Brad Pitt Goes to 'War' with S&W M1917

bedbugbilly said:
I don't think any movie is "perfect" but if you take it as a whole . . . Cruise and the rest in "Saving Private Ryan" at least presented the story of D-Day and brought it to the public theaters where a younger generation could be exposed to the invasion and what it did.
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Cruise wasn't in Saving Private Ryan...it was Tom Hanks who played the leading role. And Matt Damon was Ryan.

But I agree with you on what the film accomplished. It was, and remains, a landmark film. Along with Band of Brothers, the ten-part series on HBO, it's probably one of the most authentic portrayals of D-Day and its aftermath.

Those two films did for D-Day and WWII what Platoon and possibly even Full Metal Jacket did for the Vietnam war.
 
Malysh said:
I am troubled by a narcissistic actor who actually believes he's combat tough and a warrior because he takes "movie boot camps" before filming. It just amazes me.
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Actors, by their very nature and the job they do, are narcissistic. And I haven't heard of Brad Pitt claiming to be "combat tough" after any film boot camp. Even the actors in Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers who went through a boot camp admitted they couldn't have hacked it if it had been for real...especially the Band of Brothers cast, who were put through the wringer by Dale Dye, the ex-marine who schools a lot of actors on the hardships of war.

So why be "troubled" by it? It's only a movie and the actors are doing what they're paid to do.
 
WATCHDOG said:
Actors, by their very nature and the job they do, are narcissistic. And I haven't heard of Brad Pitt claiming to be "combat tough" after any film boot camp. Even the actors in Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers who went through a boot camp admitted they couldn't have hacked it if it had been for real...especially the Band of Brothers cast, who were put through the wringer by Dale Dye, the ex-marine who schools a lot of actors on the hardships of war.

So why be "troubled" by it? It's only a movie and the actors are doing what they're paid to do.
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You answered your question for me, yourself. You cited Brad Pitt and other actors from Band of Brothers and Private Ryan who admitted they could have never hacked it in combat. These actors are relatively sane and maybe even have a honest perspective about themselves that is not 90% shaded by ego.

But Cruise specifically said what I repeated here. He's definitely NOT normal, even by Hollywood standards. As for troubled, take that with a grain of salt. It was just a phrase, I don't stay awake thinking about that ninny :D
 
My high school guidance counselor was a Ranger on D-Day and was a technical consultant on "Ryan". He attended the mini-boot camp Capt. Dye put the cast through before the start of filming. According to an interview he gave my hometown paper, they acquitted themselves quite well and in a few more weeks could pretty much have handled the real thing, apart from the jumps. Apparently Dye showed them no mercy. Also, some of the actors had actually been in the service.
 
WATCHDOG said:
I think there was a good bit of leeway allowed GIs in their choice of sidearms. Some of them received personal arms sent from home.

I know for a fact that the father of a good friend of mine who landed in France on D-Day "liberated" a Luger and used it for the duration of the war, after having given (or traded for goods) his GI .45 to another soldier.

I don't think command personnel much cared what sort of weapon GIs used to kill Germans, as long as the job got done. And regarding non-conventional sidearms...just look at George Patton. Neither of his holsters were government issue, not to mention his Colt six-shooter and .45, both with ivory grips.
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Old Blood and Guts carried his 3 1/2" Registered Magnum more than he did his 1911. It too had ivory grips with his initials, GSP, on them. He referred to it as his "killing gun".
 
I look forward to seeing the movie. Both Cruise and Pitt are fine actors whether one agrees with their off stage antics or not. And since all actors are narcissistic to some degree I take anything they say or do while out of character with a grain of salt.

In "With The Old Breed: st Peleliu and Okinawa" Eugene Sledge writes about a 45 that his father sent him for personal use. In the HBO miniseries it it shown several times and appears to be a commercial S&W 1917 type with checkered stocks. But I don't recall reading in the book whether it was a revolver or 1911.

My own father served as a Naval aviator in the North Atlantic. In addition to a Victory revolver, he carried a rather large hunting style knife that my grandfather made out of a broken file. Grandpa worked for the NYC RR and got the file from the Avis, Pa, engine shops. He made the sheath too, out of some old machine drive belt leather. Still have both though the sheath is a little worse for wear.
John
 
TIMETRIPPER said:
I look forward to seeing the movie. Both Cruise and Pitt are fine actors whether one agrees with their off stage antics or not. And since all actors are narcissistic to some degree I take anything they say or do while out of character with a grain of salt.

In "With The Old Breed: st Peleliu and Okinawa" Eugene Sledge writes about a 45 that his father sent him for personal use. In the HBO miniseries it it shown several times and appears to be a commercial S&W 1917 type with checkered stocks. But I don't recall reading in the book whether it was a revolver or 1911.

My own father served as a Naval aviator in the North Atlantic. In addition to a Victory revolver, he carried a rather large hunting style knife that my grandfather made out of a broken file. Grandpa worked for the NYC RR and got the file from the Avis, Pa, engine shops. He made the sheath too, out of some old machine drive belt leather. Still have both though the sheath is a little worse for wear.
John
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Can you picture the knife? Sounds interesting. I think Naval aviators were usually issued MK 1 knives or bought their own.

If you watch, "The Bridges at Toko-Ri", William Holden's character was wearing what I think was a Western brand "shark knife." He was a lawyer from Denver and Western was in Colorado, so that was very plausible. I saw their knives in most suitable stores while I was stationed in Denver in the 1960's. But I bought Buck and Randall. I did get a used small Western sheath knife, which I still have. The movie, of course, is about the Korean war, not WW II. You can sometimes find it or excerpts on YouTube. Good film!

BTW, in the book, I think James Michener (sp?) mentioned that the pilot hero had fired his Victory Model .38 just six times in training. That seems very likely. When his F-9F Panther (a Banshee in the book) was shot down, he reflected about that. I won't say how he got a .30 carbine or how it ended; that'd be a spoiler for those who haven't seen it. The movie also starred Mickey Rooney and Grace Kelly.

I was in the USAF but sometimes saw Naval aviators. They had Victory Models and knives were evidently up to the man wearing it. I saw only a couple of Randalls; most were less expensive.

For the Vietnam war, I like the book series by a pilot who flew Intruders. "Flight of the Intruder" was his first book. His name momentarily escapes me, but you can find the book by title. He mentioned that on the carrier, pilots had a small locker in their rooms to store a sidearm. I think he wore a S&W M-19 .357, like his hero, Jake Grafton. His pal had a Colt M-1911A-1 and a big knife similar to a Cold Steel Trailmaster, but not one of those.

Back in the Viet years, it wasn't uncommon to see milltary pilots asking gun magazine columnists about sidearms. Some AF bases told pilots to bring their own, as there were shortages. Naturally, Jeff Cooper advised buying a Colt .45 auto... :rolleyes: But it was a sound choice, at that. Jeff could be more versatile. He liked the M-19 with six-inch bbl. as a trail gun, making the point that it had a lot of power with less bulk than most .357's. And it shot flatter and was more useful in the wilderness than a .45 auto, with .38 ammo for small game.
 
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TIMETRIPPER said:
I look forward to seeing the movie. Both Cruise and Pitt are fine actors whether one agrees with their off stage antics or not. And since all actors are narcissistic to some degree I take anything they say or do while out of character with a grain of salt.

In "With The Old Breed: st Peleliu and Okinawa" Eugene Sledge writes about a 45 that his father sent him for personal use. In the HBO miniseries it it shown several times and appears to be a commercial S&W 1917 type with checkered stocks. But I don't recall reading in the book whether it was a revolver or 1911.

My own father served as a Naval aviator in the North Atlantic. In addition to a Victory revolver, he carried a rather large hunting style knife that my grandfather made out of a broken file. Grandpa worked for the NYC RR and got the file from the Avis, Pa, engine shops. He made the sheath too, out of some old machine drive belt leather. Still have both though the sheath is a little worse for wear.
John
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Dr. Sledge's book is one of the best written by a WWII combat veteran. I have a copy and it will never be forgotten by me. His recounting of Okinawa was horrifying. Everybody knows about Iwo, but there weren't enough good books about Okinawa.
His book is really much better than "Helmet for my Pillow" by Robert Leckie, USMC, who was originally a journalist in his civilian life. Leckie's book is a lot more famous, but it's full of literary allusions which although intelligent, I don't care for. Sledge's book is more simply written and speaks plainly from the heart. Sledge came home to gain a doctorate in ornithology and became a tenured full professor at Alabama. Both men were very intelligent and successful, but Dr. Sledge's book tugs at the heart strings.
It's ironic to me that Mr. Leckie's book became more famous and was even touted by the Corps. I don't remember them doing that for Dr. Sledge's book.

Eugene Sledge couldn't even bear to go bird hunting with his dad after the war. He just couldn't bear to kill anything after those experiences.

Both these books are excellent if you want to read good books by enlisted men who lived through some of the roughest of the Pacific battles.
 
Eugene Sledge was of course one of the main character in the miniseries the Pacific. Does anybody know was his book used as a source for that that Series? Sounds like it probably was.
A Marine from my hometown that I knew who was at Guadalcanal committed suicide about 25 years after the war was over.
The Most Highly decorated Marine that I have met who was there is Marine raider Gordon Warner. I'll do a thread on him sometime.
 
I have never told this story before because it is rather long, but here goes. My uncle was in WWII at Bataan and survived the death march, hell ships and forced labor camps in Japan. I seldom ever heard him talk about anything "serious" about the war, but would tell off the wall unusual experiences. I never knew this man to lie or fib about anything. He even told the truth about the size of fish he caught, so I have to believe the following story is true. After escape to the Bataan peninsula, in a lull in fighting, he had won in poker games 2 1911 45's. Being a private he had to keep them hidden. Starving, the troops ate all the mules, then ate the cavalry mounts, then started hunting monkeys in the jungle. While hunting monkeys, he shot one with one of the 2 45's he had on his belt (he was a 17 year old kid). Wounding the monkey it hit the ground and scurried off. While following the blood spoor, he came upon a pair of the biggest feet he had ever seen. Attached to the feet was a huge Japanese soldier pointed a rifle with a bayonet at him. The Jap was what he called a northern island Jap known for being large men. The Jap had him dead to rights but didn't shoot and just pointed his rifle at my uncle and his pistols. Getting the drift, my uncle slowly removed both guns and laid them on the ground. The Jap motioned him to move back which he did. Now the odd part of this story happened. The Jap sat down his rifle, picked up both handguns, turned his attention away from my uncle and examined both pistols. Finding the best of the 2, he tucked it into his belt, picked up his rifle and walked away, leaving my uncle and the other pistol. My uncle quickly retrieved his remaining pistol and aimed it at the back of the departing Jap, but held his fire as he didn't think the 45 could kill such a large man. My uncle went back to camp empty handed as the Jap reached down on leaving and picked up and kept the now dead monkey.
 
Engine49guy said:
Does the tread pattern and muzzle break on the main gun stand out to anyone else as post WWII upgrades ?
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I don't know about the treads, but don't think WW II Shermans had muzzle brakes (not "breaks").

Something bothered me about that 75mm, and I think that's it.

The muzzle brakes were probably inspired by those on German tanks.

Some British-used Shermans had upgraded, more powerful guns. Don't know if they used brakes. Did the Soviet T-34?
 
THE PILGRIM said:
Eugene Sledge was of course one of the main character in the miniseries the Pacific. Does anybody know was his book used as a source for that that Series? Sounds like it probably was.
A Marine from my hometown that I knew who was at Guadalcanal committed suicide about 25 years after the war was over.
The Most Highly decorated Marine that I have met who was there is Marine raider Gordon Warner. I'll do a thread on him sometime.
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I would give you a Like for your post, but because of the hometown Marine's suicide I don't think it is appropriate. My heart's in the right place, though. The author Len Deighton (one of my favorites) once said that if you sell the movie rights to one of your books, be prepared to have 75% of the plot sliced out.

They used Dr. Sledge's book for the series, among other works and memoirs. I watched it with great interest. They didn't always use his memoirs particularly accurately, as TV and Movie makers have little respect for the art of writing.

It's not completely their fault.
A book is an art form that takes maybe a week to digest. It's difficult to keep a movie watcher in a theater for over 2 hrs. So a movie must have a plot that can tell the story and reach it's conclusion in about 2 hrs. This fundamental differences in the two art forms has left me disappointed in more than one movie made from my favorite books. I am reconciled to it by my age, though.

I found The Pacific to be pretty good, but not as intensely warming in a personal sense as the feelings evoked in Band of Brothers. This is because you start with the same group of guys in B of B and stick with them through the entire ETO campaign. By dint of the vastness of the geography of the Pacific Theater, this is not possible with The Pacific.
The personal bonds, for the screen and in real life of Band of Brothers strikes that very human chord in all of us. I think it would have been impossible to do that with The Pacific.

I was very impressed, though, with the re-creation of the airfield battle on Peleliu. Marines in a frontal charge against hardened targets (the concrete control tower and concrete office buildings), a 600+ yds charge in 115 degree heat doing without water replenishment. They had a problem getting fresh water the first week or a little less at Peleliu. Showered by light and heavy Japanese mortar fire, artillery fire, plus machine guns and small arms fire. Over a space as denuded as a pool table. These men were incredible. The re-creation of this battle left me with chills up my spine, just as the Normandy invasion scenes in Saving Private Ryan, which were incredible. None were ever filmed better than these examples, if I may be permitted to say so.

Semper Fi,
Mike
 
30-30remchester said:
I have never told this story before because it is rather long, but here goes. My uncle was in WWII at Bataan and survived the death march, hell ships and forced labor camps in Japan. I seldom ever heard him talk about anything "serious" about the war, but would tell off the wall unusual experiences. I never knew this man to lie or fib about anything. He even told the truth about the size of fish he caught, so I have to believe the following story is true. After escape to the Bataan peninsula, in a lull in fighting, he had won in poker games 2 1911 45's. Being a private he had to keep them hidden. Starving, the troops ate all the mules, then ate the cavalry mounts, then started hunting monkeys in the jungle. While hunting monkeys, he shot one with one of the 2 45's he had on his belt (he was a 17 year old kid). Wounding the monkey it hit the ground and scurried off. While following the blood spoor, he came upon a pair of the biggest feet he had ever seen. Attached to the feet was a huge Japanese soldier pointed a rifle with a bayonet at him. The Jap was what he called a northern island Jap known for being large men. The Jap had him dead to rights but didn't shoot and just pointed his rifle at my uncle and his pistols. Getting the drift, my uncle slowly removed both guns and laid them on the ground. The Jap motioned him to move back which he did. Now the odd part of this story happened. The Jap sat down his rifle, picked up both handguns, turned his attention away from my uncle and examined both pistols. Finding the best of the 2, he tucked it into his belt, picked up his rifle and walked away, leaving my uncle and the other pistol. My uncle quickly retrieved his remaining pistol and aimed it at the back of the departing Jap, but held his fire as he didn't think the 45 could kill such a large man. My uncle went back to camp empty handed as the Jap reached down on leaving and picked up and kept the now dead monkey.
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The indigenous Northern Japanese people are called the Ainu. They used to be called the Hairy Ainu by the majority of the Japanese, who were descendants of the Koreans. The Ainu were already in Northern Japan a long time when the first Koreans/future Japanese first set foot on the Japanese islands. At one time they were discrimated against by their fellow Japanese. I knew they were taller than the later Japanese, but I don't think they are a giant race. It think it was coincidence this Japanese Ainu soldier was that huge. It happens.

At any rate, what a story!
Thanks for sharing it.
 
"Sledge came home to gain a doctorate in ornithology and became a tenured full professor at Alabama."

Dr Sledge was a graduate of Alabama Polytechnical Institute (now Auburn University). He became a professor at Alabama College (now the University of Montevallo) in Shelby County, Alabama, not that "other" school over in Tuscaloosey. :D
 
Muley Gil said:
"Sledge came home to gain a doctorate in ornithology and became a tenured full professor at Alabama."

Dr Sledge was a graduate of Alabama Polytechnical Institute (now Auburn University). He became a professor at Alabama College (now the University of Montevallo) in Shelby County, Alabama, not that "other" school over in Tuscaloosey. :D
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Thanks for expanding on the facts, Muley. Of course I read this as it's mentioned in his book. However, the details, UA vs. Auburn, I could not recall specifically. My knowledge of the great state of Alabama is purely anecdotal. I've never been there.

What could you expect from a kid born in NYC and bred 5 miles from Kennedy Airport?
You know how us Yankees are :D
 
The German helmet and gas mask on the left front headlight is a nice touch. Shermans with the 76mm M1 gun could have a muzzle brake. The German 88mm and the high velocity 75mm on the Panther could penetrate a Sherman's armor like a hot knife through butter. And the butter was made out of gasoline. German infantry also had very effective anti-tank weapons. Our tankers in the ETO took a lot of casualties.
 
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