Beware; Fake Smith Wesson boxes

Since he's been at it for years with Colt stuff, he's probably played out and now looking for new "fertile" ground. Also, the prices of what S&W boxes are getting on ebay these days no doubt finally drew his attention too.

Vintage Ruger will probably be next after us....
 
What is the alarm? Yes, it is wrong and illegal, But if you can not tell the difference, do some research. If you see a box like pic#1, alarms go off.
We have all had nice clean boxes, but oxidation plays a part here.
Im not worried in the least. Best.
 
I received an explanation from Dennis.

New message from: blovit
I buy Pistol collections and literature and Colt Grips and Smith & Wesson Pistol Boxes all over the USA ---As far as I know they are 100% original new old stock in every aspect and detail---I can only tell you what I know--I buy from some retired workers from Colt and S&W and Old Colt and Smith And Wesson Box Suppliers who still had old Box Inventories--The Colt and Smith & Wesson Retired Employee's tell me they got them where they worked & Supplier left over old stock --- I wasn't there to verify this?? May be some seconds??---But all my products look original to me and 100% mint old stock--Read my feedback on Gunbroker I am vikrant on Gunbroker and EBay I am blovit on EBay-- everyone is always happy with their purchase and I offer a 100% money back guarantee plus your postage back to me if your not 100% happy with your Purchase--Tks Dennis

I will let you be the judge.......
 
Just to clarify, all gun boxes aren't fakes. Maybe 10 years ago we had the market flooded with gold K32 boxes. I knew the one purveyor, it was Ray Brazile. He's passed on now, but I certainly wouldn't accuse him of any wrong doing. He had a box car or truck load of those items. I was convinced they were original, and I still am.

So keep your perspective in this. We're talking about a different critter. In the past I've bought prewar M&P boxes from Dan Tanko. I'm also convinced he had the real item. Everyone that sells old boxes isn't a crook.

Oh, and I really like RKMesa's prewar target M&P. I've got its twin brother but with an HBH. I think its beautiful.
 
Why would a former employee save boxes from that long ago.Only 30 years ago having a presentation case added only $50.00 to what you got for it. No one even asked if you had the box.
 
Why would a former employee save boxes from that long ago.Only 30 years ago having a presentation case added only $50.00 to what you got for it. No one even asked if you had the box.



And what box company warehouses unsold boxes (or manufactures them without an order that they would fill) for 50+ years? Doesn't pass the smell test.
 
Old cardboard boxes DO NOT store well unless kept in very unique conditions. As others have stated, who would save these for 30+ years? If you are making and selling boxes, you would limit your storage to those that were selling not those that were merely taking up shelf space for 30.

Even the S&W company who usually never threw anything away, began dumping old items. Especially after the family sold control of the company to outside interests.

Ask dumpster Don about dumpsters of blue and gold boxes that he saw in dumpsters at the factory. They are now rotting at the Springfield land fill along with tons of old parts.

People like Ray and Bill Orr were true collectors and had connections with the factory and very possibly were able to purchase NOS items prior to them being discarded.

This individual has no such relationship and his explanations are weak. Forum member club gun fan or dumpster don as we affectionately call him, sets up at every Big E gun show with a S&W table and has for the last 20 years. If any S&W employee had a stash of old boxes to sell, Don would have heard about it way before some guy from Sparta, Tennessee.
 
Not only that, but this guy has been apparently selling these for years. You'd think by now at least one of these "retired workers" "all over the USA" supplying him would have connections to collectors associations and stand up to vouch for the guy and put all the outrage and drama to rest, yet it all remains a mystery. :rolleyes:
 
I know nothing about the seller or his wares, but in my opinion the only effective way of restricting anyone's online selling activity is negative feedback and lots of it. Enough of this and the Internet sales sites will be forced to investigate, but they will not be interested in complaints from non-buyers, as it does not affect their bottom line or reputation.

Buy some items and prove they are faked, report it to the website - problem (possibly) solved. Caveat emptor in the meantime.
 
Boxes, paperwork, hangtags, packing paper,,it's all been repro'd and faked for a long time. The shotgun and rifle collectors have been buying it for years not knowing it when buying those minty boxed Winchesters, AH Fox, LC Smith and other collectibles.

I don't trust anything I see anymore nor most of the people selling it.
You get that way after seeing the other side of the business,
 
My 2 cents worth: As long as I can remember, collectors and dealers have sought boxes and or replacement boxes for certain guns that were of a higher value but had no box. The first I remember was the mass production of the craft / kraft (which is the correct spelling) boxes for the Colt 1911s, which is a certain type press-board covered and adhered with an overlay of craft / kraft paper. I can remember the boxes being offered at least 40 years ago.

For the major part of my life I restored vintage automobiles and in doing so met many owners of classic automobiles that appreciated fine work, thereafter asking me to restore interior wood-working on older yachts (e.g. Hatteras, etc.)

In doing so, at times, certain sections of certain types of wood or gauge sheet metal had to be recreated to match the original which was no longer in production. Geeeze, Jay Leno keeps a master craftsman, in house, to roll out new fenders from flat sheet metal to hand and machine roll and bend this metal to specific 1920s 1930s automobiles.

Most of the items I actually re-created were Rolls-Royce and Bentley interior wood dash trim panels, since there was either NO replacement available from Rolls Royce or the cost was so prohibitive, it was more cost effective to have the existing wood "restored" which included full or partial hand manufactured and sculpted, matching panels.

For the past 3 or 4 years there have been a few sellers offering Colt label reproductions, then boxes. Over the years they seem to keep getting better and better quality. If offered a reproduction part or component of ANYTHING ... that item being offered and accepted as reproduction or restorative part ... what's the crime ? Aren't there quite a few skilled craftsman that restore original boxes ?

After you purchase a reproduction / restoration quality box or labels it is up to YOU .... when or if you again sell that box, with or without the correct gun inside it, to disclose the box is not "the" box the gun left the factory in, but rather an artfully manufactured restorative quality, reproduction box.

HOW long have a hand full of sellers offered re-printed S&W box end labels (the type that penned in model and serial number are place) ? I have been offered S&W's in boxes with replacement labels from collectors i would have never thought would subscribe to the practice and ... in my humble opinion ... if the label wasn't a poor copy but a more artfully produced exact recreation of the actual S&W label, (with either the watermark and / or whatever they did to get a translucent, holographic type appearing, S&W emblem as the later S&W labels had) I might try a few myself.

I have bought and sold S&Ws that were not in "the" box they left S&W in but rather the correct type and vintage genuine S&W box. Heck, we all have at one time or another. We KNOW it's not "the" box but rather either a similar or correct vintage and model type. Boxes, alone, are a huge collecting interest.

Face it, everyone would prefer to have "the" original box. If not the original then a reproduction or restorative quality might be okay if you subscribe to the practice, even if for only a display item ... but .... it's impossible to find "the" exact box, an artfully reproduced restorative copy of the original box might be OK ... only IF (and I repeat ONLY IF) there is no intended to deceive nor false witness given to insinuate that the restorative quality box is being represented as "the" original box .... what is the harm ?

HOWEVER .... (big HOWEVER here) .... if someone or anyone is doing this deceitfully and mis-representing the product, then that would be (at minimum) DECEITFUL,if not outright fraudulent.

But SERIOUSLY .... who, in their right x&*$#= mind, pays a mere pittance of $165.00 for a Python (or other Colt / SW rare box with all the paperwork), with the correct computer or hand generated, vintage correct, serial numberl and model number correct label created for you (bar codes and all) and even remotely think it is original ?

Face it, his Colt boxes look pretty darn good. I haven't seen any of his S&W offerings, though.

Years back, if I recall correctly, a member researched (very well as it seems) the company that produced the original Gutta-Percha S&W pistol boxes ... and ... IIRC reproduced some gutta-percha or gutta-perhca-like boxes with the molds ? What was the harm if represented for sale of what it truly is ?

In parting, if the box is not represented as "the original" box the gun came in, and the buyer realizes (if nothing more than by the price alone) it is an artfully recreated REPLACEMENT box, then, no harm, no foul, i think.

PS: I have a few original, vintage, boxes of the 1920s to 1950s that I suspicious that the machine printed label may have been run off on a copier on similar paper and affixed with similar type commercial adhesive. Then again, S&W would cross off a label that was 6' and overwite 4", or stamp the work TARGET on the end label and so many other idiosyncratic on S&W boxes that I accept as 100% authentic.
 
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Just to clarify, all gun boxes aren't fakes. Maybe 10 years ago we had the market flooded with gold K32 boxes. I knew the one purveyor, it was Ray Brazile. He's passed on now, but I certainly wouldn't accuse him of any wrong doing. He had a box car or truck load of those items. I was convinced they were original, and I still am.

So keep your perspective in this. We're talking about a different critter. In the past I've bought prewar M&P boxes from Dan Tanko. I'm also convinced he had the real item.

Oh, and I really like RKMesa's prewar target M&P. I've got its twin brother but with an HBH. I think its beautiful.

Yes the 32 boxes are real. There is a way you can tell that they are. Ray didn't have a box car or truck load.
"Everyone that sells old boxes isn't a crook."yes, but everyone that sells fake boxes as real is. Why does this guy want your serial number. He doesn't correctly describe the writing instrument used to write the serial number on the bottom of the box. If he was an expert he would know.
 
Dennis has been, as others have mentioned, lying about his products for years. I have seen a bill of lading for him for hundreds of pounds of paper products coming from China. The man is a flat out liar, thief and con man. Not everybody can spot a fake. I am quite ignorant with Smith products so I would probably be fooled by some of his Smith stuff, but see his Colt **** all over online as well as big gun shows. I firmly believe that many people that have his junk don't know its fake. Obviously some do but the problem is many don't. The guy is a piece of cr@p and needs to get flushed down the toilet. There are a few players in the gun collecting business that I truly hate and Dennis Mills is in the top 2.
 

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