Rounds like the speer gold dot and the corbon DPX are above what any .38 special can do but doesn't reach the .357 magnum's potential, which is the point of the "magnum" ad the end of it anyway. You can get 600 Lbs out of a 4 inch full power 357 magnum revolver, but it won't be practical for most I would imagine. I'm guessing this would be where the mid level rounds would make sense. But do they really have enough of a power advantage over a 38 special +p to be worthwhile? I heard about these rounds from this article: Can Less be More If anyone's interested in where I'm coming from with this question. Thanks.
Are mid level power 357's worthwhile?
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Worthwhile for what purpose? Target or defense? I like .38 Special in a revolver for everything except protection purposes. I don't find .357 to be fun to shoot. So loading .357 to .38+p, or somewhat above, levels is worthwhile to me. But if I were buying ammunition, I would just buy .38s for range and practice.
Self defense loads, or "hiking" loads, are a whole other matter.
Self defense loads, or "hiking" loads, are a whole other matter.
Texas Star
US Veteran
This is probably going to be moved to the Ammo section, where you should have posted.
I def. think the light magnums are useful, mainly in snub and three-inch barrels, where the small guns recoil viciously with full loads.
I think the Remington Golden Saber is a top contender, and might be ideal for raccoons, jack rabbits, and maybe coyotes and bobcats at closer ranges. I would prefer full .357 loads on deer, javelina, etc, or for defense against humans while outdoors and in larger guns.
These light .357 loads probably generate more shock than most .38 ammo, and should penetrate enough for the animals mentioned. They'd sure be easier on the hand than full loads. In small .357's, that matters. In a L or N-framed gun or Ruger GP-100 with a barrel four inches to six inches, recpil is much less a factor.
I def. think the light magnums are useful, mainly in snub and three-inch barrels, where the small guns recoil viciously with full loads.
I think the Remington Golden Saber is a top contender, and might be ideal for raccoons, jack rabbits, and maybe coyotes and bobcats at closer ranges. I would prefer full .357 loads on deer, javelina, etc, or for defense against humans while outdoors and in larger guns.
These light .357 loads probably generate more shock than most .38 ammo, and should penetrate enough for the animals mentioned. They'd sure be easier on the hand than full loads. In small .357's, that matters. In a L or N-framed gun or Ruger GP-100 with a barrel four inches to six inches, recpil is much less a factor.
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Seems like it might also be a good answer for K-Frame S&Ws and the issues that have been reported with them. One of the reasons that I like the 547 is that 9x19 is almost exactly between .38 Spl and .357 for power; a .357 load that's in that area (or a little more) would be a good bridge gapper. .38 +P doesn't even get to 9x19 levels, and is barely much more than standard .38.
chp
Member
IMO, yes, for smaller revolvers. In an all steel 4" gun, go for the full house, rattle your teeth, 357!
oberon
Member
My handloads are all somewhere less than full SAAMI spec.
Hotter than .38 specials but not full magnum power.
It is what works best in my equipment. e.g., well placed medium power rounds that handle well are infinitely better than 'phaser blasts' that handle poorly and miss.
However, I have had some other large bore magnums that just loved the high power loads.
Hotter than .38 specials but not full magnum power.
It is what works best in my equipment. e.g., well placed medium power rounds that handle well are infinitely better than 'phaser blasts' that handle poorly and miss.
However, I have had some other large bore magnums that just loved the high power loads.
AveragEd
Member
I really can't get into full-house .357 loads. Six hundred pounds/foot of energy is considered the minimum for whitetail deer hunting and as mentioned above, the .357 manages that at the muzzle, not yards downrange where the deer will be. They also are notorious for full penetration with most standard 158-grain bullets, not a trait you want for self-defense if anything but a solid backstop is present. Why subject yourself to that much muzzle blast and recoil for so little downrange punch when hunting and so much over-penetration in a self-defense situation?
In my .357s, I shoot almost nothing but .38 Special 148-grain lead hollow-base wadcutters for target with a sprinkling of 900fps 158-grain LSWCs thrown in. When hunting with a revolver, I use a .44. I don't live in an area where self-defense is an issue but those full wadcutters would be my choice if I did. They cut a huge hole and almost cannot exit the target and wound or kill an innocent bystander.
Ed
In my .357s, I shoot almost nothing but .38 Special 148-grain lead hollow-base wadcutters for target with a sprinkling of 900fps 158-grain LSWCs thrown in. When hunting with a revolver, I use a .44. I don't live in an area where self-defense is an issue but those full wadcutters would be my choice if I did. They cut a huge hole and almost cannot exit the target and wound or kill an innocent bystander.
Ed
buck460XVR
Member
I shoot my revolvers....a lot. 90% of the ammo used in them is mid-level loads for several reasons. One is they're easier on the gun and they are easier on me. Another is many times I have youth or females with me shooting. The reduced recoil makes shooting my revolvers and my handgun caliber carbines more fun for them. Even with mid-range loads, .44mag and .460 mag can be intimidating. Another is cost. It costs me a tad less to load mid-range loads. Many times mid-range loads are every bit as accurate as full blown magnum loads and thus can be every bit as effective. Many folks shoot reduced recoil loads more accurately than they shoot the full blown magnums for obvious reasons. So my answer is yes, they are worthwhile. While they may not be the ticket for every one and every situation, they do have a place in nearly every shooters range bag.
There's no need to shoot 'max loads' all the time, so, yes, they are 'worthwhile'.
SAFireman
Member
I use 'mid-range' 357 mags in my EDC....I have some barn-burner 125gr JHP and JSP rounds for other uses...I found that the lighter carry guns are really not any fun with the max loads and shot placement is what is going to end the fight, not 4 feet of flame and a sonic boom.
I do really like the big boomers when at the range with my friends...they all get the low end walmart cheap-o stuff....if you could just see their faces when they light off a 'real' round
I do really like the big boomers when at the range with my friends...they all get the low end walmart cheap-o stuff....if you could just see their faces when they light off a 'real' round
Rudi Z
Member
I reload and shoot low velocity .357s (1150-1180 fps) because I enjoy them and so my gun doesn't lead up. However, I also make some rocking 125 grain bullets that are above 1500 fps and enjoy them as well. Its all a matter of what you enjoy to shoot. If you are going to shoot mid-load don't pay a premium for it, instead get into reloading. You can make what you want.
David LaPell
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Yes full house loads have a purpose, especially in .357 Magnum. The problem with full power loads, are you talking today's loads or the old pre-K frame scorcher loads that were 160 grains and 1,500 fps plus from a longer barrel? If you go by the old school loads, then 1,250 fps is the middle of the road. I know I tested out some .357 loads in my 3 1/2 inch Model 27 last year, 125 grain Hornady XTP's and 16.5 grains 2400. The bullets expanded perfectly and stopped in 12 inches of wet newsprint. I think if you were to load those milder they might work great for personal defense. I am working on some 158 grain Speer Gold Dots for a hunting load and I hope they expand as well as advertised, that and my #358156 hollowpoints for whitetails. I am very interested to see how my .38-44 loads with those same Gold Dots expand. I test those in my 3 1/2 Model 27 because they help with some of the velocity loss with three inches of barrel difference between that 6 1/2 inch barreled Outdoorsman.
One little side note is that some bullet makers are listing the velocities where their hollowpoints expand. If I recall the XTP's don't expand until they get to 1,000 fps. I have been fun last year with my Outdoorsman and getting the alloy right with my own hollowpoints. The bullets that expand at 1,250 fps in my Outdoorsman did nothing in my standard or even some +P loads out of my 649. I shot a large woodchuck with my 649 and some of my cast hollowpoints and it was a neat hole in and a neat hole out the other side. I have some soft cast HP's I have yet to test and then some 125 grain Hydrashoks to see what they do.
Basically what you want to do with your gun determines what bullets and loads you are looking for. I like shooting .357 Magnum loads, even one handed the recoil does not bother me much with hotter stuff. I also have a heavier gun like my Model 27, if I had a K frame or L frame I would certainly notice it more and a J-frame would be nothing I would want to shoot my loads through for more than a cylinder or two. For personal defense I would say 1,250 fps would certainly expand with good hollowpoints, if you were hunting I would use a good 158 grain or better SWC, cast HP from the right alloy properly tested, or a good hunting HP like the Gold Dot. I tried even the 140 Leverlution or whatever Hornady calls it in my Model 27 and the expansion was zilch and the penetration was nearly two feet. I would get some good wet newspaper and test everything you carry, whether you hunt with it or not.
125 grain Hornady XTP's with 16.5 grains 2400 after 12 inches of wet newsprint.
150 grain #358156 HP's (50/50 soft lead and wheel weights) at about 1,200 fps after 15 inches in wet newsprint. Edges are very sharp on two outside bullets.
One little side note is that some bullet makers are listing the velocities where their hollowpoints expand. If I recall the XTP's don't expand until they get to 1,000 fps. I have been fun last year with my Outdoorsman and getting the alloy right with my own hollowpoints. The bullets that expand at 1,250 fps in my Outdoorsman did nothing in my standard or even some +P loads out of my 649. I shot a large woodchuck with my 649 and some of my cast hollowpoints and it was a neat hole in and a neat hole out the other side. I have some soft cast HP's I have yet to test and then some 125 grain Hydrashoks to see what they do.
Basically what you want to do with your gun determines what bullets and loads you are looking for. I like shooting .357 Magnum loads, even one handed the recoil does not bother me much with hotter stuff. I also have a heavier gun like my Model 27, if I had a K frame or L frame I would certainly notice it more and a J-frame would be nothing I would want to shoot my loads through for more than a cylinder or two. For personal defense I would say 1,250 fps would certainly expand with good hollowpoints, if you were hunting I would use a good 158 grain or better SWC, cast HP from the right alloy properly tested, or a good hunting HP like the Gold Dot. I tried even the 140 Leverlution or whatever Hornady calls it in my Model 27 and the expansion was zilch and the penetration was nearly two feet. I would get some good wet newspaper and test everything you carry, whether you hunt with it or not.
125 grain Hornady XTP's with 16.5 grains 2400 after 12 inches of wet newsprint.
150 grain #358156 HP's (50/50 soft lead and wheel weights) at about 1,200 fps after 15 inches in wet newsprint. Edges are very sharp on two outside bullets.
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I don't shoot anything less than 158 gr in my lightweight 357 revolvers. The hot 125's are really pushing the K frames. If you want a round for self defense that hits really hard but doesn't over-penetrate you should try Bitteroot's 180 & 200 gr. "bearloads."
First of all, I have read the article mentioned and have all of the late Stephen Camp books. He was a VERY smart writer and knew his guns. In my 19-5 2 1/2" I use the Remington 125 grain Golden Saber mid-range loads for carry use. Several years ago I used them in a 3" 66 for an IDPA match on a steel plate rack at about 7 or so yards and they put those plates down very hard. The cop that that gun origionaly came from also kept it loaded with that same round. It is easy to control out of the 19 and very accurate. Hope that helps!
Jim
Jim
MH8675309
Member
I usually have 357s loaded when I carry but will often pratice with 38s. They are nothing to sneeze at though. I shot a 4'' thick poplar tree with a 38 load at about 15 feet. It went right through the tree.
Groo01
Member
Groo here
Find the load that you can shoot very well, pick the next level up and
shoot ,shoot,shoot.......
The only 357 I find ruff to shoot with full loads is my M60pro.
The sp101 is ported [no problem] Don't shoot K's much
And the L'N'GP size frame are mild...
The trick is to have a grip that fits,, Mine are Pacs and Hogue rubber.
Find the load that you can shoot very well, pick the next level up and
shoot ,shoot,shoot.......
The only 357 I find ruff to shoot with full loads is my M60pro.
The sp101 is ported [no problem] Don't shoot K's much
And the L'N'GP size frame are mild...
The trick is to have a grip that fits,, Mine are Pacs and Hogue rubber.
M3Stuart
Member
OHHHHH YEA!
Shooting .357 in my 2.5" 66 or 2" 60-9; I wouldn't want anything hotter than a mid-power load.
Shooting .357 in my 2.5" 66 or 2" 60-9; I wouldn't want anything hotter than a mid-power load.
Remington 125 grain Golden Saber magnums are my load of choice in my 3" Model 60. Anything more hurts me!
They are all useful
If you are stuck with using factory ammo your choices are limited but yes they are all useful. If I were hunting largish animals, I would use a full bore load. Light rounds are great for target, even by dipping into the .38s power territory. In an SD situation I would want at least a .38 +P type round (and a real +P load not the namby pamby +Ps that are made by the regular companies these days) for use in the home. I don't want to shoot much more than that in the house because I want to keep my hearing and my .357 is very controllable with the stiff .38 loads. Mid-level .357s are great for general shooting/plinking and you usually don't need continuous full bore loads which are wearing on you and possibly the gun you use. In reloading I go across the spectrum. It's nice that the .357 is two guns in one.
If you are stuck with using factory ammo your choices are limited but yes they are all useful. If I were hunting largish animals, I would use a full bore load. Light rounds are great for target, even by dipping into the .38s power territory. In an SD situation I would want at least a .38 +P type round (and a real +P load not the namby pamby +Ps that are made by the regular companies these days) for use in the home. I don't want to shoot much more than that in the house because I want to keep my hearing and my .357 is very controllable with the stiff .38 loads. Mid-level .357s are great for general shooting/plinking and you usually don't need continuous full bore loads which are wearing on you and possibly the gun you use. In reloading I go across the spectrum. It's nice that the .357 is two guns in one.
I don't shoot my .357's much but I do have a Model 640-1 with the 2 1/8" barrel that is a hoot to shoot just after dusk. The ball of flame that comes out of that thing is the size of a basketball!!
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