Are you willing to spend $50,000 to defend your life?

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Fifteen years ago I took a training class with the title of The Art of Concealed Carry. One half of the class time was spent on the finer points of small arms management and tactics during the employment of one's handgun of choice in a perceived self-defense situation. The other half of the class was devoted to the legal ramifications of choosing to carry a handgun in a concealed manner and what to expect the legal system reaction to be in the unfortunate event one did in fact have to shoot at another human being.

The legal information was presented by a criminal defense attorney who was experienced in the defense of citizens caught up in the legal entanglement of a self-defense shooting aftermath. He was a competitive shooter himself and had quite a bit of boots on the ground experience in this field.

One of the more eye opening points he made was that if you shot somebody in your honest belief that you were facing an imminent and unavoidable threat of death or serious bodily injury and the person doing the threatening had the ability, opportunity and jeopardy to carry out the threat then you should expect to face legal bills of at least $50,000 if the shooting was determined by the legal "reasonable person" standard to be an honest to God case of the necessity of employment of lethal force in an effort to save your life or that of a member of your family. He went on to say that if the police and prosecuting authorities believed that there was in fact anything "hinky" about the circumstances surround the underlining facts of the shooting situation then you should not be at all surprised to face a legal bill starting at $200,000 and quickly escalating from that point onward.

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. once stated that "courts are courts of law and not courts of justice.". The class defense attorney was trying to make the point that even if you were legitimately defending your life you should expect to pay a rather steep fiduciary price for the implementation and execution of your belief that you acted upon.

Mr. Grant Cunningham sent out a link this week to a article written by Mr. Greg Ellifritz:

The Gas Station Clerk | Active Response Training

Mr. Ellifritz is a LEO who also trains both police and citizens in the management of small arms. I found it interesting that in this article the $50,000 figure again raises its head as the entry level cost of involvement in a perceived self-defense shooting situation.

Even if you are completely right to fight for the life of yourself and family you will at the very least pay a measurable price for doing so. This again drives home the point that it really behooves one to practice situational awareness and avoidance when out and about in the public venue as well as in one's home. It seems to me that I would rather prefer not getting into a deadly force affray if at all possible as opposed to becoming another victim of a judicial system that really does not care whether my heart was pure or not.

Every individual has to appraise the costs that can occur in a self-defense situation and decide for themselves what they believe is the correct course of action to take in one of these incidents. This is another case of there not being a one size fits all solution to this situation. In the proverbial cold light of dawn the only opinion that really carries any weight is the one arrived at by the individual who will have to live with the consequences of that decision. In view of the severity of the potential penalties that can accrue from defending oneself it certainly would seem to merit some calm rational thought analysis on the part of one who has freely chosen to carry concealed on a daily basis.

Harry
 
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Well................... "You can't take it with you!"

...............which could be the alternative when faced with the threat of death or serious bodily injury.

:D
 
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It's all about perspective...

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:D
 
If you're too concerned about how much it might cost you to defend your life--don't! Look at all the money you will save.

As for every justifiable shooting costing $50,000, I call horse hockey. I'm sure all of these dear old grandmas who shoot an intruder with Papa's old .38 had to cough up $50,000.

Scare tactics.
 
If you're too concerned about how much it might cost you to defend your life--don't! Look at all the money you will save.

As for every justifiable shooting costing $50,000, I call horse hockey. I'm sure all of these dear old grandmas who shoot an intruder with Papa's old .38 had to cough up $50,000.

Scare tactics.

I agree.

I've investigated plenty of shootings that turned out to be self defense. I've never been contacted about testifying in any of them. I certainly would have been if there was a lawsuit since I was the lead investigator. They sure weren't shy about tracking me down for DUI fatalities and other suspicious deaths.

I know and like a lot of lawyers, but I sure wouldn't take their advice on whether I need a lawyer on retainer.
 
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...[all of Harry's post]....

It's an interesting question, but I don't think the two events are as equivalent as the story tries to make them.

If Tina has a life ending disease, not giving her $50K most likely wouldn't have any effect on you, beyond maybe some guilt, other than a casual acquaintance dying.

You know Tina. She's working, so you know she's supposed to be in the gas station. It's not the same as seeing two strangers in an alley. If you don't immediately address the armed gunman right in front of you, your life may be at risk too. There's no guarantee he won't see you and shoot you before you can get out of the gas station. If he's willing to kill Tina, and he gets away, he may come back. You or your family may be the victim next time. Shooting the gunman isn't just about Tina. It's about you, too.

That's my thought anyway.
 
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As for every justifiable shooting costing $50,000, I call horse hockey. I'm sure all of these dear old grandmas who shoot an intruder with Papa's old .38 had to cough up $50,000.

Scare tactics.

Nobody ever said every shooting is going to cost that much, but the potential is there, and there have been instances where someone defending themselves had to pay for legal expenses related to criminal and/or civil actions.

If you don't want to prepare for that possibility, then don't. Hopefully, you'll never have to find out.

As for me, I don't trust hope.
 
Not a realistic post!

OP is apparently drinking the koolade of lawyers wanting business.

That said, having carried a gun for far more than half my life (professionally and as an armed citizen) I have and will OWN my actions, always.

See you in court.
 
So what's your point, Harrychristopher? We shouldn't carry guns or defend ourselves because we may incur $50k in legal fees if we do? Considering the alternative in a life or death confrontation that's a bill I'd be happy to be around to pay.
 
If you're too concerned about how much it might cost you to defend your life--don't! Look at all the money you will save.

As for every justifiable shooting costing $50,000, I call horse hockey. I'm sure all of these dear old grandmas who shoot an intruder with Papa's old .38 had to cough up $50,000.

Scare tactics.
Absolutly

In response to the OPs $50,000 claim, it is jurisdiction dependent. We have 50 states with 50 different views on the use of deadly force in defense of one self and those around him. So there is no way to make such a sweeping blanket statement.

In NYC, they probably seize your firearm and haul you off in cuffs for the night

In Hungry Horse Montana, they probably send you home and tell you to drop by the station in the morning to fill out the report

But I have to admit, from a capitalistic standpoint, the guy that initially convinced millions upon millions of Americans to each send him $10+ per month was pretty clever.
 
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So what's your point, Harrychristopher? We shouldn't carry guns or defend ourselves because we may incur $50k in legal fees if we do? Considering the alternative in a life or death confrontation that's a bill I'd be happy to be around to pay.

i found Mr. Ellifritz's article to be of interest because it raised a scenario that I had not thought of before. If you are fortunate to reside in a state with constitutional carry than there is a decent chance that you may not have to face the same degree of legal unpleasantness that individuals who reside in a highly regimented state may in fact have to face in the aftermath of a similar situation.

I have had a License to Carry in one of the most restrictive states for 44 years and have carried both in a professional capacity as well as just a normal citizen. The laws in the restrictive states of which there are still quite a few in existence change on a regular basis. If one lives in that sort of state than it is helpful to have advanced knowledge of what to expect in a self-defense shooting aftermath.

You might find the writings of Massad Ayoob and Andrew Branca to be of value as they address their extensive experience in actual self-defense cases that have taken place all over this country. It is my understanding that the author of the referenced article Mr. Ellifritz is a sworn LEO as well as a police firearms trainer in the state of Ohio. I think he has raised some points that are worth considering in the context of citizen concealed carry.

Yes I carry in a concealed capacity on a daily basis and yes I certainly believe in the right of armed self-defense. I also believe that an intelligent appraisal of the political and legal climate of the geographical area one is carrying in is just as important as a competent degree of management of one's choice in small arms as that knowledge can help one avoid a lot of expensive unpleasantness if one is unfortunate to have to shoot for their life.

Harry
 
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