ATF attempting to come after private sellers...
- Thread starter Magnum_PI
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jrm53
Member
Private gun sales to be banned?
I got an email today saying the president was going to ban private sales of firearms. Jeff
I got an email today saying the president was going to ban private sales of firearms. Jeff
There's already a tread running on this. You can read it here:
ATF attempting to come after private sellers...
ATF attempting to come after private sellers...
NFrameFred
Member
Not discounting the propensity of leftist pin heads to grasp at such straws, it begs the questions of private property, interstate commerce (that they've used to wedge their fat toes in the door with before) state's rights, and I'm sure a bunch of other salient points that have to note that the power to pass laws falls within the purview of legislatures, not government agencies.
No doubt there are those who drool like Pavlov's dog at the prospects, but I won't get too worked up over it at this time.
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No doubt there are those who drool like Pavlov's dog at the prospects, but I won't get too worked up over it at this time.
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No it doesn't say.
The most common reasons I've heard are (no particular order)
Transferring a firearm before the end of the 3 business day hold on delayed transactions.
Transferring a firearm more than 30 days after the NICS check
Failure to report multiple handgun sales by end of business day.
Failure to respond to firearm trace requests.
Accepting expired handgun permits (in states that allow them to bypass NICS.
You can read the “FACT SHEET” in all its glory here
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...usg=AOvVaw3qi6fdAI0pF3GGRSL6DYSw&opi=89978449
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...usg=AOvVaw3qi6fdAI0pF3GGRSL6DYSw&opi=89978449
To put those numbers in retrospect to the number of FFL dealers in those states.......Approximately 10,000 licensed dealers.
Rodan
Member
Some highlights of those things that would presumptively indicate you were "engaged in the business" and require you to have an FFL:
I would guess that covers more than a few folks on this forum engaged in the collecting of S&Ws.
I would guess that covers more than a few folks on this forum engaged in the collecting of S&Ws.
Puller
Member
To be honest, the basis of the bill, (I haven't read every sentence), I have no problem with. In my state, we go through an FFL for every handgun transaction. That being said, when I attend shows out of state and watch one guy just handing his handgun to someone he doesn't know, it's frightening. I've been in law enforcement. There's no background checks being done in that state. Maybe that is a loophole where felons are buying guns and if so, should be stopped. I sell to and from an FFL in my state, always have, keep records, and have no trouble doing so. If it helps stop bad guys from getting their hands on one, so be it. Just my opinion, of course. I'm a gunny, but a law abiding one.
Please don't call me Karen!!!
I respect your view, but I don't happen to share them. My concern is too many law abiding gun owners are willing to compromise until we can no longer legally own guns. Then you will have to decide to be an illegal gunny or no gunny at all.
From whom was this email? Was it from a legitimate news organization or otherwise credible source? Or was it from, or on behalf of, a candidate for election or some other partisan political source?
Both sides of the aisle play this game. They reach out to potential supporters to claim the sky will fall unless they get campaign contributions. Or they will introduce legislation they know will never be enacted so they can claim they're "fighting for you". It's despicable, but it continues because it works...
My post "What On Earth"....
...which is now in the 'other guns and knives' forum could have been posted here except it wasn't about a specific legislation.
Some relatives in Florida that run pawn shops got closed down for a 'straw purchase' that happened in thier store. This came just as I was complaing about having my gun 'inspected' at the range to see if it had a 'pistol brace'.
After finding legislation to outlaw guns impractical, the ATF is taking EVERY opportunity tp close down anything to do with stores, ranges, dealers and gun owners.
...which is now in the 'other guns and knives' forum could have been posted here except it wasn't about a specific legislation.
Some relatives in Florida that run pawn shops got closed down for a 'straw purchase' that happened in thier store. This came just as I was complaing about having my gun 'inspected' at the range to see if it had a 'pistol brace'.
After finding legislation to outlaw guns impractical, the ATF is taking EVERY opportunity tp close down anything to do with stores, ranges, dealers and gun owners.
smithra_66
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I doubt this would stand up to SCOTUS examination, BUT, you get what you vote for.
That is untrue. See the Whitehouse link in Ladder13's post. Here's an excerpt:
...If you have a gun you no longer need, and you want to sell it to your family member, you do not need a license to sell it. If you buy and sell curios or relics or “collectible” personal firearms as a hobby, again, you do not need a license. But, if you are offering a firearm for sale to make money, and telling a customer that you can purchase and sell him additional firearms, you would presumptively need a license—and need to run background checks. The same is true if you repetitively offer for resale firearms within 30 days of when you purchased them...."
I think the part of the proposed rule defining what a gun dealer is that would affect some here is the classification of anyone renting a table at a gun show as a gun dealer.
The Whitehouse statement notes that the rule proposal is open for public comments at the Justice Department, so best to express disagreement if we disagree with all or part of the proposed rule.
Doesn’t smell constitutional. Hopefully it quickly gets challenged and shot down like the rest of their silliness.
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We gunnies always say that anti-gun laws only apply to law-abiding gun owners because criminals don't follow the rules and get guns on their own, but we law-abiding folk are stuck with the laws. Well, if you are selling a gun to someone without a criminal check, aren't you risking being the way criminals get guns? I think so. If you want to be a part of getting guns to criminals, that's on you. I don't, and won't, period. I believe ALL gun owners have a LOT of responsibility, but we leave guns in our cars, in our glass cabinets at home, brag online how many guns we own, carry while under the influence, carry in public view where the guns can be taken from us, and on and on. Add to that currently in some states, we actually sell guns to people we couldn't even imagine could have a record, but might. Not me. Not me. It's like drinking and driving. You say, "IT'S MY RIGHT TO DRINK!" Sure it is, until you get behind the wheel and pull out on the road. Storing and carrying a loaded firearm should be considered the same. It could quickly become a deadly hazard that you are responsible for. I've been buying and selling through an FFL for decades, NO PROBLEM. We go through notaries to transfer motor vehicles. We go through notaries and banks and many times relators to transfer property. I say, for responsibility sake in the 21st century, go through an FFL for all gun sales. What are you afraid of? No one is proposing stopping transferring guns.
Karen
Karen
I say, for responsibility sake in the 21st century, go through an FFL for all gun sales. What are you afraid of? No one is proposing stopping transferring guns.
Karen
@David Baird you go first. You have never directly answered my question in post 47 as too why you are “frightened” (your word) of me buying a firearm without a background check.
I use an FFL to sell, and buy, my firearms. My choice. I believe the concern over UBC are the eventual steps toward registration of firearms. Without a comprehensive firearm registration database to start from, thereby providing tracking to the government, one could still circumvent the requirement and sell/buy outside the “law”. UBC, like “Red Flag laws, maybe a good concept but the devil is in the details and the execution is primed for overreach and abuse as can be seen in a number of states.
bushmaster1313
Member
Here is my take:
1) There are truly nasty bad actors who need to be prosecuted and put in jail.
2) It can be very difficult to prove that someone committed a crime with the intent needed to obtain a guilty verdict from a jury or for a conviction to stand up on appeal.
Enter the BATFE. By setting up rules and regulations for firearm dealers and firearm purchasers, it becomes much, much easier to obtain indictments and convictions.
Ordinarily, ordinary law abiding citizens have nothing to worry about from these rules and regulations. However, they can be a trap for the unwary, and with an overzealous prosecutor even honest mistakes can get an honest person into a world of hurt.
Be careful out there.
1) There are truly nasty bad actors who need to be prosecuted and put in jail.
2) It can be very difficult to prove that someone committed a crime with the intent needed to obtain a guilty verdict from a jury or for a conviction to stand up on appeal.
Enter the BATFE. By setting up rules and regulations for firearm dealers and firearm purchasers, it becomes much, much easier to obtain indictments and convictions.
Ordinarily, ordinary law abiding citizens have nothing to worry about from these rules and regulations. However, they can be a trap for the unwary, and with an overzealous prosecutor even honest mistakes can get an honest person into a world of hurt.
Be careful out there.
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