Broken extractor pin removal

[Becket]

Noticed a 19-4 has a broken extractor star alignment pin, just a non-grabable nub barely left above the hole. I have a pin to replace it, but how do I get it out? If I have to drill it out, ok; but I have no press. Is there an easy-out bit made that small?

 

[Dave.357]

Better find a gun smith.
Have never saw a easy out that small
But it would not help the pin is a press fit.
No threads.

 

[steelslaver]

You need a gunsmith or a machinist. If it was me. I would remove the cylinder and rod, fill the chambers with fired cases and place cylinder in a machinist vice with brass plates on the jaws and using a milling machine line up dead center on that pin's hole in the extractor, then once aligned correctly remove the extractor and cases. Use a small end mill to flush what is left of the pin. This will give the drill smooth flat to start correctly. Then go to a #49 or 50 drill and drill out the hole and use a piece of drill shank to replace the pin using red Loctite to secure it in the hole.

Actually there is no true mechanical need the fix it. The cut in the cylinder center hole does a decent job, other pin is refining that, the nub helps and when loaded with ammo they do more than either pin.

I also understand wanting everything to be correct.

 

[Alk8944]

The extractor pins are nominally pressed in, but in actuality are often actually looser and frequently simply fall out. Before doing anything else try this:

Completely disassemble the cylinder (except the gas ring if in cylinder), then, on a piece of wood or wooden bench top, making sure the cylinder is square to the surface, strike the rear of the cylinder very firmly on the wooden surface. Don't be surprised if you have to strike it several times! Often the pin will be shaken out by inertia. At least it may come out enough to allow it to be pulled out using pliers.

If this doesn't work you still have the option of having to drill out the broken stub, but it may only spin in the hole. Unless you are sure you have the tools, proper equipment and skill to do this yourself please take it to a local gunsmith. If not, just use the gun as is, it will function fine without the pin.

 

[steelslaver]

There is another option. If it would not pop out as suggested by Alk. Then I would see what happens when I clamped down the cylinder and just touched the top of the stub with a good rare earth magnet.Might pull it out

Another method would be to drill a #50 hole in a piece of steel about 1/8" thick. You want it of a size that is big as possible but be able to have the hole go over the broken pin and sit flat on the recess for the extractor. Tape it in place with duct tape only leaving the hole with the stub in it exposed. Then have a GOOD welder hit the stub with a tig welder or a one blip of the trigger using a .023 mig. This protect the cylinder, stick the pin stub to the piece with the hole and give you a purchase. The amount of heat going to the cylinder itself will be very low. In this case the "weld" is only a tiny tack and all the heat will go to the piece of steel and the end of the pin. My definition of a good welder is a professional pipe welder, NOT you cousin Bob who has a 110 welder or old buzz box in his garage. I know guys that can weld the bottoms of 2 pop cans together without blowing a hole in either of them.

I have used a similar method to remove broken bolts and studs. Stick the next size nut or a drilled out one over the broke bolt Hit the hole with some weld and turn it out with the new nut.

 

[Becket]

got it out!

Thanks all, Ill try to gently knock it out first. Don't trust any tig guys I know well enough to let them try that other option, unfortunately. I will say this; with only the one pin holding its place in the star, there is a very noticeable difficulty opening the cylinder when the pin is vertical with the gun. When it is at the bottom of the rotation, the cylinder release works great and it opens right up. Is there is a flex off-entering the latch pin release and the rod through the extractor star I guess? Its a newer purchase. Could there also be a slightly bent yoke contributing to this possible flex? It didn't seem so with both pins intact, as everything worked beautifully!
Edit: got it out after a couple whacks! Thanks all, though the binding issue still remains to be solved. Already have another blued pin coming from Numrich, last one they had. In a pinch ill do the music wire fix though, good to know!

 

[steelslaver]

I am glad to hear you got it out. Great call by Alk

You say it worked with both pins. How did the one get broke? I have never broke one. I have found them missing or had to deal with them when fitting another extractor. Is there by chance a burr on the extractor's shaft. Usually a missing pin causes no problems. A bent well rod or center pin might cause it.

A bent yoke will cause the cylinder to misaligned, the yoke to not close well to frame depending on where or how it is bent. Bent shaft that yoke pivots on, it will not close well with the cylinder off. When on the cylinder misaligned. Slightly bent tube that the cylinder rides on the yoke will close up well with cylinder off but the cylinder will be misaligned. WAY bigger problem than a broken pin.. There is a tool that goes in yoke tube that slides out and is supposed to hit the center of recoil shield if yoke is true.

 

[Becket]

Thanks, I’m going to pull the cylinder back apart, grab my mic and trace things back from there. May as well do a full strip while I’m at it. Appreciate the help!

 

[Becket]

Update: Solved it seems, but this was an odd little problem!

I figured it out, though had not heard of this problem before. I replaced the pin, but still had the binding. I determined that the binding experienced upon releasing the cylinder, was only happening if just 3 side by side holes were in the 12oclock position under the hammer. (Note: if just your cylinder rod binds against that locking pin for whatever reason, I found you can just pull back on the rear of the cylinder. There may, like mine, be just enough play to pull the rod back and free from the locking pin.) So, I removed the entire crane, yoke and cylinder; then disassembled the extractor rod/star. Crane/yoke and all parts were fine and true; and there were no burrs under the star. Springs fine as well, though I did find a bit of ancient grease (from some previous owner that I missed upon cleaning; use those Q-tips!) pushed up inside the large main cylinder center hole at the star end. Just that tiny bit of old gunk had been slowing cylinder rotation I noticed, after putting it all back together.The actual binding trouble was with the interface of the little sprung rod detent locking pin at the top of the rod protector groove, where it inserted into the cylinder rod hole, at the very tip of said rod. The wear was uneven inside the hole on one side; I guess because that little sprung locking detent pin is worn? It was hanging on just enough to make it bind and hold back the cylinder from opening freely. No probs with the other three holes at 12 o'clock at all. I plan to replace the locking pin and rod, but I did a painfree fix that is working out fine, at least so far. I determined which cylinder hole was hanging up the worst. The lesser two problem holes were on either side of that one. I took my fine triangle file and strongest pair of cheater glasses, and used the tip of the triangle corner to just rub it back and forth inside the little rod hole along that area. 12 strokes, no change. 8 more, huh; better. After about 35 or so med-gentle passes back and forth inside the hole, it all evened out and the binding was gone! Since a new locking detent pin (didn't check for the official name, sorry) may grab the old rod's worn hole differently than intended (stronger, or looser, dunno), I'm grabbing that other new rod, jik. Since those being replaced are original parts i'll baggie them, of course. What a weird little problem to happen, at least it was new to me; but I'm no great wealth of god-like knowledge like so many here (oh stop it, you know who you are!)
Seriously, thanks again all for the possible answers; I can always count on furthering my knowledge here!

 

[handejector]

The actual binding trouble was with the interface of the little sprung rod detent locking pin at the top of the rod protector groove, where it inserted into the cylinder rod hole, at the very tip of said rod. The wear was uneven inside the hole on one side; I guess because that little sprung locking detent pin is worn? It was hanging on just enough to make it bind and hold back the cylinder from opening freely. No probs with the other three holes at 12 o'clock at all. I plan to replace the locking pin and rod, but I did a painfree fix that is working out fine, at least so far. I determined which cylinder hole was hanging up the worst. The lesser two problem holes were on either side of that one. I took my fine triangle file and strongest pair of cheater glasses, and used the tip of the triangle corner to just rub it back and forth inside the little rod hole along that area. 12 strokes, no change. 8 more, huh; better. After about 35 or so med-gentle passes back and forth inside the hole, it all evened out and the binding was gone! Since a new locking detent pin (didn't check for the official name, sorry) may grab the old rod's worn hole differently than intended (stronger, or looser, dunno), I'm grabbing that other new rod, jik. Since those being replaced are original parts i'll baggie them, of course. What a weird little problem to happen, at least it was new to me; but I'm no great wealth of god-like knowledge like so many here (oh stop it, you know who you are!)
Seriously, thanks again all for the possible answers; I can always count on furthering my knowledge here!

That was not the problem.
The ejector rod was not square on the front end and was a few thousandths too long on that side.
When you push the thumb latch, it pushes the center pin out of the hole in the recoil shield. The front end of the center pin pushes the {forward} locking bolt out of the front end of the ejector rod.
If it hangs on opening, all you have to do is knock a thousandth or 2 or 3 off the front of the ejector rod, making sure you keep it SQUARE. The center pin should ideally be dead flush or even protrude a thousandth or two when the thumb latch is pushed. You need to use a file so fine it does not even leave file marks. If you do not have a file that fine, use a stone.
After filing, gently deburr the inside of the hole using the smooth edge of the file or the corner of a stone.

 

[WR Moore]

Becket, let me help a little with your terminology. I'll delve a bit deeper than handejector did.

So, the extractor rod is the thing you press on to extract cases from the cylinder. Inside the extractor rod is the center pin that locks the cylinder in place when it's closed.

The extractor rod tip is supposed to have a slight bevel on the outside to cam the locking bolt (little widget in the barrel underlug) back so the cylinder can close. It's also supposed to have a slight chamfer on the inside to better center the locking bolt.

The tip of the extractor rod is supposed to be square with the shaft. When the center pin is pressed flush with the ratchet boss (you called it the star), the other end is supposed to be at least flush with the end of the rod. It can stick out 0.005 in to help clear the locking bolt from the rod.

BTW, while it's not your issue, the tip of the locking bolt is supposed to have a slight flat on it to help it bridge the gap between center pin and extractor rod tip caused by the chamfer. Also, with the cylinder swung out, when you press the thumb piece all the way forward, the end of the bolt that moves the center pin should be at least flush with the breech face/recoil shield.