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cmort666
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I saw at least some of that in 2001...
Babi Yar
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cmort666
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Some people want to erase history, because they'd like to repeat it.Sadly true.
History--real, carefully researched, warts-and-all history from various viewpoints, not watered-down, sugar-coated, prettified history promoting a single narrow world view, is a priceless treasure.
To the degree that we ignore it, we risk even greater disasters.
It's not necessary for those of us who aren't full-time historians to obsess about it 24/7/365, but we had damned well better not forget it or fail to study it.
Here endeth the rant by a former history major.
I'm always amused by the revisionists and deniers. They can't seem to be able to choose between "It never happened!" and "I wish it had been more successful!"
JavierLaurido
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I have studied world history a lot, and I am always surprised why the jews holocaust is always remembered, and others like the Armenian, the Tutsi in Ruanda, the cambodian under Pol Pot, the numerous under the USSR, the gypsies, and ton of others, are always forgotten. Still searching why the jew holocaust is usually the only one considered, like if they where the only valid victims on this world.
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Tell that to the deniers and revisionists.
They're trying to, and if the knowledge level of most Millennials is any indication, they are succeeding in doing just that....
Quite simply, the modern and larger mass exterminations were committed by regimes which still exist, although slightly tidied up in their presentation. The Chinese, the Soviet socialist and their modern day practicioners, but todays "liberal" refuses to recognize the ongoing slaughter and quest for global tyranny.
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE[/ame]
Venezuela, Honduras, Syria, even Mexico. One might even consider the overall bodycount in Americas major cities....
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I think it's important to commemorate such events, and yes, to remember them. And just because you are tired of hearing that famous quote, doesn't make it less valid...
One of the most powerful books I have ever read is Justice at Nuremberg, by Robert Conot. It is THE definitive account of the war crimes trials which took place after the war. It is exhaustively detailed, and the author explains that this was necessary so the reader would truly understand what happened.
The massacre at Babi Yar is a heartbreaking part of this book...you will weep when reading about it. But it will illustrate for you, like nothing else I've ever read, what happens when people surrender their consciences to the State, and believe that following orders is a higher priority than anything else...
[ame="https://www.amazon.com/Justice-at-Nuremberg-Robert-Conot/dp/0881840327/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475219693&sr=1-1&keywords=justice+at+nuremberg"]Amazon.com: Justice at Nuremberg (9780881840322): Robert E Conot: Books[/ame]
The massacre at Babi Yar is a heartbreaking part of this book...you will weep when reading about it. But it will illustrate for you, like nothing else I've ever read, what happens when people surrender their consciences to the State, and believe that following orders is a higher priority than anything else...
[ame="https://www.amazon.com/Justice-at-Nuremberg-Robert-Conot/dp/0881840327/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475219693&sr=1-1&keywords=justice+at+nuremberg"]Amazon.com: Justice at Nuremberg (9780881840322): Robert E Conot: Books[/ame]
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cmort666
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Some of us know about all of those.
The Shoah is remembered largely for its size, geographic scope and comprehensive nature.
I don't recall the Turks demanding that the Germans send their Armenians to Anatolia to be exterminated during WWI.
pittpa
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cmort666
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I do, every chance I get. They don't enjoy it.
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cmort666
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Let me also recommend: [ame="https://www.amazon.com/Bloodlands-Europe-Between-Hitler-Stalin/dp/0465031471/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475239675&sr=1-1&keywords=Blood+Lands"]Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin: Timothy Snyder: 9780465031474: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
It describes the complementary nature of Hitler's and Stalin's respective genocides.
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cmort666
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The vehemence with which it's attacked only emphasizes its validity.
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cmort666
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The Jews in the Warsaw and Lodz Ghettos weren't shooting EACH OTHER.
Nor are thousands of people on the west side of Chicago being marched into the Cook County Forest Preserves and being shot and buried in mass graves, nor packed onto boxcars and sent to Indiana to be gassed.
Arik
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Holly is a Greek word meaning to sacrifice by fire. To burn.
The ones you refer to are called genocide. Which is usually set upon ones own people. Pol Pot and USSR were to its own people, as well as Rwanda and Yugoslavia
Technically the reasons and end result is the same. Today the word Holocaust became synonymous with the atrocities committed by the Nazis in WW2.
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It's called victors history. Bolsheviks (whose leadership consisted largely of Jews, ironically) on both sides of the Atlantic murdered far more people than the Germans ever did but you rarely hear anything about their atrocities. No one posts on gun forums imploring everyone to never forget the Katyn massacre, for example, nor do we see Museums of Tolerance and such erected in memory of the victims of Cheka/NKVD. School children can tell you all about the Holocaust but when asked about the Holodomor, blank stares are the response. That's just how things go.
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cmort666
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No, it's just called history.
You mean like Lenin, Stalin, Beria and Kruschev?
I do.
You don't have to ignore... or endorse Hitler's crimes to condemn Stalin's, or vice versa.
You might want to read "Blood Lands", to which I referred above, since it discusses BOTH Stalin's terror famine and ethnic deportations AND the Holocaust.
It's victors history in the sense certain issues and events get a lot of attention paid while others, even if of greater importance and/or scale, tend to be ignored, downplayed or forgotten. This is hardly deniable.
No, I mean like Trotsky and others. As a student of history, certainly you're aware of the gross disproportion of Jewry among the Bolsheviks, particularly earlier in their rise to power. Countless statesmen and historians from Churchill to Solzhenitsyn have pointed this out.
Well, I just did a quick search and you've mentioned Katyn a grand total of 5 times, previous to this thread, in the past 13 years you've been here, and then only in passing (discussing shell casing head stamps, for example). I'm not sure that equates to imploring everyone to never forget the massacre as you claim you do.
In any case, I'm not interested in nit-picking and arguing. Nothing I've said is controversial or debate-worthy.
You don't get to minimize the atrocities by pointing the fingers at other horrible things.
Go study more history.
Arik
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The Katyn massacre was prompted by Beria, approved by Stalin and carried out by Vasily Blokhin, who personally shot 7,000 of the 22,000 victims. 8% of the victims were Polish Jews
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cmort666
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What happened to Trotsky?
Against whom was Stalin's last great purge aimed?
And by the way, unless I'm mistaken, yesterday wasn't the anniversary of Katyn.
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