Backyard Range w/65+ yds to work with... Thoughts?

[GKH]

I have been thinking about setting up a range out back for shooting my 15-22, and various air rifles/pistols. So; I did a bit of measuring this past weekend.
The photo shows the area along the back of my lot. In my neighborhood, each lot is about 2 acres or more. The tree row you see to the left indicates a wooded area that is about 50 ft. deep. On the other side are other lots w/homes. So; 2 homes are are behind our lot in this area (my lot extends another 30 yds the other direction).
At the far end of my photo is woods. Maybe, 1/4-1/2 mile before the next lot. Speaking to a fellow shooter who has a lot more experience than myself, he told me a nice back stop is a stack of railroad ties supported by 4x4 fence posts, or something similar. Then; nail a piece of plywood onto the ties to attach paper targets. After many thousand rounds, as he puts it, when that plywood is shredded, just put up another.
And, with this distance, I was thinking metal swinging targets would be nice as well - set at different distances. I actually have at least 75 yds. as you see it. But, I want to stay back from my side neighbors yard a little.

A couple of years back, I called the county Sheriff's office in Somerville, regarding shooting in the county. And, they said, 'you're in the country'! Be safe, and have fun!
With that said, and from my description, would you be hesitant to set up a range like this?

For the past several years, I have been shooting my air guns (mostly C02) off the deck, angled down to targets near the tree row you see, which is about 90 ft. from the deck.

Thoughts? (of course, this will only be for .22 cal or less)

 

[bbgun]

railroad ties will make a great back stop.i shoot my model 18 daily. i have acess to sweet gun trees,so i take my chain saw and cut 4 ft. lenghts & about 20 inches through for target stand & back stop & when it fills up with lead replace with new log,burn the old log & reclaim the lead.

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

In my neighborhood, each lot is about 2 acres or more. The tree row you see to the left indicates a wooded area that is about 50 ft. deep. On the other side are other lots w/homes. So; 2 homes are are behind our lot in this area (my lot extends another 30 yds the other direction).
At the far end of my photo is woods. Maybe, 1/4-1/2 mile before the next lot.

Air rifles? No problem.

.22's? No way.


An errant .22 round or ricochet could easily hit anything around you in those ranges. If you or your guests put a round over the berm and hit somebody, everything you own will belong to them as well as much of your future earnings? Is that worth it?

 

[HalfSwiss]

And how are you going to know when someone is out for a walk in the woods? Even a 22 at 65+ yards is something I wouldn't take a chance on unless I had a real nice, visible hill for a back stop. You might want to stick with pellet guns on that range (which I envy you for having). Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Foxtrot]

Air rifles, not too concerned, but for .22 and above .... Yeah, uhhhhh... ya might want to reconsider the backstop some, like a high earthen mound (or hill). You may also want to check further for your jurisdiction other then just the sherrifs office for "have fun".

I've got 30 acres, i'm in the country, the sheriff will tell you all day long its fine to shoot.

However, I also know in my state that to use a piece of property as a dedicated firing range requires 20 foot high, 8 feet thick, minimum earthen berms on three sides. So I spent two weeks putting in the required earthen berms on a section of my property. "Dedicated" usually means or includes "frequent use" and i'm sure your going to use it more then once, so i'd check to make sure first and if you dont need to go a route like I did then your lucky. But i'd still make sure, just for the sake of peace of mind in case you might not be able to see someone, or a pet, wandering around in those tress and for any neighbors which might be concerned, that a more suitable backstop was in place then just a short stack of rail road ties and some plywood. All it takes is one neighbor to make a case and you will not be shooting there any longer regardless of what the sheriff says.

I'd do all this anyway, because I can just about gurantee you that buried somewhere in the law is a little thing against shooting in the direction of inhabited areas without a "suitable" backstop or doing so in a "safe" manner, and the courts decides and interpets what those mean and you don't if you end up putting a round into someones roof top, or shooting someones dog (or even a neighborhood kid) by accident when they were wandering around in those trees and you could not see them. You got a nice little range going there for a .22, but do it the right and safe way.

 

[kingranch]

Here is my idea:

 

[bigmacque]

kingranch's idea is cool, but I'm wondering what a day with a rented bobcat might get you? Could you dig a trench, to lower your standing height about three or four feet, and use the dug out earth as a berm behind you?

And, just to be safe, put the railroad ties in a rectangular fashion, with some open space between them, and fill that open space with some of the earth dug out from your trench?

That way you've fortified and raised your backstop, and lowered yourself so your angle should travel downward.

I'd still be nervous shooting .22, but I've shot one at a lot less.

 

[Foxtrot]

Don't start making things up

If you want to see the standard applied by your state, visit either an outdoor state owned public range or an outdoor police range, see those berms of dirt? I can just about gurantee you that what they use is the basic state standard for dedicated firing ranges and will be the standard you will have been expected to adhere to for a "dedicated" range. Check your state laws and see what else they say you can use also for a dedicated range, it doesn't always have to be dirt berms, but it has to be what they perscribe at a minimum. Also, somewhere in your state government is a "standards" office or agency, might be called different things in different states but every state has one, call them and check also.

 

[Spectre_USA]

I have always dreamed of having a range in my backyard, but envy is such
an ugly emotion.

Heed these fine folks words, and FoxTrot is wise. Do it by the book, and good
luck finding said book.

A berm making bobcat for a weekend sounds like a very good investment,
or maybe you have a shooting friend with some heavy equipment?

Built correctly, it could pay off in fun for years to come!

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

If you do meet whatever local standards are in place and decide to build a firearms range, I suspect you may be opening up several other cans of worms in terms of insurance and environmental considerations.

What will happen to your homeowners insurance if the company finds out you have built a rifle range in your back yard?

Will a bunch of environmental remediation issues come up if you ever want to sell your house?

These are things to consider. I know my local gun club has to readdress these every few years. (And we now have a 50ft earthen berm downrange, 20 ft high 1/2" steel plates on the sides, and 2X12 louvers over top such that it is just about impossible to put a bullet outside the range from the firing line.)

 

[GKH]

Yowza!
I step away for a couple of hours, and look what happens!
Great posts, everyone! And, a bit of a wakeup call. I have really been beating this idea around. And, reading just a couple of the posts makes me realize, that the smart thing to do is put together a range for my air guns - not my .22.
Of course, as some of you can imagine some of my buddies in my area were getting a little excited about this. Having the area for it's nice. But; not living waaaaay out in the country away from other homes just makes it too risky. And, why take a stupid chance. The air guns are a good time, and quite fun to shoot out to 30 or 40 yards. Maybe, I'll shorten the range length to 50 yds. I can still use 4x4 support posts. But, maybe something less hefty than railroad ties as a backdrop. One of my .177 pellet rifles (Hammerli 850 AirMagnum) has a muzzle velocity of about 850 fps. The Crosman 2250XT is around 550fps in .22 cal. It packs a nice punch. And, the 2240 (.22) pistol is fun.

 

[Foxtrot]

If you do meet whatever local standards are in place and decide to build a firearms range, I suspect you may be opening up several other cans of worms in terms of insurance and environmental considerations.

What will happen to your homeowners insurance if the company finds out you have built a rifle range in your back yard?

Will a bunch of environmental remediation issues come up if you ever want to sell your house?

These are things to consider. I know my local gun club has to readdress these every few years. (And we now have a 50ft earthen berm downrange, 20 ft high 1/2" steel plates on the sides, and 2X12 louvers over top such that it is just about impossible to put a bullet outside the range from the firing line.)

Generally, private personal ranges on personal property don't need to worry about remediation or environmental standards, unless they are within so many feet of a water source or a habitat for some type of protected species, or something like that, and not available to the public at large, not in a watershed, etc.... as it simply becomes private land use. It also depends on the state where you live too sometimes, some states are stricter then others.

Insurance though is another matter. You need to read your policy and talk to the insurance company for those. However, generally, if there are recognized "safeguards" standards (what the state sets as a requirement) in place it should not affect anything insurance wise as long as the house is not your backstop and you have followed all proper and required safeguard measures .

Liability is also a matter to consider. Its like having a tree in your yard, if the kids in the neighborhood come over and climb the tree and fall out and get hurt, your liable. Its the "attractive nuisance" thing. So even though the range is on your property, you have a liability issue if anyone gets hurt on it.

Thats the reason why I had to also put a six foot fence around my own range, and make sure the gate is secured every time I leave it. I also have to put out a sign that warns anyone that firing is in progress but I only have to do that because there is a temporary road to the range from the highway that I used for bringing in the dirt for the berms and once I get rid of that and put the fence back up there I don't need to do the sign any more.

The ironic thing is that once the fence was taken down and the road "kinda" plowed through and was in place, I need now to wait for permission from the county to remove or block the temporary road so thats what i'm waiting on there. Heck, the road is only about 40 yards long and is basically a graded off section of land, the blade only went over it like twice. The county did the road, they will do a temporary "short" road here for you for free if its for "land use access improvement" which is just a fancy cryptic way of saying "if we are bored that day and happen to be in the area and it doesn't take too long then sure we will let you get some use out of your tax dollars" but now that they did it you need their permission to remove it or block it, so thats what i'm waiting on now.

It brings up another point also, publically open approaches to the range. Generally, all public approaches to the range need signs warning that firing is in progress when the range is active even if it is on private land if the land is not fenced, but that depends on the state also. In mine I have to mark them but I only have the one with that temporary road so that will go away soon.

Something else too, in my state even private personal ranges are subject to inspection by the state for safety if they are within a certain distance of an inhabited area, well guess what also counts as an inhabited area - your own house even if you are not in it at the time. I knew about the inhabited area thing but did not realize my own house on my own property counted as an inhabited area for this purpose when I did my range. My range is just 23 yards shy of being outside the inhabited area range for my own house, its measured from the entrance to the range area which in this case is the gate on the fence. The inhabited area range is 300 yards. So, I actually had a state inspector come by and take a look, we fired a half case of ammo, we had some lunch, and got the seal of approval.

 

[Lost Lake]

Yeah, you can do it, but you have to restrict the shooting area to something that no bullets can escape from. Even with the tube arrangement, a low bullet that hits a rock can ricochet and go astray.

I agree to ask your insurance man for a quote to cover you at your range. I think you'll learn a lot and it won't cost you a nickel!

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

So, I actually had a state inspector come by and take a look, we fired a half case of ammo, we had some lunch, and got the seal of approval.

I agree that in most cases there would be no issues. But once one starts leaving a dense paper trail of permits and paperwork for your backyard range, you never know what may become an issue down the road.

Even with the tube arrangement, a low bullet that hits a rock can ricochet and go astray.

I was thinking about this because it seems like a cool idea. Would there be a risk that the tube would actually serve to funnel ricochets back at the shooter?

 

[Big Cholla]

GKH: My father's construction company built an enclosed range right at the edge of Las Vegas (now right down town) that was part and parcel of a new home construction job. The owner was a champion rated three position .22LR galley range shooter. The shooting lane was built from 4 ft. dia. concrete conduit from a local manufacturer. The shooter's position was in the new house basement and the conduit was buried just below yard grade. It terminated in a large utility vault with a manhole cover above. The neighbors never knew it was there or that he was shooting .22LRs in it.

From that experience, I suggest you contact the concrete conduit makers for several cities around and ask the price of 'seconds'. They come in many lengths, but 6 ft., 8 ft. and 10 ft. are common. It just might be possible to lay a 4' concrete conduit along one side of your field for 50 yds. Put a shooter's pit at one end and a flat bottomed "V" out of railroad ties at the other. Push dirt up behind the wall built of ties. Fence off the light gap so no unsuspected person could wander into the line of fire. Once a range like that was built you could shoot any .22 LR or .22 Mag without a problem. The target end could have a built-in bullet trap to eliminate any lead contamination of your grounds. Put a concrete floor at the shooter's end and build a movable benchrest that could be pushed up in position or away as desired. By adding a few of the correct lights you could shoot well into the evenings.

You should check out the 'seconds' on concrete conduit. The price might be much more reasonable than you would expect. The imperfections could be taken care of by the use of concrete patchcrete.

 

[Zeppelin77]

GOOGLE "BOX OF TRUTH" if you are set on it and only you shoot there at your own risk . I built mine using play 300lbs of play sand and used 2x8s instead of thew 2x6s to make the box and it was 3x4 square. Directly behind my target box I have almost a mile before houses. To the right of my back lot and 500ft down a hill 200ft right of box which is sixty foot below the box there is a house. Nothing will go through the box but maybe a 50cal. but I am only using the 15 22 now just to be safe and no pistols either. Mostly shooting at only fifty yards but have did a 100 yds a couple of sessions and always on the paper.

 

[Zeppelin77]

The Box O' Truth #7 - The Sands O' Truth - Page 1
Here is the link and good info.

 

[GKH]

The Box O' Truth #7 - The Sands O' Truth - Page 1
Here is the link and good info.

That's neat! But; there are just too many 'what ifs'. Very unlikely that there might be a stray round, or ricochet, I suppose. But, I'm not risking it. I'll set up a back stop at 50-65 yds. And, probably buy that shooting table by Shooters Ridge. But, I will remain shooting just my air rifles out back.

Besides the indoor ranges in the Memphis area, there is plenty of country out my direction (I'm 45 miles east of Memphis), that I can find to shoot my 15-22. Plus; the Moose Lodge has over 7 acres just 7.5 miles away. They even have skeet comp. there on occasion. Shooting the 15-22 on that land would be nice.

The only outdoor shooting range in the area is the MSSA (Mid South Shooting Association). And, they have it all! Long range, high powered rifle shooting to much shorter handgun lanes. And, they have an area for Skeet. However; to join you're looking at $400+ with a monthly fee. The whole thing is a bit steep for me.

 

[Foxtrot]

I agree that in most cases there would be no issues. But once one starts leaving a dense paper trail of permits and paperwork for your backyard range, you never know what may become an issue down the road.

Its better then the issue of having the state come out and fine you for not having the inspection. Inspection costs nothing, fines range in the thousands plus you can't use it which effectively negates the ability to shoot on your own land. Plus, if something does happen the inspection helps mitigate the legal consequences for law suits, awards are heftier because not getting the inspection represents a wilful disobiedence of the law. There wasn't a permit needed, its just the inspection. Had I gone just about 24 more yards the inspection would not have been required. Heck, its only every two years anyway. There are a lot more consequences to not having the paperwork then there is for having it.

Not sure why people are afraid of having some type of paperwork trail for it anyway. I can't find one reference anywhere that a government agency, anywhere in the U.S., has prohibited or decomissioned a legally constructed and operated private or public range unless it was unsafe in some way, and safety is not such a bad thing when you realize the consequences of not being safe.

When you have a firearm in your hands, your just not accepting responsibility for your own safety. Sure, its fun, but the majority of people do not realize that the law does not view it as fun, they view it as firearm use and when you pick up that weapon the law automatically places upon you the responsibility for the safety of anyone, anywhere, and their property, that may be in the path of that bullet and it does not matter if you can see them or not or even if you know they are in the path of the bullet or not. Thats the reason they set such standards for firing ranges, its not to be a pain or infringe on your "liberty" in some way, its to help ensure the safety of those others and mitigate the possibility of injury to them.

 

[Foxtrot]

The Box O' Truth #7 - The Sands O' Truth - Page 1
Here is the link and good info.

Hmmm...

"First, Tman shooting a 5.56mm XM-193 Ball out of a 20" AR15.

To our surprise, it completely disintegrated and we only found very small pieces of jacket.

It did not even reach the back of the box. "

They were suprised that the 5.56mm XM-193 "disintegrated" and did not reach the back of the box?

Why the suprise, its suppose to "disintegrate" under such impact conditions. It didn't "disintegrate" at all, it fragmented just like its suppose to do, they just didn't find all the fragments. They don't realize this? It suprises them? They are testing ammunition penetration and they don't know or understand the characteristics of the ammunition they are using?

The M-193 bullet primary wounding mechanism is fragmentation. Without the fragmentation it would cause very little "stopping" damage because of its small size (which is why most .22 rounds are not good self defense stopper rounds). The round is designed to fragment and do the two things needed for stopping power (hopefully at least, sometimes the rounds do not perform as intended):

1. Penetrate deep enough to get to major organs or blood vessels and disrupt the tissue of those structures.

2. Cause significant damage to the Central Nervous System, or cause enough loss of blood to shut down the targets brain functions.

It sounds to me that the round performed as intended, so why are they suprised?

Had the round not fragmented and did reach the back of the box it would have meant the round did not perform as it was intended to perform. There should have been no suprise here at all from them as to what they found had they known the characteristics of the ammo they were using.