Automatic Knives - Pros / Cons

There are a few autos that appeal to me:
Buck 110 auto, either a conversion or from the factory.
Boker Kalashnikov because Kalashnikov
Mikov lever lock
Frank Beltrame Italian stiletto.
I probably wouldn't carry one (never say never), so I wouldn't go to any trouble or expense to own one. A manual Axis is as fast, or at least close enough as to make no difference. I don't have the objection to assisted knives that a lot of guys do, but my assisted knives are not any faster than an Axis knife. Autos, assisted knives, and in fact most OHOs end up as fidget toys on my desk.

Of more interest to me is finding ways to pocket carry small fixed blades, say 6-7" overall.
 
I like auto knives, but in my state some police officers interpret them as "switchblades", which are illegal here. Half-serrated blades can also get you in trouble, again depending upon the officer's discretion.
 
Whether you feel/think, or actually need a push button/auto/electric pocket knife is a personal issue. Your local laws determine if it is legal. My input is based on past experience. I am retired now but when I was flying for a living and in/out, on/off military bases, in multiple cities/states on daily/weekly trips I had to purposely research and be aware of the local knife as well as gun laws. If you travel in/out of knife restricted/prohibited jurisdictions you need a place to swap/remove your choice of weapons. When you travel across these lines of demarcation frequently, you must be aware that political attitudes can play into enforcement. You can end up across a state or city boundary by simply missing an exit or crossing a bridge. In some cases you must think before you leave your hotel room about the laws across the street. If you fly, never travel without a bag to check! Failure to do this will eventually cost you a knife. To this day I carry an electric (I like the term) pocket knife but there is a manual Spiderco (Police Model) available in my go bag. Yea, I know I'm retired but there is still a bag packed.
 
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I picked up a few autos, kept them locked in the safe while they were illegal here. Ironically, now that they are legal, mine are still in the safe. I've found my Kershaw Blur and Leek spring assisted openers deploy as fast as any of the autos, are higher quality, and are much more versatile.
 
Montana recently changed its antiquated law so that auto knives are legal. Before you had to have the local sheriff sign you off as a collector. I once has a razor sharp auto come unlocked and part way open in my pants pocket. Sliced the end of my finger. With a spring assist I give the blade a bit of movement and it pops open. With an auto I have to slide the lock then press the button. Assist I just fold closed. Auto close and lock.
 
Me? Never. And the vast majority of the American public won't do something that's illegal, even if they have no chance of being caught. How many have cut the tag off their mattress? I'll admit that I regularly ride the edge on my home turf, but it's a rural area that wants to be a city, and I'm pretty well known amongst those with guns, badges, and robes around here. But I always look at these laws as being add ons once you have the attention of authorities. End up in an auto accident where you're unconscious and transported by ambulance? Paramedic to officer: "Hey, look what's in his pocket . . . " Things of that sort.

Just wondering how many of you have ever been approached by a police officer who asked to take a look at your pocketknife?
If I'm not flying on airlines I don't worry about what knife I've got in my pocket.
 
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I agree 100% with the add on part and the home field advantage.

If I fill my truck full of diesel, forget to pay and drive off, unless it was a brand new cashier, nobody is calling the cops. Even it they did, they would just make me go back and pay. If not, next time I was at the corner they would tell me to pay up. You on the other had better remember to pay. Would I do that in the bigger city down the line. NO.

I carried an auto knife off and on without a written statement from the sheriff that I was a collector. But, I had talked to him about it and he said it was fine and he didn't care.

But, then if I ever stuck somebody with it, I had better be way in the right. Even if you didn't use it, but, were driving down the road drunk and being a Richard Cranium when you got pulled over, I am sure it may have added to your problems

Know your laws, know the way the wind blows where you are.

I know that here that a cop wouldn't dream of asking what was in your pocket, unless he had a problem way more serious than what kind of knife you carry. Most everyone has a knife in the first place.
 
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Me? Never. And the vast majority of the American public won't do something that's illegal, even if they have no chance of being caught. How many have cut the tag off their mattress? I'll admit that I regularly ride the edge on my home turf, but it's a rural area that wants to be a city, and I'm pretty well known amongst those with guns, badges, and robes around here. But I always look at these laws as being add ons once you have the attention of authorities. End up in an auto accident where you're unconscious and transported by ambulance? Paramedic to officer: "Hey, look what's in his pocket . . . " Things of that sort.
First of all, it is not illegal to cut the tag off your mattress. Go read the tag: it says "illegal to remove except by the consumer". If you own the mattress you can cut the tag off if you want to.

I'm not one to necessarily promote breaking laws, but I worry less about what kind of knife I have in my pocket than I do driving 56 mph in a 55 mph zone.
 
That's interesting because whenever I hear/read the term "switchblade" my first thought is of Italian stilettos. I think of "automatic knife" as a more broad category.

Just semantics, I guess. But I'm always up for semantics.

*hides*

Is there a difference between switchblade, automatic, and spring-assist knives? I was told by someone in law enforcement here that spring assist knives are legal in PA. I bought a few here in Pittsburgh at a local Graingers, so I assumed they were legal to own. You have to close them manually and there is a safety on them. I bought what I guess is a switchblade in Virginia; push a button, the blade comes straight out. Push it again, the blade retracts. I DON'T think it's legal here, and I'll never be caught with it outside my home.
 
All switchblades are automatic, not all automatics are switchblades. You have an Out the Front automatic, commonly termed an OTF. Spring assisted openers require you to start the opening of the blade with your thumb. Some will open by inertia if you flick your wrists. Switchblades open from th e side with a button . . .

Is there a difference between switchblade, automatic, and spring-assist knives? I was told by someone in law enforcement here that spring assist knives are legal in PA. I bought a few here in Pittsburgh at a local Graingers, so I assumed they were legal to own. You have to close them manually and there is a safety on them. I bought what I guess is a switchblade in Virginia; push a button, the blade comes straight out. Push it again, the blade retracts. I DON'T think it's legal here, and I'll never be caught with it outside my home.
 
.../

/... I think that NC's knife laws complicate auto knife EDC. Setting that issue aside,.../

/...

Let's not set that aside, as it's a great example of some of the potential pitfalls.

First, in NC a concealed handgun permits limits you to carrying a handgun, and does not apply to any other firearm type or other weapon, like a knife:

§ 14-269. Carrying concealed weapons.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his or her person any bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slung shot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles, razor, shuriken, stun gun, or other deadly weapon of like kind, except when the person is on the person's own premises.

(a2) This prohibition does not apply to a person who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25, provided the weapon is a handgun, is in a closed compartment or container within the person's locked vehicle, and the vehicle is in a parking area that is owned or leased by State government. A person may unlock the vehicle to enter or exit the vehicle, provided the handgun remains in the closed compartment at all times and the vehicle is locked immediately following the entrance or exit.


However, NC also allows for legitimate use as a defense against prosecution. However, it's conjunctive, meaning all of the elements must be true, and that that last line is the kicker as it makes it an affirmative defense. In other words, you may successfully defend the charge, but it won't prevent your arrest - just your conviction, and that can still cost you a lot of money and stress:

(b1) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:

(1) The weapon was not a firearm;

(2) The defendant was engaged in, or on the way to or from, an activity in which the defendant legitimately used the weapon;

(3) The defendant possessed the weapon for that legitimate use; and

(4) The defendant did not use or attempt to use the weapon for an illegal purpose.

The burden of proving this defense is on the defendant.


Then here is the pocket knife exclusion and some limitations:

(d) This section does not apply to an ordinary pocket knife carried in a closed position. As used in this section, "ordinary pocket knife" means a small knife, designed for carrying in a pocket or purse, that has its cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by its handle, and that may not be opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action.

The NC court of appeals has looked at the definition of "ordinary pocket knife" and applies three standards based on the statute:

The North Carolina Court of Appeals correctly looked at the elements of the definition which are:

1) Designed for carrying in a purse or pocket; and
2) Cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by the handle; and
3) May not be opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action.

It must meet all three standards


Unfortunately, the meaning of "throwing" or "explosive" opening is ambiguous. It might be an intent to outlaw things like gravity knives, or it alternatively could be an intent to set a very high bar for what is considered not to be an ordinary knife.

"Spring action" isn't much better defined. A "switchblade" is defined in § 14-269.2. Weapons on campus or other educational property:

(3) Switchblade knife. - A knife containing a blade that opens automatically by the release of a spring or a similar contrivance.

As a matter of long established legal principle there should be consistency between the definition of "switchblade" in § 14-269.2 and "opened by spring action" as it appears in § 14-269. Unfortunately there isn't any appellate case law to hang your hat on here.

It is clear that manual knives that can be opened with one hand (like the CRKT Squid, with a stud on the side of the blade that lets you open the knife one handed with your thumb) are legal in NC, while knives that are completely spring opened are not.

Where it gets interesting is with knives like the Kershaw Leek using Kershaw's "speedsafe" design where a spring holds the knife closed until the user presses a tab on the underside of the folded knife to push the blade over center, where the spring then pushes the blade out so it swings open. It the knife is reasonably clean, it'll snap the blade all the way open.

Depending how you interpret the statutory intent, that knife is either legal or illegal. It can be argued that it is not illegal as the spring is never "released" as in the switchblade definition, but rather just goes over center when the blade is manually moved by the user's thumb (much like the CRKT Squid, but with an "assist"). However, it is still arguably at least partially "opened by spring action".

The irony here is that you can find the Kershaw Leek for sale in Walmarts, sporting goods and hardware stores all over NC (as well as in VA where the law banning spring assisted knives is a lot less ambiguous).

There's also the issues of when is concealed concealed? That's also not real clear in NC. For a handgun, the current working definition is if the handgun cannot be readily seen by a person approaching and the gun is readily accessible, it is concealed. NC also allows for a handgun to be carried in a vehicle to be "open carry" if it can be seen in the vehicle.

In comparison, in SD back in the day, if any part of the handgun was not observable it was concealed. That was interpreted to mean the handgun or it's holster, but it meant that if a hunter opening carry had part of it concealed under a jacket, it was concealed. Similarly, if it was in a vehicle at all, it was concealed, unless carried unloaded in a case.

In NC and for the purposes of a knife then, is carrying it partially concealed in a pocket with a pocket clip concealed? Good question. There isn't any case law to go by.

-----

However, it's also important to not get overly paranoid and consider why there isn't any case law in some of these areas, or why you can by Kershaw Leeks and similar knives made by other companies (Benchmade, etc) all over the state.

In practice, a law enforcement officer encountering someone with a spring assisted pocket knife is not going to question it or bother arresting you for it. If they did, the courts would be plugged with cases where people were arrested for carrying spring assisted pocket knives. That's a lose-lose.

Look back at the affirmative defense that is provided. Yes, an officer could arrest someone for a spring assisted knife, but absent substantial evidence that the defendant was NOT engaged in, or on the way to or from, an activity in which the defendant legitimately used the weapon; or the defendant DID NOT possess the weapon for that legitimate use; or the defendant attempted to use the weapon for an illegal purpose, the defendant will be found not guilty after wasting a lot of tax dollars and time on the prosecution.

If that happens the judge and or the state's attorney will talk to sheriff or the chief of police, who will in turn pass their extreme displeasure to the arresting officer for being an idiot.

In short, what will get you arrested for carrying a spring assisted pocket knife in NC is not "carrying" it but rather taking it out AND doing something stupid or criminal with it.
 
First of all, it is not illegal to cut the tag off your mattress. Go read the tag: it says "illegal to remove except by the consumer". If you own the mattress you can cut the tag off if you want to.

No, if you consume it, you can. So does that mean you can cut the tag off your kids' mattresses? A nice man wearing a black dress used to tell me all the time "Words have meaning . . . "

:D
 
I have over a dozen autos but I have found my preference to be a double action OTF spine fire. It just seems a natural for me.
The Benchmade is a daily carry, the purple Microtech is a cool, tough one.

Iowa's Conceal Carry permit states Weapons, so is legal.
 

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All switchblades are automatic, not all automatics are switchblades. You have an Out the Front automatic, commonly termed an OTF. Spring assisted openers require you to start the opening of the blade with your thumb. Some will open by inertia if you flick your wrists. Switchblades open from th e side with a button . . .

Is there a difference between switchblade, automatic, and spring-assist knives? I was told by someone in law enforcement here that spring assist knives are legal in PA. I bought a few here in Pittsburgh at a local Graingers, so I assumed they were legal to own. You have to close them manually and there is a safety on them. I bought what I guess is a switchblade in Virginia; push a button, the blade comes straight out. Push it again, the blade retracts. I DON'T think it's legal here, and I'll never be caught with it outside my home.
Building on Muss' reply, spring-assisted knives are not considered autos and legally classify differently because they have a bias toward closure that has to be overcome by user effort, unlike true auto knives (be it switchblade or out-the-front) which are constantly under tension.
 
I have a Kershaw Blur because it was on sale at $30 a couple of years ago. It's a very good knife but I don't carry it much because it's heavier than the two knives I do carry; a Swiss Army (Cadet?) and a lightweight Gerber. Why do I carry two? I have no idea.
 
Just wondering how many of you have ever been approached by a police officer who asked to take a look at your pocketknife?
If I'm not flying on airlines I don't worry about what knife I've got in my pocket.

Why would a police officer want to look at your pocket knife or anything else, much less approach you?
 
In the winter, when the beechwood handle dries out, the blade on my old Opinel No.8 swings freely on its pivot. It opens easily with a flick of the wrist. I don't know if New York still outlaws gravity knives, but I'll bet this knife would be illegal there.
 
No, if you consume it, you can. So does that mean you can cut the tag off your kids' mattresses? A nice man wearing a black dress used to tell me all the time "Words have meaning . . . "

:D

Do consumer protection laws cover you if you even if you don't eat your car?

I never believed everything the nice men in black dresses told me.
 
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