Wrong! If he infringes on their copyright they will be on him like ugly on a ape. No disrespect to apes, but you are ugly. I have seen it first hand. Why do you think these are being made where copyright and trademark laws mean nothing.
Beware; Fake Smith Wesson boxes
- Thread starter 410bore
- Start date
Wrong! If he infringes on their copyright they will be on him like ugly on a ape. No disrespect to apes, but you are ugly. I have seen it first hand. Why do you think these are being made where copyright and trademark laws mean nothing.
05CarbonDRZ
Member
Sorry to say,EBay will do Nothing.
DWalt
Member
It's a simple fact of life that such activities exist. It's also a fact that no one on this forum can do a single thing to stop it. So what exactly is the point of debating this any further?
Your wrong. If he is violating copyrights of Smith & Wesson they will go after him. Read my previous post about the clothing line.
I think that it helps us clarify our own ethical positions on these sorts of issues as well. Frankly, even though I had seen these products being peddled for colt products, I had just never given the issue much thought. These discussions allow us to exchange viewpoints, and flex our sense of ethics, and formulate some sort of reasoned ethos through articulating various perspectives. I hope that I have perhaps grown as a result of reading the views of posters who I respect, even when they are at odds with each other.
I know that there are legal issues at play, but the ethics of the thing is perhaps even more evasive.
Best Regards, Les
I know that there are legal issues at play, but the ethics of the thing is perhaps even more evasive.
Best Regards, Les
CATI1835
US Veteran
When I purchase a firearm, I buy the gun, not the box (or the story). I personally think people who buy boxes (or labels), because they think they must have them to go with the gun, are deluding themselves. They are naive in the extreme. I don't understand the rationale. With VERY rare exception, IMO, the box/label/paper add no value to the gun. The most valuable guns in the world have NO box or paper. Does that diminish their value? Quit buying this stuff and the product will disappear. Or if you just want a neat conversation piece, buy it with the full understanding it is a reproduction.
Actually, an original box and accessories adds quite a bit of value to already valuable guns, much the same way an original build sheet, window sticker and factory accessories adds additional value to already valuable collector automobiles. Furthermore, many of the most valuable guns ever sold have included the boxes and accessories. See here: The 7 Most Expensive Guns Ever Sold - TheRichest
Last edited:
Can someone post some comparison pics of these spurious Colt and S&W boxes? I would like to see the difference. Im looking at 70 years old, about 55 years in this hobby. I have never seen a box that did not have some little bit of wear and tear. I have owned some perfect guns and stocks. My uncle has a perfect cased C-93 Borchardt, that has never seen day light. It has sat on a shelf in his study. I would think, after a few years of collecting, you develop a 6th sense. If it dont look right, walk away. Best
CATI1835
US Veteran
I'm probably going to take some flak for this but here goes...
First, let me say I am not trying to defend this guy in any way. Period...
We generally agree that there are probably reproduction boxes. I say probably because neither you or I know for a fact these are not new. An opinion would stand for nothing in court.
These are being represented as "new old stock" not reproductions. I am not a lawyer. Someone give me the legal definition of "new old stock". I don't want a lay opinion, what you think it means. I know what it means to me and you know what it means to you. My neighbor down the road probably thinks differently than either of us.
Regarding copyright and trademark infringement. You can look this up yourself for the details but I will give you the 30,000 foot view:
IF S&W even took the time to copyright the logos and brochures, under the copyright act of 1909, they were only valid for 28 years. An extension could be filed before the expiration and they would be extended another 28 years. At that point, they are in the public domain. The law is different for copyrights after 1978. But since these all seem to be older logos/information, those rules do not apply.
I also feel that Colt or S&W would have already pursued action against him if there was true copyright infringement.
Bottom line, yes there seems to be a great deal of indignation if not downright hatred for this guy. You are free to feel any way you choose. But don't be too quick to accuse him of any illegal activity. Maybe a bit unethical but I'm not sure it is illegal. Again, I am not a lawyer.
If you don't like these, don't buy them. No one is putting a gun to your head and telling you to buy. If you feel your indignation is simply protecting the naive simpleton who believes these are real and will double the value of his K22 shooter, forget it. The world is full of people like that and you can't protect them. As the old saying goes, caveat emptor. Or as PT Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute".
Get over it, move on. This whole thread seems a tempest in a teapot to me.
First, let me say I am not trying to defend this guy in any way. Period...
We generally agree that there are probably reproduction boxes. I say probably because neither you or I know for a fact these are not new. An opinion would stand for nothing in court.
These are being represented as "new old stock" not reproductions. I am not a lawyer. Someone give me the legal definition of "new old stock". I don't want a lay opinion, what you think it means. I know what it means to me and you know what it means to you. My neighbor down the road probably thinks differently than either of us.
Regarding copyright and trademark infringement. You can look this up yourself for the details but I will give you the 30,000 foot view:
IF S&W even took the time to copyright the logos and brochures, under the copyright act of 1909, they were only valid for 28 years. An extension could be filed before the expiration and they would be extended another 28 years. At that point, they are in the public domain. The law is different for copyrights after 1978. But since these all seem to be older logos/information, those rules do not apply.
I also feel that Colt or S&W would have already pursued action against him if there was true copyright infringement.
Bottom line, yes there seems to be a great deal of indignation if not downright hatred for this guy. You are free to feel any way you choose. But don't be too quick to accuse him of any illegal activity. Maybe a bit unethical but I'm not sure it is illegal. Again, I am not a lawyer.
If you don't like these, don't buy them. No one is putting a gun to your head and telling you to buy. If you feel your indignation is simply protecting the naive simpleton who believes these are real and will double the value of his K22 shooter, forget it. The world is full of people like that and you can't protect them. As the old saying goes, caveat emptor. Or as PT Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute".
Get over it, move on. This whole thread seems a tempest in a teapot to me.
Leatherhead23
Member
Another report sent to eBay.
Hello CATI from Texas, no flak here. Every luxury item has been faked.
The Chinese are making 18K Rolexes that are stumping the factory.
I still want to see some pics.
The Chinese are making 18K Rolexes that are stumping the factory.
I still want to see some pics.
Regarding the debate here concerning this guy and counterfeits in general, it's obvious those with a "Who cares?" or "Get over it" attitude aren't collectors and those who aren't are never going to "get it" as to how damaging and harmful counterfeiting is to the hobby, legitimate businesses that cater to the hobby, etc.
For collectors, and there are many with sizeable sums invested, this is a quite serious matter.
For collectors, and there are many with sizeable sums invested, this is a quite serious matter.
Last edited:
No, I want to see the pics on this Forum. Comparison pics.
Yes, it is a serious situation. And we have to fight it and bring it to an end.
All groups of collectors have faced this problem. Artillery Luger collectors are legendary. Just look at 1903s and Garands. I dont even look anymore.
There are some mighty talented fellas out there. Very talented and crafty.
Yes, it is a serious situation. And we have to fight it and bring it to an end.
All groups of collectors have faced this problem. Artillery Luger collectors are legendary. Just look at 1903s and Garands. I dont even look anymore.
There are some mighty talented fellas out there. Very talented and crafty.
The boxes are well made but are not quite exactly like the factory boxes. Aside from the "Hot off the press" perfect condition of a 80+ year old box "sounding the alarm," An avid collector with a trained eye could tell something was amiss but a novice? I'm not sure.
I don't understand why you need to see pics of the boxes on the forum? Look at the link and then look at some pics of real McCoy boxes, or one of your own boxes, not that hard
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
My point exactly, gives the novice a perfect opportunity to visually compare the two. So, we agree, lets help the novice guy out.
Ok then if you want to help post some pics of some legit boxes and I'll add pics from the link.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kris, great offer. Im afraid Im a novice to the world of computers, and have not mastered that skill. I do not have the tools to do it. Mike
There is a school of thought, where comparing the copies to the "real McCoy" and pointing out their differences on a public forum, only helps the seller of the copies make his product better. Unfortunately, the less he knows about where the differences are, the better.
Similar threads
- Locked
