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Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk
Bekeart Front Sights
- Thread starter jimbo56
- Start date
Sorry I'm a little late to this party but I've been crazy busy working on my house and Ralph thanks for the glowing accolades. I am by no means an expert but merely an obsessed observer.
The first shipment of 1,050 guns does contain some with the Patridge front sight and the square notch rear.
The letter posted by RKMesa states that his gun shipped with the Patridge front sight so it should have the square notch rear. The letter contains an error in that it states that this gun was part of a 59 gun shipment. Based on subsequent research we now know that the 6-30-1911 shipment was for 60 units and not 59. The original count in the early books states a total of 292 guns to Bekeart and we now know this to be 294 as follows:
The five shipments were: 6-7-1911 30, 6-22-1911 60, 6-28-1911 60, 6-30-1911 60, 8-31-1911 50 and 10-13-1911 34. Total of 294.
I own 138289 that shipped in the 6-30 shipment that has a Patridge front sight and I see 138649 from that same shipment also having the Patridge front sight.
In addition the first run of 1,050 guns, as stated, Bekeart only received 294 with the rest shipping to other distributors of the day as early as 6-16-1911 only 9 days after Bekeart's first shipment on 6-7-1911.
As I have stated several times before, this begs the question as to the story that Bekeart was forced to place an order for 1,000 guns in order to convince S&W to build a .22 caliber revolver on their larger .32 caliber I frame.
If this story is true then somehow either Bekeart or S&W realized early on that he could not sell all 1,050 of the first guns produced as shipments to other dealers began only 9 days later.
I would love to find correspondence between Bekeart and S&W from this time frame but so far nothing has surfaced.
We may never know the true story behind the origin of this revolver but we can only hope that someday something surfaces.
If anyone owns one of these revolvers, especially those with the left stock bottom imprint number, I would love to add the details to the database. I do not keep any owner information and only store details about the gun.
The first shipment of 1,050 guns does contain some with the Patridge front sight and the square notch rear.
The letter posted by RKMesa states that his gun shipped with the Patridge front sight so it should have the square notch rear. The letter contains an error in that it states that this gun was part of a 59 gun shipment. Based on subsequent research we now know that the 6-30-1911 shipment was for 60 units and not 59. The original count in the early books states a total of 292 guns to Bekeart and we now know this to be 294 as follows:
The five shipments were: 6-7-1911 30, 6-22-1911 60, 6-28-1911 60, 6-30-1911 60, 8-31-1911 50 and 10-13-1911 34. Total of 294.
I own 138289 that shipped in the 6-30 shipment that has a Patridge front sight and I see 138649 from that same shipment also having the Patridge front sight.
In addition the first run of 1,050 guns, as stated, Bekeart only received 294 with the rest shipping to other distributors of the day as early as 6-16-1911 only 9 days after Bekeart's first shipment on 6-7-1911.
As I have stated several times before, this begs the question as to the story that Bekeart was forced to place an order for 1,000 guns in order to convince S&W to build a .22 caliber revolver on their larger .32 caliber I frame.
If this story is true then somehow either Bekeart or S&W realized early on that he could not sell all 1,050 of the first guns produced as shipments to other dealers began only 9 days later.
I would love to find correspondence between Bekeart and S&W from this time frame but so far nothing has surfaced.
We may never know the true story behind the origin of this revolver but we can only hope that someday something surfaces.
If anyone owns one of these revolvers, especially those with the left stock bottom imprint number, I would love to add the details to the database. I do not keep any owner information and only store details about the gun.
General question:
Patridge = square notch rear sight
Paine = U notch rear sight
Generalization.
But is this ALWAYS true as shipped from the factory, or not? Even though it makes sense.
If so, then if we see a Paine front sight paired with a square notch rear sight or a Patridge front sight paired with a U notch rear sight, we can assume a non factory alteration occurred?
Patridge = square notch rear sight
Paine = U notch rear sight
Generalization.
But is this ALWAYS true as shipped from the factory, or not? Even though it makes sense.
If so, then if we see a Paine front sight paired with a square notch rear sight or a Patridge front sight paired with a U notch rear sight, we can assume a non factory alteration occurred?
That would be my understanding. Since the Paine or Sheard bead front sights are very thin by nature it would make sense to have a matching width rear sight or centering would become a mere guess. It is also understandable that if the wider Patridge front sight sight was installed one would need the wider rear sight as looking at it through the narrow U shaped sight would require guessing when it was centered.
The Sheard and IIRC the Marble front sights were available from S&W and I'm guessing could be installed by request. Pinning in the Paine or the Sheard bead would not really require any additional time or expense so probably done for free.
Nothing received......
I have 2 hft’s 1 #163507 shipped in 1912 with square notch and the other #279472 with U notch. Both have the Paine front site. The earlier gun has the 2 screw grip and the other service grip. The early gun has a number on the grip 1307 and was delivered to Hibbarb, Spencer, and Bartlet in Chicago.
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Can you post detailed photographs of the front sights and which front sight is on the same revolver as the rear sight depicted? Presumably, we would see some evidence that the revolver with the square notch has a replaced front sight, this having previously been a Patridge. Maybe…or maybe not.
Yes additional photos would be great. Is there debris in the left hand notch? It almost looks like a U notch. Square notches are typically wider than that.
I've never shot this gun, but yes, it is way off to the right. I only noticed it this morning when I took the photos. I grabbed my dinky screwdrivers and I did not have one that fit. At some point, I will run down a screwdriver that fits and re-center it...
Screwdrivers that fit---and are actually easy and effective to use (as opposed to "Jeweler's Screwdrivers" which can only be held with fingers) may be had at Lowes. The name is Precision Screwdriver Set---the part number is 0525844. The price is dirt cheap, suggesting they're junk. I've been using mine for a loooooooooooong time, and they remain "good to go". You'll find two of the four flat blade tools included will fit any/all of the pre-war sight screws to be found.
Ralph Tremaine
Speaking of pre-war sight screws, those which attach the sight assembly to the top strap of pre-war hand ejectors. ALL of them seem to be frozen in place. Here's how to get them "unfrozen": Elevate the sight carrier so as to expose the channel for the sight tang underneath. Secure the gun with the front end lower than the hind end---stick the grip frame in a vise. Pour a dose of your favorite "unsticker" juice into the channel. (Kroil's the best.) To state the obvious, the "unsticker" juice is going to flow unobstructed DIRECTLY to the screw threads---and do its thing--and it's going to do it a damn sight faster than if you'd poured the juice on the screw head---again---and again----and again!
"Try it, you'll like it!"
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Both guns have same front site but maybe I’m using the wrong name. And a closeup of the U
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Those front sights are both of the Paine style.
