I'm gonna guess that fella's forum name has some meaning . . .
Being a good shot you could fail to get your CCL !!
- Thread starter Whitwabit
- Start date
I'm gonna guess that fella's forum name has some meaning . . .
I'm sure he'll be along in a little while . . .
Pay attention.
ispcapt knows that of what he speaks. And you should seek a professional instructor who knows the 'law.' Clearly, yours does not.
Be safe.
ispcapt knows that of what he speaks. And you should seek a professional instructor who knows the 'law.' Clearly, yours does not.
Be safe.
the law : you just don't pay 300 dollars and get an instructor License
c) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor shall:
(1) be at least 21 years of age;
(2) be a legal resident of the United States; and
(3) meet the requirements of Section 25 of this Act,
except for the Illinois residency requirement in item (xiv) of paragraph (2) of subsection (a) of Section 4 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act; and any additional uniformly applied requirements established by the Department.
(d) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor, in addition to the requirements of subsection (c) of this Section, shall:
(1) possess a high school diploma or high school
equivalency certificate; and
(2) have at least one of the following valid firearms
instructor certifications:
(A) certification from a law enforcement agency;
(B) certification from a firearm instructor
course offered by a State or federal governmental agency;
(C) certification from a firearm instructor
qualification course offered by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board; or
(D) certification from an entity approved by the
Department that offers firearm instructor education and training in the use and safety of firearms.
_____________________________________________________-
(c) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of certification by a certified instructor that the applicant passed a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm consisting of:
(1) a minimum of 30 rounds; and
(2) 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds
from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Department.
(d) An applicant for renewal of a license shall provide proof of completion of a firearms training course or combination of courses approved by the Department of at least 3 hours.
(e) A certificate of completion for an applicant's firearm training course shall not be issued to a student who:
(1) does not follow the orders of the certified
firearms instructor;
(2) in the judgment of the certified instructor,
handles a firearm in a manner that poses a danger to the student or to others; or
(3) during the range firing portion of testing fails
to hit the target with 70% of the rounds fired.
c) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor shall:
(1) be at least 21 years of age;
(2) be a legal resident of the United States; and
(3) meet the requirements of Section 25 of this Act,
except for the Illinois residency requirement in item (xiv) of paragraph (2) of subsection (a) of Section 4 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act; and any additional uniformly applied requirements established by the Department.
(d) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor, in addition to the requirements of subsection (c) of this Section, shall:
(1) possess a high school diploma or high school
equivalency certificate; and
(2) have at least one of the following valid firearms
instructor certifications:
(A) certification from a law enforcement agency;
(B) certification from a firearm instructor
course offered by a State or federal governmental agency;
(C) certification from a firearm instructor
qualification course offered by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board; or
(D) certification from an entity approved by the
Department that offers firearm instructor education and training in the use and safety of firearms.
_____________________________________________________-
(c) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of certification by a certified instructor that the applicant passed a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm consisting of:
(1) a minimum of 30 rounds; and
(2) 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds
from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Department.
(d) An applicant for renewal of a license shall provide proof of completion of a firearms training course or combination of courses approved by the Department of at least 3 hours.
(e) A certificate of completion for an applicant's firearm training course shall not be issued to a student who:
(1) does not follow the orders of the certified
firearms instructor;
(2) in the judgment of the certified instructor,
handles a firearm in a manner that poses a danger to the student or to others; or
(3) during the range firing portion of testing fails
to hit the target with 70% of the rounds fired.
The professional instructor I received my training from was a Deputy Sheriff ( 40 years as a deputy) he used the same method of counting individual holes for your score for qualifying .. And I do believe he knows the law !!! the same method of counting qualifying as the instructor Saturday say they were told to do !!!
Edit : The course I took for my Illinois Conceal Carry was not only approved by the ISP but also a committee at Illinois Central College where it was taught had to approve the curriculum of the course ..
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It's amazing....
It's amazing how easily something becomes an urban myth.
Some years back word went around that you shouldn't burn your headlights at night because it will 'wear out your battery'. Sure enough, SOME people mostly young people, were caught driving without their lights and when stopped explained that they heard that driving with the lights on would wear the battery out.
One time a guy told me that the old signs "Speed checked by meter" meant that they could trick you by measuring your speed using the metric system.
Oh, that leads me into the old belief that putting tinfoil behind your hubcaps would 'jam' police radar.
It's amazing how easily something becomes an urban myth.
Some years back word went around that you shouldn't burn your headlights at night because it will 'wear out your battery'. Sure enough, SOME people mostly young people, were caught driving without their lights and when stopped explained that they heard that driving with the lights on would wear the battery out.
One time a guy told me that the old signs "Speed checked by meter" meant that they could trick you by measuring your speed using the metric system.
Oh, that leads me into the old belief that putting tinfoil behind your hubcaps would 'jam' police radar.
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Well, all I have to add . . .
You know what they call the doctor who graduated last in his class?
You know what they call the doctor who graduated last in his class?
Threads like this remind me how nice it is to live in a free state.
I believe this may be instructor paranoia, which stems from reports of fraud and a subsequent Illinois State Police investigation in 2014.
Illinois State Police Press Release
Illinois State Police Press Release
Sorry if you don't like the truth. Your instructor has no business teaching anything if that's the way he teaches. If you have no reason to doubt him then you need to do more research because what he told you simply is not true.
That's the problem with people teaching these courses and some who take them. There are some real goofs. People think because they pay someone a couple hundred dollars that the person teaching them knows what they're talking about. This case is a perfect example showing that is not the case. And it's an erroneous assumption on your part. Clearly your instructor doesn't. Then you have to ask yourself if your instructor is so ill-informed and lacking in knowledge in that just how many other things did he teach that was also equally wrong. Too bad you can't get your money back from that class.
If your instructor is teaching as you said and saying the things he did then he has no business teaching. My previous comments concerning your instructor remain.
That is one problem with IL's CCW training. There is no set criteria for the class. Pretty much whatever the instructor wants to puke out as his own opinion is that instructor's course. So every 'expert' who reads all the grocery store gun rags and now thinks he's some tactical gun slinging expert can get his license to put on a class. Then, as has been demonstrated, people who don't know diddly about it take his class and believe every word the instructor says. The instructor doesn't know what he's talking about and the people taking the class know even less so they believe him.
Sorry but none of the instructors have been told that. If he told you that then he's MSU, either intentionally or because he doesn't know. Either way he's wrong. Tell him to show you the paperwork that gave him that instruction. I can assure you it did not come from the ISP. Oh I know, he'll say he talked to someone at the ISP. No paperwork. He's full of it if that's the case.
Your comment that all instructors are scoring that way is simply not true. In fact, he's the only one I've heard donig it that way. That simply is not the way you score targets whether it be for CCW training or competition matches. If he told you that then you got a goof for an instructor and you just keep proving it. Ask for a refund. I would not want that guy testifying for me if I was involved in a civil case.
Rick_A
Member
Fail?
G.T. Smith
US Veteran
If a ragged hole is bad, then I must have really impressed them when I shot for my CCW.
Peace,
gordon
Peace,
gordon
You can't prove a negative. There is nothing existing that confirms what you say is true. All I can say is there's no direction to IL CCW existing anywhere related to your story. If there's nothing there i can't show you a nothing.
It's your story. Provide proof other than what your claim a CCW instructor said. The story has more holes in it than your target. You just don't know enough about the topic to realize it.
Let me help you out since you obviously don't have a clue about how to do research nor your way around state govt.
Your state rep won't know diddly about it. They'll just refer you to the ISP.
Do a FOIA request to the ISP. Just a basic letter saying that you're requesting whatever under FOIA.
I'll help you out a bit more and speed along your answer. You'll get an answer to your FOIA saying there is nothing giving any such direction to IL CCW instructors.
Way back in my crime fighting days I was handy with my M10, 4" , heavy barrel. At least I thought I was. Shot 300 regularly on the G Man silhouette...white guy with a suit and tie. (Interestingly, no one thought that was politically incorrect.) Range officer took a look at my target and said 'let's shoot, only tie hits count.' I shot about a 200; he shot the knot off the tie. Reckon he would fail if he shot the course the OP 'instructor ' oversees.
Be safe.
Be safe.
Sundancer2004
Member
Fella next to me hada lil flnch, so I dumped two into his target
The following is the answer I received today on the question of how the shooting qualification is scored .. And it does seem that under a instructors discretion you could fall !! It is also stated that the instructors are trained and not just given their instructors license after paying a fee !!
Dear XXXXXXXX,
The scoring criteria is presented in the Firearms Concealed Carry Act, as you have acknowledged in your email. The instructors are required to score the the qualification shoots as ordered in the Act. However, the Illinois State Police does not provide a precise method to instructors on how to handle rounds that penetrate the same entry location on the target. The certified instructors have all been trained to a certain degree on how to handle these scenarios. They are allowed to use their discretion. If a student questions the scoring, they should direct their question to their instructor first and foremost. Thank you.
Illinois State Police
Firearms Services Bureau
Concealed Carry Section
Dear XXXXXXXX,
The scoring criteria is presented in the Firearms Concealed Carry Act, as you have acknowledged in your email. The instructors are required to score the the qualification shoots as ordered in the Act. However, the Illinois State Police does not provide a precise method to instructors on how to handle rounds that penetrate the same entry location on the target. The certified instructors have all been trained to a certain degree on how to handle these scenarios. They are allowed to use their discretion. If a student questions the scoring, they should direct their question to their instructor first and foremost. Thank you.
Illinois State Police
Firearms Services Bureau
Concealed Carry Section
