Background Checks for Internet Sales

stumper

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This is yet another perfect example of how "our side" allows lies to become facts because it is not challenged. I keep seeing the lie plastered all over the news that we need to have individual background checks made for internet purchases... Unless I have missed something in the two decades I've held an FFL (03) all internet transactions are currently required by law to go through a licensed dealer (receiving end) who in turn must conduct the background check for the transfer??? Why do "we" let this stuff go unanswered?

The 40% of sales occurring without background checks at least in the past week has gotten some push back on its validity but the one on internet sales goes unchecked..
 
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I think FFL is required only when the buyer/seller (internet sale) are in different states, am I right???
 
I have never bought a gun on the internet
from another state resident, although
I have bought quite a few with FTF. This
is really more of an attack on family members
or friends passing on guns to each other as I see it.
You are right that probably very few
legal internet sales go without an FFL and
I don't understand how our side doesn't display
the facts more. Other than the NRA we don't
have a voice and the public just believes
what they read. Back to the attack on family
and friends trading guns etc I just feel it's
all about attacking the gun culture and
the left's drive to stomp it out. I think the
next move will be to possibly eliminate
all C & R licenses. And why wouldn't that be
next? We have no voice, we are sitting
ducks on this. This is all very upsetting. It's time
for the states to live up to their threats of
rejecting further attacks on our rights. I don't
like this.
 
I do believe firearms on the INTERNET go FFL to FFL or Seller to an FFL if

the receiving FFL will accept a NON-FFL shipment, many will NOT.

NON-FFL LICENSE Firearms sales and shipment to your HOME ADDRESS has been GONE FOR YEARS.

Firearms CAN be shipped and received at your home if your're shipping to a firearms manufacturer.

Some manufacturers will send you a RETURN SHIPPING LABEL for a FED-EX or UPS pick-up.

You shipping ON YOUR OWN to a manufacturer must be done at a main shipping branch, franchise shipping outlets will not accept.

FED-EX and UPS generally require an OVERNIGHT AIR SHIPMENT, which is a CORPORATE PROFIT RULE, not "THE LAW".

THEFT was a PROBLEM with regular shipments, so they say.

I HAPPEN TO THINK IT WAS MORE JUST PURE CORPORATE GREED!!!!!!!

Step on in fellas.
 
Is it possibe that the internet sale thing was a bone thrown to the uninformed electorate and Democrats? Requiring something as new, that was required already, would be a neat trick. It would certainly minimize the damage.
 
If you really want to get to the nitty gritty the actual sale of a firearm requires no background check it is the transfer of the firearm that requires a background check. This applies to interstate sales. Federal law does not require a background check for intrastate sales with the exception of those which must be shipped. The anti-gunners are correct when they say that the SALE doesn't require a check. They're not lying they're just not telling the whole truth. That's called politics.

Politics: poly from the Greek meaning "many", tics - blood sucking creatures.
 
Is it possibe that the internet sale thing was a bone thrown to the uninformed electorate and Democrats? Requiring something as new, that was required already, would be a neat trick. It would certainly minimize the damage.

This^ It may be a way to appease the uninformed, and make them feel they made a difference by creating a new law which mimics the 1968 Gun Control Act.

I will reserve judgement until I see the nuts and bolts of the language. Does it also apply to Armslist postings where the actual sale is face to face?
 
Federal law does not require a background check for intrastate sales with the exception of those which must be shipped.

If i understand what you are saying I don't think this is correct. If you purchase a handgun or a long gun in your state of residence (intrastate) from a dealer he has to run a background check. The exception being some states (like mine) that allow use of a CCP or other ID that proves a background check was already done on that person. The only time a background check is not "required" (varies by state) that I know of is :

1) for intrastate individual trancactions (in some - not all states)
2) for individual sales to adjacent states of long guns (again some states)

Handgun sales by individuals to individuals within their state of residence do not require a background check - in some states. In many states they do still require the checks. NC has required a background check for the personal sale of handguns for years. The buyer is supposed to apply for and receive a purchase permit after a background check and the seller is required to collect that permit when selling (or use a CCP). This is why I have cried BS on this 40% statistic they are touting as fact!! Back in the early 90s when they came up with that statistic the gun shows here were wide open. Sales between individuals took place freely, handguns and long guns. The shows are policed so much these days that very little handgun sales happen without a background check. It's gotten to the point that some of the shows themselves do not allow individual sales of even long guns - period.
 
Actually in NC, a pistol purchase permit (not an NICS) is interpreted as needed by AG Cooper for a personal sale. I do not believe that is a codified requirement, although that might have changed. A CCW is also an acceptable substitute. Nothing required for long guns, I believe.

The GOA is saying this "Internet sales" definition is much worse than we all think it is. If you post for sale on a local Internet forum that you have any gun for sale, and your neighbor down the street emails you that he wants to buy it, then you have an "Internet sale," and you will have to drive to an FFL, your neighbor will have to fill out a 4473, be placed in your dealer's log and likely pay a transfer fee. Depending on where you live, that may be $60. This is even if you have known him for 30 years, and you are selling your 10 year old Cricket. This is defacto registration, plain and simple.

And there are some even worse provisions regarding mental health and safe passage.
 
A purchase permit is required by law for the purchase of a pistol in NC and the seller is obligated to collect the permit on the transaction. They are only good for one pistol purchase - which is stupid of course. The person who applies for the permit undergoes a background check before it is issued by local LE. Not sure if they use the NICS system or what, but law enforcement conducts a check. Same thing if you have a CCP, you have undergone and passed a background check.
 
I have bought and sold many guns in my life time. When I was young, we used to trade guns all the time....without any paper work...this was normal. Today all the guns I buy go through an FFL...any gun I sell goes through an FFL for my own protection...I do not know who is or is not a Felon. Its just protecting yourself to do this. I have given away guns to friends and family, I know they have clean records. I have given guns to disabled Vets that love to shoot with no check...but I know them.
I do not have a problem with background checks...I think every politicion and public offical should have one. I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of mentally disabled people that should not have one and people that have problems controlling their temper and raging on someone. However...that could be a slippery slope and could be abused...so who makes the decision that you are mentally unstable? Should it take two doctors? Our rights are precious....and so are our children. I do not want to see a registry that can be abused. Many men are denyed a right to own a firearm because of a scorned woman that lied....so the man can never own a firearm again? That is also wrong.
I do not know what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty...but that has also changed. I think we need to look very close at any legislation that is passed. No sane person wants to see any other person harmed by another...be it with a gun, club or knife....but sometimes that is going to happen...because we will always have evil among us and we also need to be prepared to be able to defend ourselves.
Armed guards at schools just make sence (good common sence) if you ask me. I would do away with gun free zones....just invites criminals to a target rich environment where they have full control to rage and kill. I believe in concealed carry by responsible citizens that know how to use a weapon and when to use it. I believe in training in the use and application of deadly force because its a fine line and a mistake on either side of that line can mean death...or prison time. You need to know when you can act....and how to act...know when to walk away and when you need to stand your ground. If a child is being threatened by a criminal and they will be harmed....you cant walk away from that (and still sleep at night) Even when you do everything right...you may still face proscution and need a good defence atorney. There are no easy answers but I hope that we work toward real common sence solutions to todays probelms.
When I was in school, I sometimes had a 22 pistol in my back pack and would go hunting after school. My friend had a double barrle shotgun in a violen case and we hunded a lot after school...we walked everywhere and never rode a buss. It was not a big deal back then...today it would be a serious offence.
I refinished a shotgun in wood working class....no one ever got concerned about it....crime in the town I lived in was almost unheard of. How times have changed,
 
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This is yet another perfect example of how "our side" allows lies to become facts because it is not challenged. I keep seeing the lie plastered all over the news that we need to have individual background checks made for internet purchases... Unless I have missed something in the two decades I've held an FFL (03) all internet transactions are currently required by law to go through a licensed dealer (receiving end) who in turn must conduct the background check for the transfer??? Why do "we" let this stuff go unanswered?

The 40% of sales occurring without background checks at least in the past week has gotten some push back on its validity but the one on internet sales goes unchecked..

I saw that on the news today{internet gun sales and gun show sales} need background checks, I do not think any of the news people have ever been to a gun show or even looked at a gun on the internet, so they believe any lie the gun banners say..
 
If i understand what you are saying I don't think this is correct. If you purchase a handgun or a long gun in your state of residence (intrastate) from a dealer he has to run a background check. The exception being some states (like mine) that allow use of a CCP or other ID that proves a background check was already done on that person. The only time a background check is not "required" (varies by state) that I know of is :

1) for intrastate individual trancactions (in some - not all states)
2) for individual sales to adjacent states of long guns (again some states)

Handgun sales by individuals to individuals within their state of residence do not require a background check - in some states. In many states they do still require the checks. NC has required a background check for the personal sale of handguns for years. The buyer is supposed to apply for and receive a purchase permit after a background check and the seller is required to collect that permit when selling (or use a CCP). This is why I have cried BS on this 40% statistic they are touting as fact!! Back in the early 90s when they came up with that statistic the gun shows here were wide open. Sales between individuals took place freely, handguns and long guns. The shows are policed so much these days that very little handgun sales happen without a background check. It's gotten to the point that some of the shows themselves do not allow individual sales of even long guns - period.

What you say is correct. The discussion was internet sales this presupposes that this is individual to individual not FFL to individual. The antis are saying you don't need a background check for any internet purchase. This discussion also centered on Federal law not state law. The antis want to pass a Federal law requiring background checks on all transfers (sales). In the case of Federal law there is no provision to require a check on intrastate sales between individuals unless the gun is shipped between those individuals. In the case of shipment then an FFL is involved and a background check is required. State law also applies and can and will modify any or all of these procedures.
 
Why do "we" let this stuff go unanswered?

Because we don't have the microphone. The left does. It reaches every home in a constant barrage that includes rush coverage of every shooting everywhere, parents of dead kids testifying as 'experts' and professional liars running this show with emotion instead of reason. They are ALL shameless alpha hotels and they are ramming it, jamming it, slamming it down our throats and I just don't see a way out of this that doesn't involve a Lexington and Concord moment eventually. Sorry. We can talk till we're blue in the face, write letters, make sense, come up with better ideas, but it's not about public safety and never was so it's a waste of time to debate them on the merits.
 
This is about Democrats and liberal Rupublicans destroying Conservatives, not about safety.
 
Hello all.

I live in Puerto Rico and we have one of the strongest firearms law within the American judiciary system, over here if you want to buy a gun first you have go thru the process of getting a firearms license for which you have to apply to the state police dept. and local justice dept. they investigate you, go to your neighbors and your co workers and then when they decide that you are worthy you have to take a firearms course and pay up to $400.00 for the paper work and the course and then you can buy a gun. This process can take up to six months and its only for home self defense and sport shooting in a gun range. If you want a CCW after you get your firearms license you have to apply once again through an attorney, they investigate you once again you have pay upwards of $500 or more depending on attorneys fees and you have to appear in front of a judge with three character witnesses you have state your reasons for your application to carry a conceal weapon and he decides if you are worthy of that privilege, because over here is a privilege not a RIGHT, and this new process can take another six months.

Every new gun is registered with the police, theres a background check on every purchase and every bullet purchase has to be registered with the police and every private transfer has to be done in a FFL were they change the registration of the gun to the new owner with the police and they obviously charge you a transfer fee, usually $25.

On internet guns the gun has to arrive to your FFL and they do the background check and register the gun with the police and charge you $125 for that.

Thats the law in Puerto Rico. Thats what we have to live with. Criminality in Puerto Rico is way up but the highest percent of the crimes are committed with illegal guns. No one in their right mind would go thru that process to get a legal gun and then use it in a crime.

We have to control the illegal guns and that way we can start to control crime.
 
Lots of FTF gun transactions take place, with the buyer and seller finding one another on places such as Armslist.com. Those transactions do not involve an FFL.

Is that what the internet sales background checks issue is about?

I'm not sure about "lots" but there may be some that occur this way, but then they are not internet sales but FTF sales. If that FTF sale is a handgun and the two parties are in different states the transaction is already illegal. In some states even if it involves a long gun it is illegal.
The point of course for the thread is that the left / media continue to use false statements to further their agenda and our side does nothing to counter it.. We may not have the best microphone since there is very limited unbiased news media venues but it seems that we do not even try. Any number of the organizations (NRA, GOA, 2ND Amend, the GOP) could at least "try" to publish the facts and truth...... but they don't.
 
I posted almost the same thing as the OP said here on another forum. It makes me wonder how much our elected officials really know. Every gun I have bought thru internet sales had to be shipped to an FFL and then they either required a purchase permit or a ccp either of which require a background check.
 
Hello all.

I live in Puerto Rico and we have one of the strongest firearms law within the American judiciary system, over here if you want to buy a gun first you have go thru the process of getting a firearms license for which you have to apply to the state police dept. and local justice dept. they investigate you, go to your neighbors and your co workers and then when they decide that you are worthy you have to take a firearms course and pay up to $400.00 for the paper work and the course and then you can buy a gun. This process can take up to six months and its only for home self defense and sport shooting in a gun range. If you want a CCW after you get your firearms license you have to apply once again through an attorney, they investigate you once again you have pay upwards of $500 or more depending on attorneys fees and you have to appear in front of a judge with three character witnesses you have state your reasons for your application to carry a conceal weapon and he decides if you are worthy of that privilege, because over here is a privilege not a RIGHT, and this new process can take another six months.

Every new gun is registered with the police, theres a background check on every purchase and every bullet purchase has to be registered with the police and every private transfer has to be done in a FFL were they change the registration of the gun to the new owner with the police and they obviously charge you a transfer fee, usually $25.

On internet guns the gun has to arrive to your FFL and they do the background check and register the gun with the police and charge you $125 for that.

Thats the law in Puerto Rico. Thats what we have to live with. Criminality in Puerto Rico is way up but the highest percent of the crimes are committed with illegal guns. No one in their right mind would go thru that process to get a legal gun and then use it in a crime.

We have to control the illegal guns and that way we can start to control crime.

I believe crime rate is very high on the island, right? plus the income is very low and has similar culture to central America (most violent region on this planet) , right? anyway, join the USA as the 51th state, things might improve, including 2A!
 
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