Big Bear, 44 carry.

[TheHobbyist]

I have been an active member on these boards for years...many as a paying member. This is my first commentary on this subject because many times it gets a little out of hand. Best gun...best cartridge...best...

A few years ago I was at a cabin up north, got lost (only logging roads...no signs to speak of that made sense) and I stepped out of my truck to, well, answer natures call on some bushes. I hop back in my truck with the wife and I look in the rear-view mirror and see a huge black bear. He was not scared of me and was more or less interested.

I only had a legal CCW 5 shot 38 special.

My grandad always told me that the noise alone in most cases would make them run. He was a WW2 vet and carried a Browning Hi-power he relieved from a German. He told me that the 9mm would do in a pinch and grandad usually carried a 30-06 with him in the woods. YMMV.

 

[RoyM52]

Personally for in my area, I would like to see some 44 mag poppers that explode at about 30 or 40 feet from muzzle. I think it would be better than Bear spray and work no matter where the wind was coming from. I don't want them to explode at too far a distance/beyond the bear and chase them at me. {like the handheld ones can} 30 or 40 feet would be just a bit before where a person would start on the deadly path. It would also allow for carrying spares for a second or third encounter if you are out for more than just a little time. Bear Spray is large to carry and once it's gone, you have to pack out the empty useless can. If you need it again....it's gone. I would gladly load a popper or two, and give up one or two rounds in order to have a deterrent for a distance before it turns into a have to kill situation. Your only ever likely to get to fire one or two rounds if it's from a justified killing distance anyway. The only reloading would be if you scared it off for a bit. {no reload for bear spray while on the trail}

A small note to this. unlike a popper for a shotgun. A popper in a revolver could be placed in the cylinder as the 3rd round. That way you would have hot loads if need quick or just cock the hammer and let down if you have a need for a scare and it's out a little way. Don't have to load first , like in a shotgun or unload to get to a popper. One tool, doing it all. As far as I know nobody makes these.

The searchable name for what I have been calling poppers is Bear Bangers. I would like the option for in a 44 mag, like in a shotgun

 

[RobertJ.]

Really? Think I'll be able to? LOL

Not if it's inadequate for a bear encounter!!!

I didn't state that any gun one might choose would be effective.

We all have to live with the choices we make.

Some guys are comfortable carrying a .32 auto for CCW.

 

[beagleye]

Some great input, and the years of experience really come thru. Can't thank y'all enough!

With all the great input in mind, my plan is to keep up practicing with my 1926, load with special attention to bear medicine. Meanwhile put out the antenna for a Redhawk in 44 mag. When I acquire that, start practicing and see how that goes and make a good an decision about switching after some trial and practice. I like any plan that ends in buying another gun. Meanwhile I do love my post war transitional 3rd. It's as accurate as I will ever be, it devours the Kieth load and what beauty.

Over and out good people!

 

[Mister X]

I think the greater concern would still be human threats and I would prioritize accordingly.

"As noted, black bears are generally not a huge issue and you could probably get away with most service calibers." -Dr.Gary Roberts(DocGKR).

FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

 

[Doug M.]

While I may not agree with Dave Keith on every issue every time he says (writes) something, I will emphatically say that I read and respect everything he says (writes) here. I like his revolver conversions, because I think they are great working guns for a guy who carries them seriously. I don't care at all about the occasional howls from the collectors.

When he has something to say about firearms use in dangerous encounters, one should listen. You don't have to agree, but it is always worthy of serious consideration, and not to be disregarded lightly.

 

[RETDOE]

Personally for in my area, I would like to see some 44 mag poppers that explode at about 30 or 40 feet from muzzle.

They make a 12ga round called a "bird bomb" Don't know if that's the official name or if they are even produced anymore but I've been hit by one during a training event. Hit in the knee, felt like being hit with a baseball bat, small flash bang, then felt like my knee was lit on fire.

 

[Mule Packer]

While I may not agree with Dave Keith on every issue every time he says (writes) something, I will emphatically say that I read and respect everything he says (writes) here. I like his revolver conversions, because I think they are great working guns for a guy who carries them seriously. I don't care at all about the occasional howls from the collectors.

When he has something to say about firearms use in dangerous encounters, one should listen. You don't have to agree, but it is always worthy of serious consideration, and not to be disregarded lightly.

First off, I really appreciate this forum. I love reading the various opinions from the great folks who frequent this forum. But, you have to admit, some of this stuff we read is just speculation or opinion. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Dave, on the other hand, has been there, done that, and gotten the t-shirt...several times over. He's cowboyed, led a packstring, and worn the badge. In any one of those venues, a guy is going to gain a heckuva lot of experience with firearms.

Like Mark Twain once said, "The man walking down the street carrying a cat by the tail will get ten times the experience than the man standing on the corner watching him." Dave has been "carrying the cat by the tail" for many years.

Like Doug M. said, you may not agree with everything Dave says, but it's always worth serious consideration.

 

[Imissedagain]

M460 Carry with the proper loads/holster.
Most everything else is old, outdated, and
sublimely surpassed.

My brother thought a bear would never bother him.... he was right for half a century and then he was wrong!!!

We sent a 629/4" to Denver last month.... chest holsters with lightweight jackets stand a bit proud.
G19 and G29 are popular for local hiking and are concealable.

The 629/4" and the 460 Snub are about the same length.
45LC Remington High Velocity 255gr LRN feels like a
38Spl 158gr TCBB with soft target load in the Colt DS.

 

[Imissedagain]

A short barreled 460 S&W Magnum double rifle would be nice.
Wonder if an old short barreled Winchester 24 could handle Brenneke slugs?

Always liked the idea of handgun/rifle combo.
The 460 Snub needs a Lever Gun..... ???

 

[Kurusu]

C'mon folks.

Bears are greatly misunderstood critters.

They're cuddly.And friendly.

The problem is...

Even when they are being cuddly and friendly they are vewy vewy dangerous.

Hey! Buddy! Wanna hug?

 

[DevilDog72]

I have been hunting Elk and Mule Deer in Wyoming and Colorado for close to 30 years and have had several encounters with Black bears.... each turned out with neither of us harmed. I have had 2 close encounters with them, both of which were un-nerving to say the least. The first encounter, I was bow hunting Up-state Michigan and was 15 feet up in a platform stand and could hear something milling around below me eating acorns before sun rise.... it had my full attention with hopes of a Muy Grande buck. As it got light I realized it was a big, to me, black bear. He made his way to the base of my tree and started to stretch.... he looked up and we were staring at each other. He was very curious... started to climb the tree watching me the whole way. Folks trees will not save you. I was getting pretty worried about his advances and just when I decided to draw my bow he decided to go back down the tree and slowly wandered off. I waited a long time in that tree to make sure he was gone.

My next encounter was in Colorado west of Montrose. I side hilled along a canyon for a ways and found a nice bench to over watch an elk wallow maybe 300 yards below me. I was sitting on a rock with my back against the canyon wall when I could hear something coming down the trail I just walked in on. I found myself listening and watching the trail harder and harder as I could hear the bear grunting and blowing. There was no where for me to go. I un-snapped my holster and drew my Mdl 19 sitting it close to hand and raised my rifle up just as the biggest bear I have ever seen came into view. It did not take him long to see me...he started rocking side to side and clacking his teeth together. He was less than 25 yards away. I decided if he took one more step in my direction I was going to open fire. Boys..... I wasssss not happy. We stayed that way for about 5 minutes, seemed like forever, then he turned and walked off. I went up that canyon wall like a mountain goat.
One more bear story.... never saw the bear, but, I got plenty worried anyway. Two years ago we were hunting Unit 61 west of Montrose Colorado in a trophy elk draw only area and I was driving down this dirt road just at dark to pick my uncle up when Mother Nature called. I stopped my truck got out and stepped into a pile of steaming fresh bear scatt. As I realized what I was standing in my head looked like an anti-air radar antenna swing around...forgot why I stopped and climbed back into my truck.... could not start it though because my Mdl 19 was firmly adhered to my right hand. I did not realize till then I had drawn it from my holster. I do carry a 357 with 180 gr. hard cast Buffalo Boar rounds in it. It is a backup to my .300 Win Mag.

That .357 is a lot more comforting than a stick or a knife or my faith in out running Mr. Bear.

 

[2sharp2]

Sometimes they hunt from a tree stand! lol

I would carry either magnum and bear spray.

 

[NCBeagle]

I've spent a fair amount of time hiking around far eastern North Carolina...by the Alligator Wildlife Refuge, surrounding swamps in Hyde and Tyrrell County. Loaded with black bear. I've seen as many as 33 in one weekend. By "seen," I mean had them step right out in front of me on the trail or walked within feet of them. I carry a 5" Model 629 Classic out there, as a matter of precaution, but have never pulled it. The bears have invariably run away when surprised or warily kept distance. In fact, the bears out that way tend to eat a lot of crops. Their poops look like piles of granola. I'd probably be in more danger if made of potato.

 

[roscoepc]

...sectional density for a 158 gr. 357 is .177 ...

...for the 240 44 it's .186...better but not much...

...300 grain 44s would be better at .233 ...

...the minimum for dangerous game is considered to be .300 ...pretty much impossible in a hand gun...

Impossible?? Really??? Try a 500gr Hornady XTP fired outta one of these....

 

[smoothshooter]

WOW ...carrying a .38 in bear country!

Brave man.

While not my first choice for black bear protection, I wouldn't feel insecure with some warmish .38 loads with 158 grain hard semi-wadcutters. They are very superior penetrators in tissue and bone, which makes it easier to reach things you want to puncture and break.
Of course, a .44 with the same type of bullet should be even better, but most people will place their shots more accurately with the .38 or .357.
9mm FMJ has stopped or prevented far more bear attacks than is generally known. Even with big bears.

 

[shooter1911]

As an avid Black Bear hunter I do like these handgun bear threads. I have been lucky and taken 2 large ones. The rug that lies now in front of my fireplace is 7'2" from nose to tail. Taken at 35 yards with a .375 H&H Mag. The 300 grain struck the right front shoulder and exited the left rear hip. The bear sat back on his rump and took off FAST! He didn't go far but he did go about 50 yards. If you have to hit a charging one with a little 44 you had better hit the brain. The big ones do not stop easy all the time.

old 1911 fan

You are absolutely right when you say "little 44". I have standardized on the Keith 250gr HC in my 629-5 Mountain Gun with 44 Special and 44 Magnum. The Special is loaded to about 900fps plus or minus, and the Magnum is at 1200fps. For me it's a last ditch head shooter just before I become a meal for Mr Bear. I am never in Griz country or I would carry something much bigger. Got rid of my super Blackhawk which was my hunting 44.

 

[Kanewpadle]

There are other reasons to carry enough gun when in the back country.

Many years ago my dad and I were moose and bear hunting hoping to get one of each. One morning we got in the boat at daybreak so we could try and catch one getting a drink. We saw a big bull moose and put the boat ashore. We proceeded to track the bull spaced about 70 yards apart.

There I was like a Elmer Fudd thinking I was going to get trampled because all I could see was alder and grass over six feet tall. I walked the game trail and could see where several moose had been bedded down. But still no bull. Around the next corner of the trail I came across a still steaming pile of bear poop.

So now I'm really nervous. Now I'm thinking I'm about to be eaten.

What seemed like hours was really about 20 minutes and I hear a shot. My dad shot something but what? I walked carefully to where he was and saw the moose on the ground dead.

They both surprised each other about ten yards apart. My dad only had time to draw his 44 mag with home grown 250 grain lead hard cast and shot the moose in the head. Dropped him right there.

Back then people only had access to 41 mag, 44 mag, 12 gauge, and 45-70 to use as a back up for hunting or fishing. It worked then and it still works now.

That was my first of many hunts. And you won't catch me with bear spray or a 40 short and weak for large game.

 

[Tom_R]

686 with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast 357's are my preferred load for trail/woods carry.

But my black bears in CT are typically smaller than a our Black Bears they are typically less than 250 lbs.

If you are somewhere that has larger Black Bears, you may want to go up to 41 or 44 Magnum.

44 Magnum is a lot to handle in a 3" or 4" gun, but if you have to use it to on a bear you will have so much adrenaline going through your body that there would be more worry about bending the trigger.

 

[Guevera]

...then there was that guy who used a Smith & Wesson 3953 9mm....

AK Guide kills Grizzly with S&W 3953