Are S&W Canted Barrel Problems Getting Less Frequent

[foytfoyt]

Sadly, it looks like they've all thrown QC out the window and are using customers for that purpose, so the quality of gun manufacturer's customer service and repair departments are becoming the measuring stick of a "good" company. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

Exactly how US auto manufacturers acted in the 1980's and prior.

In that case, massive loss of market share resulted in great increases in quality over the next 20 years.

 

[John R]

Sorry but these canted barrels are just piss poor workmanship.

WAKE UP S&W!!!
PULL YOUR HEAD OUT, AND DO IT RIGHT.

 

[BigBill]

Exactly how US auto manufacturers acted in the 1980's and prior.

In that case, massive loss of market share resulted in great increases in quality over the next 20 years.

I haven't purchased a American car because of quality problems since 1999(jeep wrangler) no new Chevy since 1988. Thank God for quality cars from Japan. Hint the American car quality like GM hasn't changed. I'm think a new cobra mustang next. Or a Audi or Subaru awd.

 

[BigBill]

The wanted barrels aren't less frequent it's less buyers with new guns.

 

[DrewN]

Exactly! Here's a photo of what has been described, and the canting:

I just picked up a 69 today and my notch looks even worse than that. The whole shroud has probably 1/8 to 3/16 slop from side to side. One side of the tab is visibly bent outward/downward allowing the movement. Didn't catch it until I got it home, it was a Davidson's and I'd already paid in full. Shocking it made it past QC. It's just tight enough with the cylinder in that I missed it until I was checking a couple speedloaders. With the cylinder open it actually RATTLES.

 

[DocBrick]

I am currently battling Smith and Wesson to get my canted barrel fixed on my 586 Classic Reproduction. It went back to the factory two weeks ago for a canted barrel and a large bur on the frame (poor machining of the frame).

They fixes the bur and reblued the whole gun. Looks great. Barrel is still canted. We will see if they fix it. They called me and said I need to send them pictures, so basically they don't believe me. Pretty frustrating and disgusting for over 800 bucks spent on a revolver.

 

[jamesjames]

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[samwood]

The model 69 I purchased a few months ago had a canted barrel.

Had to adjust the rear sight as far as it would go to the right to get it to shoot to point of aim for windage. The front sight was also too short.

I sent it back to S&W. Problem fixed, but the serrations on the frame and barrel don't line up.

It doesn't bother me; for me it is just a shooter. It shoots great, so the looks don't matter to me much. Others would have a different opinion.

 

[DuncanClan]

Brand New 629 with a Canted Barrel

New to the S&W Forum - It sounds like a lot of folks have had this problem: Well, first of all, I did buy this on Gunbroker, so I guess I deserve it. Picked up my brand new 629 4" yesterday and when I got it home and looked, the barrel was obviously canted off vertical. Being a little OCD about my guns, I freaked out. I called S&W and they told me that their tolerance is now up to 2 degrees off vertical. The barrels are torqued in until the machine detects the right tension - but the tolerance is up to 2 degrees!! He said that the gun had been test fired and the cant should not affect function. I can literally see that the front sight leans over to the right a bit. Drives me crazy. I may take it to a local smith who is very good (pistol smith of the year by the Pistol Smiths Guild several times). Why do I have a feeling that he will do a better job than S&W, even if it does cost me more money. One of the reasons I bought the gun on line is that the price was great for a brand new gun. Guess I know why now. There goes my great price!

 

[Bob1943]

I have looked at over 40 new S&W 686s and 617s during the past year and the number with canted barrels is probably on the order of 50%. So, what you just described with the new tolerance being up to 2 degrees pretty much explains why I was seeing so many canted barrels. Also, the way they put ribbing on top of the frame and the barrel really makes it stand out, i.e., the offset in the ribbing really becomes obvious. Yes, their engineering and manufacturing should be able to do better than this.

 

[bountyhunter]

As some of you may have read, I am on a search for a new Model 617 & Model 29 Classic. For at least the past 6 months, none have been found in the metro Phoenix area. So, the chance of having to order online (if I can find them) is probably the only way that I will be able to get one within the coming year.

My biggest concern in ordering online (i.e., not physically inspecting the gun before I buy it) is getting one that has a canted barrel - see a lot of complaints about this, both with Ruger & S&W. In fact, one of my Ruger GP100s has about a 1-degree cant (over-clocked) on it.

I was in an LGS yesterday and asked to see a new Model 629. Sales person handed it to me and sure enough, there was about a 1 to 2 -degree cant in the barrel.

So, for you guys that have recently bought new S&W revolvers, what kind of luck have you had in getting a barrel that is not either over or under clocked? I am trying to figure out what the chances are of getting a canted barrel on a new gun, maybe 30 to 50%? Too bad that we have to be concerned about a QC issue like this on a new gun.

I think the clocked barrel is a pretty common defect but not the only one I have seen frequently. The last gun I "ordered" was a PC 627 where I stupidly thought the quality should be OK since it came from the PC. It had so many defects I had to work on it a couple of weeks before it was even shootable. I will never buy another new SW but I would certainly not order one where you are stuck with whatever shows up.

 

[Gunhacker]

A couple of months ago, it took going to 3 different shops before I found an M69 that didn't have an issue with either a canted front sight or a loose lock up with the new style detent lock on the yoke.

Prior to that, I bought a 625-8 JM, it had a canted front sight due to barrel over tightening that I did not notice. I had on a pair of single focus "computer" glasses (I normally wear bi-focal) that I had made up specially just for the focal length of looking at computer screens, and I couldn't see how the front sight blade was tilted to the left when looking at it through the rear sight slot.

I bought a Hi-Viz front sight because I didn't care for the gold bead, and it had an issue tilting in the other direction... between the two defects, they ended up canceling each other out and it now has a "normal" sight picture, you can read what I posted about it
here

My LGS has gotten in more S&W revolvers, some are PC models, and this current bunch of about a dozen, it looks to be better, out of the 3 or 4 that I looked at, not a canted barrel to be found and quality was pretty good overall.

 

[Bob1943]

I think the clocked barrel is a pretty common defect but not the only one I have seen frequently. The last gun I "ordered" was a PC 627 where I stupidly thought the quality should be OK since it came from the PC. It had so many defects I had to work on it a couple of weeks before it was even shootable. I will never buy another new SW but I would certainly not order one where you are stuck with whatever shows up.

Very unfortunate that the large demand for guns has caused the manufacturers to lower their QC standards to the level that we are seeing.

There are several new guns that I would love to buy, but they are only available online, not locally. However, I am not willingly to "roll the dice" on an online purchase anymore and then have the hassle of dealing with what comes out of the box.

 

[Fast Doug]

I just bought a 29-10 from Davidsons and when I got home I noticed the barrel was under clocked as the barrel is canted to the right so I called S&W and was told this is the way they are made now and to just adjust the sight and I said no way that I wanted a shipping label it took 3 days for the label to come and I have sent the 29-10 there way. I just hope she comes back with the front sight at 12 o clock.

 

[Bob1943]

I can't believe that the S&W Customer Service reps are giving people that line of BS. As far as I know these guns are not sighted in at the factory, they are only test-fired in a machine to test for safe function. So there is no way that the factory is making that kind of adjustment to get POA to match POI. If they had to sight in every gun at the factory, and then make adjustments, their production rate would fall and the cost per gun would rise.

Furthermore, guns with adjustable rear sights often come out of the box with the rear sight adjusted far left or right. I inquired about that and was told that is the way the sights often come from the sight manufacturer - the gun manufacturer just screws them on the frame and ships the gun that way, again, there is no sighting in at the factory. So, the first thing to do when you get a new gun out of the box is to center the rear sight and make some test shots, from a rest, and then adjust the rear sight as required. In my opinion the "intentional" canted barrel excuse at the factory is BS.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I bought a new 625 Performance Center a few months ago & checked the barrel to see if it was canted first. It appeared to be slightly under-clocked so I figured no problem. Wrong. I have to adjust the windage all the way to the right to center the POI.

It's sad S&W can't take a minute longer to check the alignment before passing it on to the next assembly station. You'd think they'd invest in a modern system that tightens & aligns it considering all the returns they must get.

The two & three piece barrel guns don't have canted barrels because the shroud is indexed/notched to the frame, so you can buy one of those with confidence.

.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I've owned way over 100 guns in my life(am 62)and still have 51 of them.Aprox 50% of them were(are) S&W handguns.I still have the 2 that have such a problem;a model 28 circa 1990 and a model 17 bought in '78.Quick maths: aprox 50S&W and 2 problems=4%quality control issues.As much as I like S&W handguns,that is way too much(when I was working as a national sales director,I'd keep harassing production VPs that accepted quality standards were around .5 of 1%malfunction).
But then,one must look at the cold facts;if I span that 4% over 40 years of buying their products,it comes down to .1 of 1%.
I guess if I'd be national sales director at S&W,I'd have to either change my tune or stiffel!Yes,I'll continue buying their products;still very good value for the price.
But I must add I understand you unlucky guys with such problems!That's where S&W must step in with an excellent aftresale service.And the real question is:are they?
Qc
Qc

 

[S&W Rover]

Dang. I must be lucky -- every S&W revolver I've bought is essentially perfect, including the recently purchased 686-8 with 3" barrel.

I replaced the front sight with a .280 Trijicon white (night sight) dot. The old (black post, red insert) sight was dead-on accurate but the new white dot is a bit easier to see and is perfect too.

And tonight, shooting Hornady 125 grain JHP .357 rounds -- rated at 1500 fps -- was magic. Easily controllable, stout but not painful, and overall just fantastic. This is a round that I think would accomplish most of what you can expect from a self-defense round.

I read enough of these posts to believe that S&W must be letting some guns through with serious defects, particularly the clocked barrel. I may actually be running a greater risk of this because I tend to buy from Bud's, via the internet, so I don't get to inspect the gun first -- although I've never had a problem. But a certain percentage of S&W revolver buyers will have to send their new purchases back to Springfield, Mass for repairs -- which isn't right.

 

[rwsmith]

To my knowledge.....

.....it is still done this way. On the last station of assembly, the gun comes with the barrel torqued. The guy puts the gun in a gun vise and with a padded wrench tightens the barrel to it's 'final' position. No indexing, all done by eyeball. If that last guy's eyeball is not so good, the barrel is off. As far as I know there is no 'inspection' after this. They test fire it and ship it.

 

[Owly]

I guess I got pretty lucky... in that regard. My new 686+ Talo has a perfectly indexed barrel. Unfortunately, the gun suffers from light strikes and cylinder binding. As such, it's currently back at the mothership.
Come on S&W!!! We spend our hard earned cash on these guns and expect to get a quality product.