best .410 home defense ammo for taurus judge??

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Most arguments of "stopping power" seem to mean "Kill power". If I'm using a .410/.45 revolver I'm not trying to kill. I only want to stop the attack. If I truly want to kill I'm shooting something with a 7.62 mm slug MINIMUM through a 14 inch barrel or longer. (30.06 is my first choice)
If I'm using a handgun my preferred results are 1:The sight of the handgun will give the perp second thoughts, 2:One shot will be enough to cause them to flee whether they are hit or not, 3:If I have to shoot them it will slow them down so I can get away or, if in my home, they will be disabled from further action.
Two things I would prefer to avoid 1:An extended gun battle, 2:Killing another person, even if I am "in the right". That is why I would be inclined to fire multiple rounds of shot or a self defense disk/shot round in a handgun.
Just my thoughts, take it for what it's worth.
 
I have recently switched to a governor as my main HD handgun. Over penetration was one of the reasons as I have kids as well. However, as has already been stated, any round that will be terminally effective on a human being will go through drywall. Even the .410 buckshot. Shot placement is very important.

I keep mine loaded with 3 rounds of Federal 000 buck and 3 rounds of Underwood .45 colt maximum expansion every other round. The penetration on the Colt isn't too impressive, however they expand to about 1.7". My hope is that should a shot not be true that if it does go through 4-6 layers of drywall that it will have lost some velocity.

I use the Federal over the PDX1 because I had a round that I put in my Bond arms that was a dud. All the boxes of Federal I used have fired. The only issue I had was once I had to use a pencil to extract a case. The rounds in that box were a little out of spec. They all went bang though.

I did a google search once and found 2 instances of Federal 000 buck being used to stop a car jacker. In both of them it was one shot and the perp was worm food. I know one of the guys used the 3" Federal shell and all 5 hit. 3 in the chest area and 2 in the throat if I recall correctly. Both uses were also with a Bond arms which has an even shorter barrel to build velocity. Granted both shootings were at near contact distance so keep that in mind too.

For me personally I feel that inside my home the distance I would shoot if need be would be close enough. I love my family and if someone enters my home I am going to find and engage for fear of my children being hurt. I live in the country and have long guns and other fire arms should I need a longer shot. I wouldn't go outside with my Governor except for a poisonous snake. It would be either my 870p, my 92, .300 blk pistol or an AR type rifle.

I also wouldn't carry a judge or governor on the street, at least not loaded with .410, and they would be harder to conceal. I do keep a bond arms loaded with .410 in my pocket or in a driving holster during road trips, but that is in addition to a 1911 on my hip. The derringer is just another option incase someone approaching gives off a bad vibe. I can stick my hand in my pocket and prepare without raising an alarm or clearing leather in case my judgement is wrong.

Please forgive me if my post is a little rambling. Just sharing my thought and opinions. And they are just that, opinions. You have to think and decide what is best for you and yours. Good luck and God bless.
 
Steven1952 said:
Most arguments of "stopping power" seem to mean "Kill power". If I'm using a .410/.45 revolver I'm not trying to kill. I only want to stop the attack. If I truly want to kill I'm shooting something with a 7.62 mm slug MINIMUM through a 14 inch barrel or longer. (30.06 is my first choice)
If I'm using a handgun my preferred results are 1:The sight of the handgun will give the perp second thoughts, 2:One shot will be enough to cause them to flee whether they are hit or not, 3:If I have to shoot them it will slow them down so I can get away or, if in my home, they will be disabled from further action.
Two things I would prefer to avoid 1:An extended gun battle, 2:Killing another person, even if I am "in the right". That is why I would be inclined to fire multiple rounds of shot or a self defense disk/shot round in a handgun.
Just my thoughts, take it for what it's worth.
Click to expand...

The whole point of "stopping power" is to rapidly incapacitate a bad guy, whether or not he lives or dies is irrelevant. Using weaker ammunition seems like a way to get into that extended gun battle you're trying to avoid (and still carries the possibility of killing the bad guy too).

If your goal is a less lethal option why not a shotgun with beanbags or maybe a Taser?
 
77blackcj5 said:
Probably not anything I'll ever have to worry about unless they make it all the way thru house into my bedroom door opening. Just thinking things out cause we suffered a break in last week while we were gone. We have since gotten adt security system installed. I just picked up a box of the federal handgun 000 buckshot it looks better than the pdx1. Just can't imagine a bg being able to take 5 rds of buckshot.
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If you have a Judge poly make sure you practice with many rounds first. That ammo, even though for handgun will bind up a judge poly. I discussed this on a Judge forum and is a major problem. I own one and have personally experienced it.
 
Some years back, I did some testing on various .410 buckshot loads. The ones with the 0000 shot patterned better than the one with the discs. May penetrate better as well.
 
I'd load it with whatever it takes to get it traded in on a realistic defensive weapon. If I was camping maybe it makes sense. I'm not opposed to radical approaches, but these revolvers are ugly and if they really don't get any power out of the shot shells...useless. It was an attempt to get something more for nothing extra and all succeeded in was creating something extra providing nothing more. It was aimed at the unprepared to create reassurance. Buy an AK pistol, it's more powerful and simpler to use and maintain...
 
forrestinmathews said:
I'd load it with whatever it takes to get it traded in on a realistic defensive weapon. If I was camping maybe it makes sense. I'm not opposed to radical approaches, but these revolvers are ugly and if they really don't get any power out of the shot shells...useless. It was an attempt to get something more for nothing extra and all succeeded in was creating something extra providing nothing more. It was aimed at the unprepared to create reassurance. Buy an AK pistol, it's more powerful and simpler to use and maintain...
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I disagree. The Judge et al do have a real niche. Shot loads for snakes, .45 Colt for self defense. There are some people, e.g., in urban apartments, with children, where penetration is a real issue, so a triple-ought buck load is rational.

But, yeah, all the other stuff is BS/marketing.
 
Gamecock said:
I disagree. The Judge et al do have a real niche. Shot loads for snakes, .45 Colt for self defense. There are some people, e.g., in urban apartments, with children, where penetration is a real issue, so a triple-ought buck load is rational.

But, yeah, all the other stuff is BS/marketing.
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I was joking about the AK pistol. If penetration is such an issue buy some sheets of AR 500 1/4" and put them in the drywall. That way when the shooting starts you can duck and be protected from over penetration.
 
People have been killing deer with the .410 for decades. Use buckshot or .45 Colt, and practice with whatever load you select. This is not really a bard decision. Anything lethal will penetrate drywall.
 
squidsix said:
People have been killing deer with the .410 for decades. Use buckshot or .45 Colt, and practice with whatever load you select. This is not really a bard decision. Anything lethal will penetrate drywall.
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You forget that is 410 out of a 18"+ barrel which is far different than 410 out of a handgun
 
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Ok, the .410 may not be the best defensive round to ever come down the pike. I would have never bought one of my own accord, but my late father in law wanted one which we gave him for Christmas a few years back. I have since inherited it along with all his other guns. Now, you would tell me that this revolver, which spits out 4 triple ought buck at a time is ineffective at the range of a few feet. It's been a few years since I've shot the Judge (2.5" cylinder, 3" barrel), but I distinctly remember seeing a very tight pattern at 10-15', and having the distinct feeling that I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that weapon. My thought is that any shot size smaller than BB is probably a no go except for snakes. Not sure how good it would be on snakes from a safe distance. Never tried any bird shot in it. I have some .45 Colt ammo for it, but I have better choices in that caliber for self defense. My question is, how many of the bashers have actually fired on of these guns? I have other guns on my nightstand as well, but the Judge might be my first choice in the event of an invasion. I don't have room on my nightstand for the riot gun or an AR. Both are available to repel boarders, but there are logistics that need to be overcome.
 
epj said:
Ok, the .410 may not be the best defensive round to ever come down the pike. I would have never bought one of my own accord, but my late father in law wanted one which we gave him for Christmas a few years back. I have since inherited it along with all his other guns. Now, you would tell me that this revolver, which spits out 4 triple ought buck at a time is ineffective at the range of a few feet. It's been a few years since I've shot the Judge (2.5" cylinder, 3" barrel), but I distinctly remember seeing a very tight pattern at 10-15', and having the distinct feeling that I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that weapon. My thought is that any shot size smaller than BB is probably a no go except for snakes. Not sure how good it would be on snakes from a safe distance. Never tried any bird shot in it. I have some .45 Colt ammo for it, but I have better choices in that caliber for self defense. My question is, how many of the bashers have actually fired on of these guns? I have other guns on my nightstand as well, but the Judge might be my first choice in the event of an invasion. I don't have room on my nightstand for the riot gun or an AR. Both are available to repel boarders, but there are logistics that need to be overcome.
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Nobody needs to shoot a handgun to understand it's capabilities. I'll take 16 rounds of 147gr HSTs anyday over a handful of 410s in a firearm that fits in the same footprint and reloads faster.

I could even carry 8 rounds of 230gr HSTs in a firearm that is quite a bit smaller and I'll trust 9, 40, or 45 HSTs anyday to get the job done.

These 410s are a far cry from someone's best option for self defense unless they are being attacked by snakes
 
Brasky said:
Nobody needs to shoot a handgun to understand it's capabilities. I'll take 16 rounds of 147gr HSTs anyday over a handful of 410s in a firearm that fits in the same footprint and reloads faster.

I could even carry 8 rounds of 230gr HSTs in a firearm that is quite a bit smaller and I'll trust 9, 40, or 45 HSTs anyday to get the job done.

These 410s are a far cry from someone's best option for self defense unless they are being attacked by snakes
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That is an incorrect statement. While conceptually simple, discharging a firearm is the ONLY way to truly understand the experience.

The snake statement is unfounded.
 
686-380 said:
That is an incorrect statement. While conceptually simple, discharging a firearm is the ONLY way to truly understand the experience.

The snake statement is unfounded.
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Shooting a firearm is the only way to find out if it is the right fit for you.

I don't need to shoot a firearm to know if the caliber is insufficient compared to other calibers in its class.
 
Poor response to the OP. He's asking about ammo, not your personal opinion on the weapon. It's like posting a Camaro question on a Mustang forum! I purchased one for my son for Christmas about 2 years ago. Not only can he use it as a home defense gun, but a snake shot gun (which I understand some other popular guns don't do well with). It's a .45 caliber handgun! Geeze! With a 3 inch barrel, why would I even remotely consider trading it for a 1.7 inch barrel .38 Special (except for the price of the ammo)? If it was just a Taurus oddity, maybe you could poo-poo the gun, but Smith makes essentially the same thing! I don't carry it every day, but it's loaded, in my night stand safe and if you come in to my house uninvited, I'll greet you with it in one hand and my SD9VE in the other. "If the right one don't get you, the left one will."
 
I bought the Remington Ultimate Defense Combo Pack - 20 Rounds for my S&W Governor. 10 each 45 Colt 230Gr. BJHP and 410 2.5" 1225 FPS Velocity 4 pellets 000 Buck.
This is my MBR HD gun with a staggered load 410-45C. The buckshot takes out the legs and the 45C takes out any further harmful action.
 
otasan56 said:
Looks like the birdshot load would not go thru a wall.
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Ballistic personal defense weapons work by penetration. If you don't got penetration, you don't got personal defense.
 
Peak53 said:
Since you have other options available, I would go with the .38 Special. Very few would argue with that choice.

BTW, have you fired a cylinder full of those buckshot loads? How fast can you get it back on target?
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No big hurry to get back on a target when the target is down and out after the first shot. :D
 
There are no guarantees in life.

Certainly no guaranteed one-shot stops.

And certainly no guaranteed hits.
 
Gamecock said:
"Want to stand in front of those first two?"

A question unrelated to self defense.
Click to expand...

I do see it as a related question...many times people will denigrate a round that they wouldn't in turn want to be used against them. I see that as a lot more relevant than bringing water balloons into the discussion...I may not really like being hit with a water balloon, but it is highly unlikely to do anything other than make me mad. That's the relevance here. A .410 shot shell fired at close range can have a devastating impact, like if fired into a car jacker's face, for example. In many other SD scenarios, other rounds are going to be much more effective, but if all you have is a .410 round in a Judge, then it is a lot better than nothing...or a water balloon.
 
IMHO, it's a whole lot more than " better than nothing ". I've done some informal testing on these rounds and definitely don't want to stand in front of one. Basically you have 4 .38 caliber balls that end up in a 2-1/2-3" pattern at 5-7 yards. Personally, I think it's pretty wicked.
 
I would merely offer my normal cautionary quip, when it comes to evaluating a cartridge's defensive capabilities--

--I don't know of anyone ever having been attacked by a block of ballistics gelatin.
 
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