Blackjack, slapper, or SAP

[lkabug]

I carried Slapper in the early 60's well into the 70's. Came in handy getting someone to the nearest Call Box. Walking a footbeat, no radios. Just me and my partner, an a model 10-5, and a slapjack. Those were the days. I still have both, a 10 and 6 inch. Our pants had a special pocket for them

 

[Skeet 028]

68 FD pay was 6208 a year..We didn't get a lot after retirement medical taxes et al. My Dept provided our uniforms though...3 months later I got a raise to 6780 a year...72 hours a week. 11 bucks a week raise...Sittin on top of the world

 

[Iggy]

When I was on the WHP, we were issued LAPD Batons!
“Three from the ring,” first thrust straight to the throat, second to the face, third a vertical loop from the face to an upward stroke to the crotch.
Instructions were, If 3 from the ring doesn’t work, 6 from the holster!

 

[Rudi]

Those are cool. I have an ASP, and a 4 cell Mag Lite.

 

[Eric300]

Ah the good ol' days of LE when Saps, Billy Clubs and Brass Knuckles were standard issue equipment.....

 

[Iggy]

I forgot about Kel-lites. I threw mine at the windshield of a car that came through an icy accident scene and knocked me over a guardrail and down a snowy overpass slope.
Another Patrolman caught the car a few miles down the road when he saw the hole in the windshield, and found the light in the front seat when he pulled the car over.

A funny side to this story is the little old lady whose car was in the wreck was sitting in my patrol car.
When I managed to get back to the car and get in, she said “ That *** didn’t even slow down! Are we going after him? If you’re hurt I’ll drive!”

 

[dsf]

Y'all must be a law abiding lot, in general. Because I haven't heard anyone say how much they hurt on the receiving end. I learned the hard way in about 1973, when I mouthed off to one of Boston's finest.

Kind of cured me of being disagreeable with the PD folks.

 

[Narragansett]

My 1970's Buckheimer slapjack. That and a 4 cell Kel-lite was what I used. Mag lites had not been invented yet

 

[BAM-BAM]

I have my gandpa’s sap from when he was a small town cop. I can’t even hint at what he called it without getting booted from the forum.

I never used one on the job. My Motorola “brick” got the nod for attention getting duties.

Dad had one ....... now...................

 

[Mule Packer]

I've always been fascinated by them since I heard a friend of my dad's talk about how is father, the local sheriff, went to the local shoemaker many years ago and had him stitch up a leather bag filled with number 6 shot. He called it a sap. That's the first I ever heard of one.

Since then, I've collected a few. Below are some that Scott Foster made.

I've also acquired a few rather crude homemade ones, too.

Here in Utah, it's legal to carry one if you have a concealed weapons permit. I'm always on the lookout for some. While I probably would never use one, I think their history in law enforcement is fascinating.

 

[Buford57]

Memories

“Three from the ring,” If 3 from the ring doesn’t work, 6 from the holster!

Haven't heard that phrase in 40 years.

Like Kelitis: a painful condition of the joints and long bones resulting from fighting with the police.

 

[whitestang]

Since I started in 1980 we did not have OC spray or ASPs. We carried a PR24,I think I hurt myself more in training than any use on the street. Some of the older Deputies spoke about the saps and how they used them,but the 60s were a different time.

 

[Doug M.]

NEVER hit anyone above the shoulders with a sap, black jack A head shot may cause death, if that happens plan on spending LOTS of times with lawyers defending why you used a deadly weapon to defend yourself.

*
The lack of understanding of how dangerous a punch from an offender is has been a problem for a long time. Cops don't kill very many people and nowhere near as many as would be justified. The stupidity of those think cops should fight fair is a burr under my saddle.

I was first introduced to a sap as a student, role playing at the academy. A good bit of the FTO classes involved teaching practical stuff and there were still agencies that had saps. I was first introduced to the PR24 about the same time, and I had done the class seven or more times by the time I graduated from the academy. I carried the expandable version for the last 10 or more years. Liked it. I also still have a pair of sap gloves. I worked alone in the country for quite a while, and I was never dumb enough to consider a fair fight a good idea.

 

[Faulkner]

I always appreciate hearing the stories from times past and how things have evolved in part due to different technologies.

 

[RetCapt]

i started in LE in '64. That was an era of a variety of such devices. Especially since it was before MACE, although Kel Lites came into use in the late '60s.

Since we were a Sheriff's Department, we were solo and isolated a lot.

I carried a flat slapper. Still have it, on a trophy shelf now.

IIRC I only used the slapper around half a dozen times. I preferred to talk down suspects if at all possible. I think I was pretty good at it.

But there were times when either the conversation dried up, or I never had the opportunity to start it. But when I did use the slapper, it really took care of business.

When it was over and my arrestee had no further interest in further combat I would counsel him that I would pass on his lack of cooperation to my fellow troops, so that if he tried this again he would meet at least the same fate. Oh, and tell your buds and relatives too.

Sometimes that is the only way education can work.

Over time as MACE and aluminum flashlights became so commonly carried anyway interest in slappers, saps, etc waned. As useful as mine was, I did not miss it.

But without a doubt it made me safer.

 

[Buford57]

*
The lack of understanding of how dangerous a punch from an offender is has been a problem for a long time. Cops don't kill very many people and nowhere near as many as would be justified. The stupidity of those think cops should fight fair is a burr under my saddle.

I worked alone in the country for quite a while, and I was never dumb enough to consider a fair fight a good idea.

I once arrested the former state heavyweight wrestling champ, who a few months previously knocked down another officer and was trying to pound his head into the pavement when a backup officer arrived and knocked him off with a night stick to the skull. Potentially deadly force? Yes. Proportionate? Also yes.

When it was my turn I tricked him by telling him the last sobriety test was to touch the backs of his wrists behind his back. I was waiting with the cuffs. On the way to jail he asked for a rematch because I didn't "fight fair". My response was my conviction: " The city doesn't pay me to fight fair. They pay me to win...every time, whatever it takes. Today that means taking your drunk (self) to jail"

 

[Norton 750]

They used to be braided leather, but now are available in Para Cord.

 

[moosedog]

We still used those and SAP Gloves when I got on Detroit in the late 1970s. I know first-hand how they feel as I was knocked unconscious with one blow to the side of my head by a DPD cop by mistake and required three stitches to my left eyebrow.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

My first time meeting my now wife's dad, He got home late from the acadamy because he loaded 2 trash cans full of PR-24s, one stainless steel tear gas fogger and 24 riot shotguns with bayonets and a dozen cans of ammo in his van. He was teaching a Riot Control Class the next day. That was September 1976.

He graduated from Columbus, Ohio PD Acadamy in 1958. At some point was on MC duty before they did away with them in 1964, but he was then grandfathered in not carrying a night stick. He carried a horizontal sap, a 10 ounce lead bar that was leather covered. The sap was shaped like a saddle stirrup with the bar about 3" out from the knuckles. (I saw him use it as a "Door Knocker" once. Over a blasting party you could hear it several blocks away!) It road in the sap pocket. He carried that until he retired around 1988.

Several Columbus PD officers I knew, told me it could be dangerous dating his daughter! I have never had any untold intentions towards his daughter! (46.5 years married as of last week!)

Ivan

 

[tripledipper]

I don't exactly know when the NYPD prohibited the use of slappers but the old school cops I knew used them frequently and uniformed pants had a pocket for them. All my older generation relatives had them but the younger ones appointed during the 80's/90's were told not to use them though they continued to carry them anyway.