview on Face The Nation yesterday, that she can think of no law that Congress could pass which would have prevented last week's Las Vegas mass shooting.

Arik's soccer mom doesn't need a tutorial on bump fire, but she does need to know that passing another gun law won't make her any safer.

 

[Arik]

No need to explain why a bump stock or rubber bands are a good idea.

What should be explained and repeated is what Senator Dianne Feinstein said in an interview on Face The Nation yesterday, that she can think of no law that Congress could pass which would have prevented last week's Las Vegas mass shooting.
.

Saw that this morning.

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[Kodiakco]

Let me be brutally honest: It is attitudes like yours that give ammunition to our worst opponents, and lead to the very restrictions we oppose the most being passed into law.

I disagree.

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[raljr1]

WRONG! You are a supporter of the 2nd amendment only as far you feel it applies to you. Sorry, but that is not a true supporter. Throwing crumbs to lions only keeps you safe until you run out of crumbs, which is to say you can keep giving up certain types of firearms, but it won't satisfy the anti gun crowd. You only have to look at England and Australia to see that.

You have certainly misinterpreted my initial post, and I don't think you are in a position to know my mind as to my support of the 2nd amendment. Not that I have to justify it to you or anyone else, But I support the NRA, Gun Owners of America, Natl Association for Gun Rights, and am a member of two local sportsmen's association and one national one. I'm also a PA Hunter Education Instructor.

One of the things we tell students in our Hunter ED classes is that each one of us is a representative of the entire group and most people don't have an strong opinion one way or the other about our hobby, until the meet someone who doesn't respect property or laws. Then they judge the entire group by the actions of the few.

As gun owners, we have a public relations challenge with the general public. When we take the attitude that their impression of us doesn't matter, we set them up to be against us instead of for us.

Winning an argument of any type is as much about your opponents perception and how you use that perception to make your point and garner their support, or at least acceptance of your position, than it is it is about your ability to beat them over the head with your beliefs, or in this case rights.. You don't win support from people by telling them, " I'll do whatever I want regardless of how it makes you feel."

My initial post questioned the things we do individually or as a group, that turn public opinion against us. When it gets shifted far enough to the left, we risk losing this right, in part or altogether. Yes, look at Australia. Don't think it can't happen here.

Interesting perspectives, and I respect the difference of opinion, but I take exception to someone who doesn't know me, thinking they know my level of support for anything, let alone something as important as the 2nd Amendment.

 

[cmort666]

Thank goodness you're not leading the 5 o'clock news . . .

I'd certainly dispel the delusion that gun owners are eager to not BE gun owners and are eagerly awaiting the order to turn in their guns.

If THAT got out, it'd certainly, as the Jamaicans say, "queer the pitch" of the anti-gun cult and it's quislings in the "gun owner" community.

And the undead AHSA yet again claws it's way out of its well deserved grave...

 

[cmort666]

Arik's soccer mom doesn't need a tutorial on bump fire, but she does need to know that passing another gun law won't make her any safer.

She also needs to know that she's being lied to by megalomaniacal sociopaths. Just show her that clip of Nancy Pelosi, over, and over, and over...

 

[BigBill]

The "current social and political climate" regarding historical statues is resulting in violence and even death. I don't 'need' a statue. Tear the damn things down to satisfy the current social and political climate, right?

Boys, once you start bending over for the political climate of the day you might as well just stay bent over.

Yup I agree stay bent over more to follow once the give ups start. The first give up is the foot in the door.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

My initial post questioned the things we do individually or as a group, that turn public opinion against us.

You initial post was about the magazine capacity of a shotgun.

Have you contacted Jerry Miculek to express your concern that he's turning public opinion against "us"?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5QTFvnENRc[/ame]

 

[cmort666]

You initial post was about the magazine capacity of a shotgun.

Have you contacted Jerry Miculek to express your concern that he's turning public opinion against "us"?

23 rounds in 3.73 seconds with a Mossberg 930 shotgun - YouTube

What magazine is that, and do they make one for the Ithaca 37?

 

[raljr1]

You initial post was about the magazine capacity of a shotgun.

Have you contacted Jerry Miculek to express your concern that he's turning public opinion against "us"? =quote]

Actually he could easily shoot 25 rounds out of one of his revolvers in less time than it took the Benelli guy to load the first sleeve of that shotgun in the original post. Maybe I'll call him and tell him not to open carry that thing in the local Wally Mart. LOL

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

What magazine is that, and do they make one for the Ithaca 37?

Looks like an XRAIL same as the OP is protesting.

Ithaca? I don't own an Ithaca so I don't need one. They can ban em for all I care.

RCI-XRAIL | Shotgun High Capacity And Performance Solutions

 

[rockquarry]

Lots of worthless gun gizmos out there that no one needs and I've certainly bought my share, though none in at least twenty-five years.

Folks are entitled to spend wisely or squander their money as they choose. With some accessories, however, there is a dismal truth that many never realize. Some gadgets, like after-market triggers, laser sights, and high-magnification scopes are never substitutes for skill. In fact, some such items may be best utilized by very experienced shooters, probably a very small group.

Many firearms have been well-designed and work quite well straight from the box, as is.

 

[Rastoff]

A man that has to ask if he can own anything doesn't live in a free country.

I'm with the group that says "need" has nothing to do with it. If you want it, and you have the green, you should be able to buy it. It's what you do with it that divides the good from the bad.

I don't want one. It would be crazy heavy when fully loaded. However, I do want you to have the right to get one.

 

[cmort666]

With some accessories, however, there is a dismal truth that many never realize. Some gadgets, like after-market triggers, laser sights, and high-magnification scopes are never substitutes for skill.

I don't know ANYBODY who seriously shoots 1,000 yard NRA rifle who DOESN'T use an after-market trigger or a "high-magnification" scope.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I know a few soccer moms who shoot some crazy stuff. I have to admit I find girls who like guns, and shooting attractive.