Arrowhead collections

[Brian41]

Wow some really nice relics posted here. There is a high end antique shop in a town near here that has quite the collection for sale and I was shocked at the high asking prices of them. Seems as if they are worth some serious money anymore and good on those that have collected them too.

 

[tbgunner88]

Thanks for all the info Nick, very kind of you to take the time to share your knowledge with us.

 

[tbgunner88]

After seeing some of these other pictures and thinking back, it's hard to tell how many artifacts we thought were just rocks or were just formed and weathered into the shape they were in and just passed them by. I remember several things catching my attention and even picking some up and keeping them, the only one I can find at the moment is the one pictured below, it was found in the same field as the points in my original post, maybe Nick will know if it and the other things I remember had a purpose or if they really were just funny shaped rocks.

 

[vigil617]

Here is a piece I was especially excited to find.



Only one small corner of it was visible when I noticed it while walking across a plowed field during a quail hunt with my grandfather. I immediately recognized its color and its worked edge, as my dad had introduced me to arrowhead hunting several years earlier when I was a boy, and there were several good sites near our home in eastern North Carolina.

I thought this piece was going to be a nice arrowhead when I grasped it and pulled it....and pulled it....and pulled it out of the ground, and couldn't believe its size and intactness. I thought it must be an axe head, or some sort of agricultural tool, but never knew for sure until a few years later.

I took it to our state's Museum of History in Raleigh, where the staff archaeologist identified it as a rough-hewn piece that would later have been finished into a tool of the owner's choosing, depending on need. It is of the chert family, of which flint is a member, and is not native to the area of our state where I found it.

Thus, he surmised that this was likely a trading piece from upstate, where chert is commonly found, and its maker would have probably carried these for barter with those would would not have had access to the material otherwise.

I think I remember him estimating it at 3,000 - 5,000 years old or so.

I like holding it now and then, and trying to wrap my head around the fact that an ancient person held it in his own hand at some point in the distant past.

 

[Rangerpat]

tbgunner88,
I've never seen anything like that before, it looks like some type of grain crushing tool or else a petrified mushroom

I hope Paleo Nick can ID it for you.

Thanks for sharing the pictures of it!

 

[gunnails]

I would like to submit some of my treasures.

All of these were found in central, eastern or southern Oregon

Kind of chopped the picture, but the top ones are blanks or discards I believe, of course these are all made from obsidian.

We were camping in Harney County Oregon and found these rocks that Mother called Mano Pate(?) near the edge of Harney Lake which was low at the time and would often be high enough that these rocks were submerged for long periods.

I was with mother and we were kicking around looking for arrow heads a couple are pictured above when for some unknown reason I turned over this rock.

And low and behold the greatest find Mother and I ever had.

I keep it on the hearth of my fireplace and I truly treasure it as a reminder of a good day with Mom. She is nuts about anything Indian or old. At least a couple of dozen more arrow heads that mom still has at her place, some are possibly knives as they are about 4" long.

 

[Paleo Nick]

Keith.44,

Your Dovetails are Early Archaic, Dovetails have been found in stratified context, which has been dated to 9,300 years ago. Dovetails cease to be made by about 7,000 years ago.

They circulated in the East-Central U.S.A., but not along the Atlantic or Gulf coasts, seems to have been an interior phenomenon, the further north or south you look, the fewer Dovetails.

Like most point-types, they can be found in all sizes, however, they are almost always large, and were probably more knife than projectile. Yours were almost certainly knives, and two of them have been re-sharpened, but still have a lot of use left in them. The one on the far right is absolutely mint, it has never been re-sharpened. All of them were lost rather than discarded.

Dovetails are among the most sought after points, collectors pay high prices for fine examples. I don't like to put dollar values on artifacts, but yours would bring about $600 apiece. I don't know what an "RM" is, but I would not sell THOSE points in order to buy an RM. Your Dovetails are museum quality.

 

[soFlaNative]

Hey, let's not keep Nick up all night talking shop, like the physician whose neighbors keep saying, "Hey Doc, I got this pain in my arse, what could it be?".

 

[Paleo Nick]

Revho,

what a fantastic group of CELTS, a celt does not have any special provisions for hafting, an AXE does, you have one axe.

It is extremely difficult to date ground stone tools, because they look pretty much the same, no matter the time period. They are, though, very rare at Paleo sites, but not from the Archaic on, and are particularly plentiful in the WOODLAND and MISSISSIPPIAN periods.

Your group of celts is nice because they're all a little different, kind of like all the different hammers we have today. While there is no formal provision for hafting, celts probably were hafted, however, they can easily be used by hand alone, albeit with less efficiency. Not all celts are double-sided, they were made in all sorts of combinations, yours have a "ball-peen" side and a "mason's hammer" side.

Ground stone tools aren't generally used to cut and chop, and they are almost always made from material that cannot be chipped like the materials used for knives. To use chert or jasper, quartzite, obsidian, etc., as an "impact transfer material" would mean the destruction of the tool. Point material makes lousy hammer material, and hammer material makes downright impossible material for a point.

The one item, which I call "spokeshave", may well be a worn out axe, and that groove was for hafting. What do the ends look like? Lot of impact evidence? What's the groove look like, is it configured smooth to accept cordage, or sharp to facilitate spokeshaving small diameter shafts made of wood?

Your oldest blade, would be the Brewerton Side-Notch, it'd be Early Archaic. The youngest would be the Hopewell's. Hopewell is Woodland period, very well documented, and very famous. The others of your points I'm still trying to figure out, and I will keep you updated.

What a fantastic little group of celts.

 

[revho]

Wow, thats a ton of info! Thanks Nick. I will try to get a couple more pictures of that Spokeshave as well as that large stone (grinding) with the indents and flat sides with a measuring tape or a playing card by it for size reference.

 

[Paleo Nick]

My pleasure. Glad to help out. Regarding the flat with the indent, at first, I thought it was an anvil, but, anvils don't generally have that much care in manufacture, anvils were any convenient rock. It has the wear pattern of an anvil, but not the "build." Next thought was, "nutcracker", but, most nutcrackers have multiple indents, they'd crack several at once, mostly walnut and hickory. Too shallow for a "paint-pot"...

 

[revho]

Here is some more of the same to help.

 

[revho]

 

[rcnixon]

I have never found an arrowhead despite being fairly perceptive. Now, the father of a girlhood friend of my daughter could stroll along through a field, kick the dirt and turn up a point. He had a magnificent collection. He is partly of native background and I told him one day that the fathers sent the points his way so he could care for them and keep them. He thought that was a pretty good idea.

Russ

 

[Paleo Nick]

Nick, these came from northern AZ around the Peach Springs area. The large one in the center (3.5") was found near the entrance to Cathedral cave near Ashfork. AZ.

I'm back, haven't forgotten all of you, and my promise.

LostInTheOzone. Here's what I think you have:

Of course my opinion is open for debate, I've certainly no monopoly on the truth regarding this subject, but then, neither does anybody else. I wish somebody did, because it'd clear up a bunch of mysteries, and create new ones.

The "coolest" point in your group is the Angostura, if indeed it is one, and it sure looks like one. Angostura's have absolutely exquisite flaking technique and pattern, they're always made from extremely high quality material, often as not, obsidian. Look at the flaking pattern, compare it to that seen on your other points, you SHOULD see an obvious difference, if indeed it is an Angostura. It'd be kind of small for the type, but the proportions are absolutely Angosturan, so is the material, so is the location of the find. Again, see if you can discern an absolute difference in the flaking style, as opposed to that seen on your other points.

The large point, in the center of the picture, looks like a Cortero, and has provenance, Cathedral Cave. A girl by the name of Cristin Embree is much involved at Cathedral Cave, it's the subject of her doctoral dissertation, Northern Arizona University (?). You should send her an e-mail, regarding your point, because it's another "data point" and she can note the material, and exact style, etc.

Hope this was helpful....beautiful little Angostura (?)

 

[LostintheOzone]

I'm back, haven't forgotten all of you, and my promise.

LostInTheOzone. Here's what I think you have:

Of course my opinion is open for debate, I've certainly no monopoly on the truth regarding this subject, but then, neither does anybody else. I wish somebody did, because it'd clear up a bunch of mysteries, and create new ones.

The "coolest" point in your group is the Angostura, if indeed it is one, and it sure looks like one. Angostura's have absolutely exquisite flaking technique and pattern, they're always made from extremely high quality material, often as not, obsidian. Look at the flaking pattern, compare it to that seen on your other points, you SHOULD see an obvious difference, if indeed it is an Angostura. It'd be kind of small for the type, but the proportions are absolutely Angosturan, so is the material, so is the location of the find. Again, see if you can discern an absolute difference in the flaking style, as opposed to that seen on your other points.

The large point, in the center of the picture, looks like a Cortero, and has provenance, Cathedral Cave. A girl by the name of Cristin Embree is much involved at Cathedral Cave, it's the subject of her doctoral dissertation, Northern Arizona University (?). You should send her an e-mail, regarding your point, because it's another "data point" and she can note the material, and exact style, etc.

Hope this was helpful....beautiful little Angostura (?)

Thanks Nick. Never could imagine any of them could be that old. I always assumed they were 3 or 4 hundred years old but it looks like at least one may be thousands of years old.

 

[Pherfinion]

Have Been Collecting For Years

I have a fairly modest collection that I started when I was about 9 or so up on my grandfathers farm in Sabula, Iowa. I would walk behind his horse team while plowing and pick up what I could (yeah, he used horses!), although I could find them better after it had rained a bit. That area of Iowa was rich in history from the Fox and Blackhawk nations.

I had taken a few photos of my collection which I keep in a glass top coffee table... unfortunately, I couldn't locate but one close up that I used as a background for a photo I took of my Kimber Pro Carry years ago. The bone handled knife with the turkey tail blade was authenticated my the paleo department of the Milwaukee Public Museum. If I remember correctly, they associated it with the "red ocher culture" that used to inhabit SE Wisconsin some time ago. Also have a "turkey tail" that looks exactly like the one on the knife but which is broken in half---they call that kind of find a "heart breaker". Found it about 50 feet from the house along with several others

My uncle also had a farm up around Maquoketa, Iowa.... he was an old bachelor type of recluse that kept a gun at every window and door and I remember him having 5 gallon pails full of artifacts (of which I inherited several). The first gun I shot was his 10 ga. double barrel Damascus barreled twin hammer shotgun. The stock was held on with baling wire! That thing did have a kick!

 

[Paleo Nick]

LostInTheOzone, sorry, posted the wrong picture, here is the real one.

 

[chaparrito]

I did my undergrad and MS in SW anthropology/archaeology. My wife is a full blooded member of one of our state's tribes. We have a small, un-excavated, but heavily pothunted in the 19th C. ruin on our property. The people who inhabited this site were the ancestors of my wife's culture. It's in the 1100-1400 A.D. age range. I don't pick things up any more. The wife would advise you pickers to leave something in return for whatever you take. A pinch of tobacco or cornmeal and some small words of respectful thanks. Possible bad juju if you don't. Boning up on the federal antiquities act is probably a good plan for any serious relic hunters as well. REAL bad juju there.

 

[Brian41]

Wow you have some nice relics pictured and enjoy seeing them too. I was in a high end antique shop in Holly, Michigan a few years ago and they had quite the collection of Indian artifacts. Most had information with them on what they were and where they came from and age. Some arrows, tomahawks and other such things still had the wood and ties they were made with. Of course they were later examples but impressive just the same.
I left there with nothing as the prices were sky high too. Not saying they weren't worth it but beyond my budget.