Break-in Period?

[giants1]

Denis9834 posted about some problems he had right out of the box with his new M&P 15:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...42-m-p-15-sport-2-jamming-bending-rounds.html

His post suggests that I should do a break-in period. How many rounds should I fire when I pick up my new M&P 15 to confirm that it's reliable?

I just realized that the LGS didn't show the actual rifle to me when I filled out the paperwork for background check and payment. I'm new to AR-15s, but I know enough to confirm the serial number. I'm wondering what sort of inspection I should do in the store before I take it home?

 

[S-W4EVER]

Clean and properly lubricate the rifle and it should be good to go. When I was a LEO we were required to put 500 rounds through a newly issued service pistol but we never put that many through a new carbine, they were all good right out of the box.

I know ammo is kinda expensive these days but you’re gonna want to put some rounds through that rifle just to get comfortable with it (especially if you’re gonna use it for personal defense). AR’s are a lot of fun to shoot. I like to keep my AR’s clean and the bolt wet (oiled).

 

[Imissedagain]

Smart to ask before you pick it up and it might be prudent to ask if anyone at the LGS, very familiar with that model, can walk you thru an inspection... well worth a doubloon or two.
That will be in addition to the replies here.

With our old and new ARs we just cleaned them and ran a 100 or so before cleaning again and put away until next time when we might add a scope or battery operated sight.

We're a Colt family and no Smith ARs just handguns.
Pic circa 1980.

Enjoy that Smith!!!

 

[giants1]

Thanks; How Far to Disassemble?

Clean and properly lubricate the rifle and it should be good to go. When I was a LEO we were required to put 500 rounds through a newly issued service pistol but we never put that many through a new carbine, they were all good right out of the box.

I know ammo is kinda expensive these days but you’re gonna want to put some rounds through that rifle just to get comfortable with it (especially if you’re gonna use it for personal defense). AR’s are a lot of fun to shoot. I like to keep my AR’s clean and the bolt wet (oiled).

Thanks.

How far do I disassemble the bolt carrier group prior to firing it?

 

[giants1]

Thanks; Colt 6920

Smart to ask before you pick it up and it might be prudent to ask if anyone at the LGS, very familiar with that model, can walk you thru an inspection... well worth a doubloon or two.
That will be in addition to the replies here.

With our old and new ARs we just cleaned them and ran a 100 or so before cleaning again and put away until next time when we might add a scope or battery operated sight.

We're a Colt family and no Smith ARs just handguns.
Pic circa 1980.

Enjoy that Smith!!!

Thanks!

What a great family portrait!

What are your thoughts about the Colt CR(?) 6920 for home defense? Do you think the carbine-length gas system puts it at a disadvantage compared to mid-lengths?

 

[S-W4EVER]

Thanks.

How far do I disassemble the bolt carrier group prior to firing it?

They’re really not that hard to disassemble, you’ve got to do it anyway to clean it. There are probably vids on youtube (if you don’t have any buddies familiar with AR’s).

The AR was designed for eighteen year old HS grads that have never handled a firearm before. When I was in BCT, the guys that had trouble with their M16A1’s were the guys that had a tendency to overthink things (College boys).

The good news is I’m not aware of any way to improperly reassemble the weapon.

 

[Imissedagain]

We have Colt LEs and CRs and they'll do anything you will need to do, in that caliber, at home or in the field from 300 yds to.....
too close for comfort.

First learn to field strip and clean as per the manual.

 

[Johnnu2]

I would sincerely recommend a 12 ga. pump for home defense; less chance of hurting yourself or others......

IMHO

J.

 

[jbtrucker]

Plenty of AR disassembly and cleaning videos on You Tube. I recommend Gunblue490 ,sooch00 and MrGunsngear

 

[gwpercle]

Pretend you are buying a "New Car" ...inspect everything , look for defects , damage , blemishes , ...Kick the tires , slam the doors , look inside and out for anything that sends up a red flag .
Right Now is the time to look for anything not acceptable and bring it the dealers attention ... you wouldn't buy a new car with a scratched paint job and dented fender would you ?
Don't accept anything you don't like ...
Gary

 

[BB57]

Thanks!

What a great family portrait!

What are your thoughts about the Colt CR(?) 6920 for home defense? Do you think the carbine-length gas system puts it at a disadvantage compared to mid-lengths?

There are pros and cons:

Con;

1) .223/5.56mm NATO is abusively loud when fired indoors. And that’s in a 20” barrel. Fire a .223 in an enclosed space from a 16” barrel and you can expect hearing damage.

In that regard a 9mm carbine is a better choice, from a noise perspective. Sound levels are down around 117 dB in my 16” AR-15.

2) A shotgun is generally faster, easier and more accurate for most shooters to employ in a close quarters home defense situation than an AR-15. There’s also a great deal of psychological impact when an intruder hears a round being chambered in a pump shotgun.

Pro;

1) Longer barrels are better in terms of tumbling and fragmentation range but anything over 10” should allow a 55 gr FMJ to start to tumble and fragment in dry wall, meaning it is less likely to penetrate beyond the next room or exit the house.

With a pistol round, most 9mm, .40 and .45 rounds will exit the average residential structure.

Either way, you still need to be aware of what is behind the assailant and choose your angles for fire carefully. If you live with family members then they need to have and understand a plan for where they will take cover if shooting starts - as low and protected as practical - to keep them out of the potential line of fire and to prevent them from being mistaken for an intruder. (Yes, you need to positively ID your target, but the more layers you have to prevent an accidental blue on blue shooting the better.)

——

The mid length versus carbine length debate can be endless, but it’s not nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be.

If you have a quality 16” carbine and you are using quality ammo, you”ll never notice the difference and a carbine length gas system will be just as reliable as a mid length.

The problems start with the carbine length gas system when you start using a low end carbine with cheap steel cased ammo. Gas port pressure in the carbine length system is higher, around 25,000 psi compared to around 21,000 psi in a mid length and 16,000 psi in a full length gas system. That means the gas port in the carbine length system is a lot smaller, so you have a short high pressure impulse of gas compared to a longer push of lower pressure gas. That makes the carbine length system slightly more sensitive to variation in ammo and powder type. But again, stick with a quality AR-15 and decent ammo and you’ll have zero issues.

 

[BB57]

Clean and properly lubricate the rifle and it should be good to go. When I was a LEO we were required to put 500 rounds through a newly issued service pistol but we never put that many through a new carbine, they were all good right out of the box.

I know ammo is kinda expensive these days but you’re gonna want to put some rounds through that rifle just to get comfortable with it (especially if you’re gonna use it for personal defense). AR’s are a lot of fun to shoot. I like to keep my AR’s clean and the bolt wet (oiled).

Good advice to recommend a fair number of rounds before putting it to use, just on general principal.

——

The reasons behind policies are important.

If a department allows officers a choice of pistols, or allows officers to carry something else off duty, then you can have a situation where a required 500 round break in period is important to meet the break in needs of some models that don’t apply to others. And of course if the department selected duty pistol needs 500 rounds to reach peak reliability then, that’s what it gets.

There’s also an unrelated argument that 500 rounds fired by the shooter does a fair not to ensure the officer is competent with it and hopefully confident in it. Since duty pistols are far more likely to be used than a duty rifle, the cost benefit analysis favors putting 500 rounds through a pistol, and that might not be the case for a duty rifle.

Finally, it depends on the duty rifle. If you are issuing proven rifles or carbines that are known to run right out of the box with proven issued ammunition, then firing 100 rounds to verify that rifle or carbine runs, and familiarizing the officer shooting it might be plenty.

The point here is that none of those arguments might be valid with someone choosing an AR-15 given the wide range of quality in AR-15s and the wide range in quality and characteristics in ammo.

I recommend shooters put a minimum of 200 rounds of ammo through any semi-auto weapon, with 100% reliability using all the magazines they plan to use, before considering it fit for self defense use.

In other words, if you have a failure to feed or eject on round 30 you are now looking at a minimum 230 rounds to reach the 200 consecutive round threshold. If you find a pattern of failures with a particular magazine, it gets marked, gets eliminated from the test phase, and is subsequently not used for anything other than range practice use.

 

[BB57]

I know ammo is kinda expensive these days but you’re gonna want to put some rounds through that rifle just to get comfortable with it (especially if you’re gonna use it for personal defense). AR’s are a lot of fun to shoot. I like to keep my AR’s clean and the bolt wet (oiled).

The above comment is spot on. An AR-15 does like to be run wet, regardless of what you might hear otherwise.

Pre-Gulf War and even pre-Afghanistan and Iraq I’d hear people claiming the AR-15 needed to be run dry in the sand box to keep it from collecting dust and failing.

That didn’t work out so well but it took an unbelievably long time to kill off the “run it dry” rumors.

A clean AR-15 will run ok dry, but as soon as it gets any dirt or dust in it at all, it’ll stop running unless it’s well lubricated.

An AR-15 doesn’t need to be dripping, but don’t worry about over oiling one either. If it has too much oil, it’ll just chuck out any excess it doesn’t need. Particularly when it’s new and the parts in contact with each other are still wearing smooth, more oil is definitely better,

 

[S-W4EVER]

The above comment is spot on. An AR-15 does like to be run wet, regardless of what you might hear otherwise.

Pre-Gulf War and even pre-Afghanistan and Iraq I’d hear people claiming the AR-15 needed to be run dry in the sand box to keep it from collecting dust and failing.

That didn’t work out so well but it took an unbelievably long time to kill off the “run it dry” rumors…

When I served in the Army (early 1970’s) we were taught to run our M16A1’s “dry” but that theory has been debunked since then.

 

[Ranger17]

For me, I don’t have a specific “break in period” based on round counts (ie ‘500’ before it is ok), more I base it on when I am content on how the gun operates, feels, etc and that has worked well for me on all my SW MP handguns.
Now for my Sport 2, which is my first AR, I am taking more time with it. To get comfortable with that platform and to be competent in its operation.
So guess I don’t run rounds to break one in but rather for my own confidence and education.

 

[vinn]

if a new item needs to be "broke in" --- don't buy it.

 

[cyphertext]

I'm not sure if we are being trolled here or not, as the OP is all over the place with these questions. If we are not being trolled, the OP appears to have very limited firearms experience.

OP, if you are wanting this rifle for HD, yes, you will need to shoot it to insure that it functions properly and that you understand how to use it. You will need to be able to clear malfunctions... and all of them will have a malfunction at some point. You will need to put a few magazines of your preferred defensive ammo through it too, not just cheap 55 gr FMJ range ammo.

All the technical stuff that you are worried about, such as gas systems... forget about it. At your level it doesn't matter a bit. You need to keep it simple for now. Basic carbine with a red dot and a light at most. I don't even have a light on mine, but we have night lights all throughout our home (and the AR is not my goto HD gun).

I see that you are looking at a 15-22 as a trainer. I would recommend spending that money on ammo and range time, possibly with an instructor over trying to set up a .22lr to mimic your AR. That would serve you better at this stage in my opinion. If you feel you must go with the .22lr solution due to ammo cost, buy a .22lr conversion kit for your AR so that you are still using the same trigger, same sighting system, etc. Less money on hardware, more money for software (training and practice). I read where you think that the conversion kit is "fussy" on ammo... all .22lr can be. Some .22lr feeds better than others in a semi auto. I have both, a CMMG setup and a 15-22... I buy high velocity, bulk pack ammo and it runs fine. I get the occasional dud, but that is typical of .22lr.

If I lived in California, I would not jump through all the hoops to own an AR... I would select firearms that were legal in a normal configuration, such as a pump shotgun or a Mini 14 if you feel like you have to go with a rifle. The Glock you own and a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 would be a simple, less expensive option.

 

[cyphertext]

if a new item needs to be "broke in" --- don't buy it.

I guess you never purchase anything mechanical as new? Everything mechanical has a break in period. Parts are going to wear together. Ever buy a new car? Everyone that I have purchased has directions on how to drive it for the first 500 mile break in.

How about shoes? Ever buy new shoes and the get more comfortable the longer you wear them as they start to form to your foot?

Same is true with a firearm. I wouldn't take a new pistol and carry it without cleaning it and firing a few hundred rounds through it to insure proper function. Mass produced firearms are not hand fitted. Those moving parts need a break in period to insure that they wear together. It is not uncommon to see wear marks and peening after a firing a couple boxes of ammo through a new firearm where the moving parts have settled in together.

 

[giants1]

Thanks; Type of Ammo?

I would sincerely recommend a 12 ga. pump for home defense; less chance of hurting yourself or others......

IMHO

J.

Thanks. My house has stucco, and so do the two detached houses on either side. The third side is exposed to a hill, the fourth a bay window as a backstop to my hallway, which is where I'm concerned about any ammunition over-penetrating. What shotgun cartridge type(s) would you recommend, given my house's situation?

 

[cyphertext]

Thanks. My house has stucco, and so do the two detached houses on either side. The third side is exposed to a hill, the fourth a bay window as a backstop to my hallway, which is where I'm concerned about any ammunition over-penetrating. What shotgun cartridge type(s) would you recommend, given my house's situation?

Anything that is going to penetrate to hit vitals will go through walls and such as well. The best way to avoid the over penetration is to hit what you are aiming at!

The distances that you have mentioned in other posts, 2 to 7 yards, you could go with either #00 buck, #1 buck, or #4 buck. As the numbers get larger, the pellets get smaller, but there are more in the shell. For example, in 12 gauge, 2 3/4" shells #00 buck is going to have 8 or 9 pellets that are .33" in diameter, #1 has 12 - 16 pellets that are .30", and #4 has 21 - 28 pellets at .24". I have an 12 gauge 870 loaded with #00, and two 20 gauges loaded with #1 buck.

Best recommendation is Federal 2 3/4" #00 buck with FliteConrtol. The FliteControl wad keeps the pellets grouped together longer after they have left the barrel to give you a tight group on your intended target. Unfortunately, they are hard to find right now.

If you are worried about missing and shot going through the walls into a neighbors home, use #1 or #4. Disadvantage to those loads as there are not as many choices in defensive rounds as they are not as popular.