Automatic Knives - Pros / Cons

Building on Muss' reply, spring-assisted knives are not considered autos and legally classify differently because they have a bias toward closure that has to be overcome by user effort, unlike true auto knives (be it switchblade or out-the-front) which are constantly under tension.

The caveat needs to be added here that you are providing a definition that may not be a definition or a distinction in a jurisdiction where you are carrying one.

Read my response about the ins and outs and ambiguities of state law in NC. I talk a bit about the difference between a spring operated switch blade and an over center spring assisted opener like the very commonly encountered Kershaw Leek. Your line of reasoning is similar, however your reasoning also has no basis or grounding in NC law. It is also not supported by case law, given the lack of case law, given that most officers don't care what you carry for a pocket, knife unless you do something stupid with it.
 
Last edited:
The caveat needs to be added here that you are providing a definition that may not be a definition or a distinction in a jurisdiction where you are carrying one.

Read my response about the ins and outs and ambiguities of state law in NC. I talk a bit about the difference between a spring operated switch blade and an over center spring assisted opener like the very commonly encountered Kershaw Leek. Your line of reasoning is similar, however your reasoning also has no basis or grounding in NC law. It is also not supported by case law, given the lack of case law, given that most officers don't care what you carry for a pocket, knife unless you do something stupid with it.
Agreed it's incumbent on each of us to know state and local laws, ordinances and codes for whatever we carry; local attitudes among law enforcement, DA's office and courts are good to know, too, when possible.

My reasoning on the mechanical differences between switchblades and spring-assisted openers, however, isn't idiosyncratic: it's from the Federal Switchblade Act of 1958, amended by Congress and that amendment signed into law 2009, in which a specific carve-out was written for spring-assisted openers, including a clear mechanical definition of the differences between switchblades and assisted-openers, and clarifying the Federal legality of the latter.
 
My reasoning on the mechanical differences between switchblades and spring-assisted openers, however, isn't idiosyncratic: it's from the Federal Switchblade Act of 1958, amended by Congress and that amendment signed into law 2009, in which a specific carve-out was written for spring-assisted openers, including a clear mechanical definition of the differences between switchblades and assisted-openers, and clarifying the Federal legality of the latter.

I totally get that, but it's a federal law that has nothing at all to do with state statutes. Those statutes can and will be applied as the federal law does not preempt more restrictive state statutes. Similarly, in states that do not specifically prohibit more restrictive local ordinances local ordinances can be passed that are more restrictive.

Again NC is a good example of this, as while state law does prohibit more restrictive gun control and concealed handgun carry ordinances, state law does not prohibit more restrictive ordinances pertaining to knives and other weapons.

In the end, the federal law is probably the least important and least impactful for an individual carrying a spring assisted pocket knife or switchblade as it won't be the thing that brings him to the attention of the feds, and the feds are not out pulling people over for traffic violations or otherwise coming in contact with people for minor misdemeanors.
 
I totally get that, but it's a federal law that has nothing at all to do with state statutes. Those statutes can and will be applied as the federal law does not preempt more restrictive state statutes. Similarly, in states that do not specifically prohibit more restrictive local ordinances local ordinances can be passed that are more restrictive.

Again NC is a good example of this, as while state law does prohibit more restrictive gun control and concealed handgun carry ordinances, state law does not prohibit more restrictive ordinances pertaining to knives and other weapons.

In the end, the federal law is probably the least important and least impactful for an individual carrying a spring assisted pocket knife or switchblade as it won't be the thing that brings him to the attention of the feds, and the feds are not out pulling people over for traffic violations or otherwise coming in contact with people for minor misdemeanors.
We're in agreement and talking past it.

Again, agreed: state and local laws, ordnances and codes -- know them.

Referencing the federal act is to illustrate that the definitions of switchblade and assisted-opener used here aren't arbitrary or "reasoned", they're from law as written, which is useful.
 
Last edited:
Let's not set that aside, as it's a great example of some of the potential pitfalls.

First, in NC a concealed handgun permits limits you to carrying a handgun, and does not apply to any other firearm type or other weapon, like a knife:

§ 14-269. Carrying concealed weapons.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his or her person any bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slung shot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles, razor, shuriken, stun gun, or other deadly weapon of like kind, except when the person is on the person's own premises.

(a2) This prohibition does not apply to a person who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25, provided the weapon is a handgun, is in a closed compartment or container within the person's locked vehicle, and the vehicle is in a parking area that is owned or leased by State government. A person may unlock the vehicle to enter or exit the vehicle, provided the handgun remains in the closed compartment at all times and the vehicle is locked immediately following the entrance or exit.


However, NC also allows for legitimate use as a defense against prosecution. However, it's conjunctive, meaning all of the elements must be true, and that that last line is the kicker as it makes it an affirmative defense. In other words, you may successfully defend the charge, but it won't prevent your arrest - just your conviction, and that can still cost you a lot of money and stress:

(b1) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:

(1) The weapon was not a firearm;

(2) The defendant was engaged in, or on the way to or from, an activity in which the defendant legitimately used the weapon;

(3) The defendant possessed the weapon for that legitimate use; and

(4) The defendant did not use or attempt to use the weapon for an illegal purpose.

The burden of proving this defense is on the defendant.


Then here is the pocket knife exclusion and some limitations:

(d) This section does not apply to an ordinary pocket knife carried in a closed position. As used in this section, "ordinary pocket knife" means a small knife, designed for carrying in a pocket or purse, that has its cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by its handle, and that may not be opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action.

The NC court of appeals has looked at the definition of "ordinary pocket knife" and applies three standards based on the statute:

The North Carolina Court of Appeals correctly looked at the elements of the definition which are:

1) Designed for carrying in a purse or pocket; and
2) Cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by the handle; and
3) May not be opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action.

It must meet all three standards


Unfortunately, the meaning of "throwing" or "explosive" opening is ambiguous. It might be an intent to outlaw things like gravity knives, or it alternatively could be an intent to set a very high bar for what is considered not to be an ordinary knife.

"Spring action" isn't much better defined. A "switchblade" is defined in § 14-269.2. Weapons on campus or other educational property:

(3) Switchblade knife. - A knife containing a blade that opens automatically by the release of a spring or a similar contrivance.

As a matter of long established legal principle there should be consistency between the definition of "switchblade" in § 14-269.2 and "opened by spring action" as it appears in § 14-269. Unfortunately there isn't any appellate case law to hang your hat on here.

It is clear that manual knives that can be opened with one hand (like the CRKT Squid, with a stud on the side of the blade that lets you open the knife one handed with your thumb) are legal in NC, while knives that are completely spring opened are not.

Where it gets interesting is with knives like the Kershaw Leek using Kershaw's "speedsafe" design where a spring holds the knife closed until the user presses a tab on the underside of the folded knife to push the blade over center, where the spring then pushes the blade out so it swings open. It the knife is reasonably clean, it'll snap the blade all the way open.

Depending how you interpret the statutory intent, that knife is either legal or illegal. It can be argued that it is not illegal as the spring is never "released" as in the switchblade definition, but rather just goes over center when the blade is manually moved by the user's thumb (much like the CRKT Squid, but with an "assist"). However, it is still arguably at least partially "opened by spring action".

The irony here is that you can find the Kershaw Leek for sale in Walmarts, sporting goods and hardware stores all over NC (as well as in VA where the law banning spring assisted knives is a lot less ambiguous).

There's also the issues of when is concealed concealed? That's also not real clear in NC. For a handgun, the current working definition is if the handgun cannot be readily seen by a person approaching and the gun is readily accessible, it is concealed. NC also allows for a handgun to be carried in a vehicle to be "open carry" if it can be seen in the vehicle.

In comparison, in SD back in the day, if any part of the handgun was not observable it was concealed. That was interpreted to mean the handgun or it's holster, but it meant that if a hunter opening carry had part of it concealed under a jacket, it was concealed. Similarly, if it was in a vehicle at all, it was concealed, unless carried unloaded in a case.

In NC and for the purposes of a knife then, is carrying it partially concealed in a pocket with a pocket clip concealed? Good question. There isn't any case law to go by.

-----

However, it's also important to not get overly paranoid and consider why there isn't any case law in some of these areas, or why you can by Kershaw Leeks and similar knives made by other companies (Benchmade, etc) all over the state.

In practice, a law enforcement officer encountering someone with a spring assisted pocket knife is not going to question it or bother arresting you for it. If they did, the courts would be plugged with cases where people were arrested for carrying spring assisted pocket knives. That's a lose-lose.

Look back at the affirmative defense that is provided. Yes, an officer could arrest someone for a spring assisted knife, but absent substantial evidence that the defendant was NOT engaged in, or on the way to or from, an activity in which the defendant legitimately used the weapon; or the defendant DID NOT possess the weapon for that legitimate use; or the defendant attempted to use the weapon for an illegal purpose, the defendant will be found not guilty after wasting a lot of tax dollars and time on the prosecution.

If that happens the judge and or the state's attorney will talk to sheriff or the chief of police, who will in turn pass their extreme displeasure to the arresting officer for being an idiot.

In short, what will get you arrested for carrying a spring assisted pocket knife in NC is not "carrying" it but rather taking it out AND doing something stupid or criminal with it.

Great post. I agree with your analysis. The problem though, as I see it, is the possibility of having to address it on the back end as a defense. We can just add it to the list of NC General Statutes that could use a little attention. Heck, I would lead the charge (on the lobbying side) myself if the manual knife didn't suit me just fine.
 
I like autos and have a few, but have found that Kershaw Blur and others work well hanging upside down in a Blazer or from a tree. They are Legal in MI, but most do not open as fast as a Kershaw. Be Safe,
 
First of all, it is not illegal to cut the tag off your mattress. Go read the tag: it says "illegal to remove except by the consumer". If you own the mattress you can cut the tag off if you want to.
.

True. But In California it is illegal to use a switchblade to cut the mattress tag off.
 
Autos are the only way to go if you're an urban dweller. Luckily for me I live in a state that doesn't ban them. Even gravity knives are legal.

What real reason is there for a manual folding pocket knife? They only became as popular as they did in the last 100 years because most every city/state/country made autos illegal to carry and people were forced to carry manual folders instead.

Any place you go to where auto knives are legal to carry...that's what people carry.

The reason they were banned was the same reason knuckles, butterfly knives and nun-chucks were banned. Political types got it in their heads that since men loved these types of weapons it was his/her duty to take it away from them and get that testosterone level knocked down a peg or two.

All these weapons had been around for years, in some cases for 1000+ years...so why go after them in the 1970's? It had nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with "social engineering".
 
my EDC is a Kershaw Leek... light, fast, sharp... does everything I need to do...
I do have a handful of automatics.. but they are old school cool Italian switchblades or German leverlocks... one cheapy OTF... the automatics are just toys... but really fun toys..

I could have written this exact post myself. Despite my screen name, I carry an assisted open . . . a Kershaw Leek.
 
Always carried a knife since I was a Boy Scout. Early on ... camping knife, then a Boy Scout whittler knife. Then a Old Timer stockman. Then ... a little Buck small stockman... a Buck Duke ... a little Gerber lock back. In 1998, got burned. Bought a little Benchmade Auto-Benchmite b/c I couldn't use both hands to open my little Buck. That thing was and is a revelation! It is the knife I carry on Sunday and when I am wearing dress cloths. Just a joy to use. So sharp it will cut before you even push the leaf lever. A few years later i bought a Benchmade Auto-Presideo for everyday use. I have used the tar out of that knife. It is just about ideal for anything that needs cutting on Monday through Saturday. It locks closed or open but I very seldom ever use the lock. The mechanism on the Auto-Presideo is in my opinion ideal in every possible respect. Sincerely. bruce.
 
I have carried an auto knife for years and tend to buy the Benchmade models. I have never had one open in my pocket and the one handed aspect has come in handy a number of times. I also have given auto knives to all three of my kids who are A/F pilots to carry on their flight suits per their request. Two carry Benchmade and the third really liked a Microtech OTF so I gave him one of those to carry when he flies.
 
I've had my Impel open a couple times. It has a safety, so a couple events have to occur in order. Something has to knock the safety off, and something has to press the go button with purpose. I carry less stuff in that pocket now, and it quit happening . . .

I have carried an auto knife for years and tend to buy the Benchmade models. I have never had one open in my pocket and the one handed aspect has come in handy a number of times. I also have given auto knives to all three of my kids who are A/F pilots to carry on their flight suits per their request. Two carry Benchmade and the third really liked a Microtech OTF so I gave him one of those to carry when he flies.
 
My only auto.

I really like it's heft and strength.

It carries well, no issues.

And, the blade configuration is exactly how I order all my knives.

The report on opening is very positive. I like that also.

enjoy,

bdGreen

Tap on image to enlarge.















 
Because it causes cancer ?

My wife got me a nice pair of Proto safety wire pliers. They came packaged with the CA Proposition 65 cancer and reproductive health warning.

I'm trying to figure out why.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My wife got me a nice pair of Proto safety wire pliers. They came packaged with the CA Proposition 65 cancer and reproductive health warning.

I'm trying to figure out why.

Most likely the chrome or possibly the handle material. You will probably be fine as long as you don't consume them in some fashion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top