Brutality in Basic Training

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

The message string asking about the accuracy of the Basic Training scenes in "Full Metal Jacket" prompts me to resurrect a posting I made on another board years ago. My examples concern the Army, veterans of other services are welcome to add theirs.
1. Fort Dix, Summer of 1964. One Fort Dix alumnus said they had a fatso in his platoon. At every meal one of the DIs would follow him down the chow line. No bread or potatoes, no desserts-the kid lost 50 pounds. Another Fort Dix alumnus from the same time said the biggest loser in his company lost 55 pounds.
2. Fort Dix, Fall of 1964. Another Fort Dix veteran said they had a fatso who was a rea loudmouth redneck-and an NG to boot. They'd be standing in the chow line, one of the black or Hispanic DIs would tap him on the shoulder and say "Let's go for a run." They'd come back 10-15 minutes later, the DI not even breaking a sweat, the loudmouth all red in the face, gasping for breath.
3. Fort Dix, Summer of 1974. One DI had to deal with-The Gasser ! One recruit who was constantly passing gas, and he stunk to high heaven. He gave them their gas mask training early, gave them a big pompous speech about how only the President has the authority to authorize gas warfare, but one individual has arrogantly taken upon himself to launch it. He told them:
"If one of you detects this individual launching gas warfare you will shout 'GAS' and he will put on his gas mask and do 25 push-ups! If I or any of the other cadre detect it first you will ALL put on your gas mask and do 25 push-ups!" The next day he dropped them 4 times, one of the other DIs dropped them 4 times, one of the other cadre dropped them once, one of the officers dropped them once-while they were in the chow line. By the end of the day they were ready to kill that kid.
4. Fort McClellan, 1980. One veteran arrived for MP OSUT, found he was classified as a "heavy drop"-aka a fat boy. He arrived 6'4", 240 pounds, left 12 weeks later, 6'4", 180 pounds.
5. Fort Jackson, the 1980s. Several veterans from this period have said they were restricted to the company area-no snacks, no care packages from home, you ate what they put on your tray, that was it. One said they had a fat boys company-restricted diet and extra PT. Also about this time the "No Smoking in Basic" restriction was established. Those who thought their DIs had been born yesterday saw the error of their ways.

 

[Ziggy2525]

I’m not sure I’d call your examples brutality. I was at Fort Polk in early ‘73. If you couldn’t keep up with PT, you got extra PT. If you goofed up, you got extra PT. Sometimes you’d get extra PT for no reason at all.

People that couldn’t keep up during double time marching (a slow jog - for those that don’t know) got to double time around their platoon during normal marching. If none of that improved their fitness level enough and they were overweight, they went to a “fatboy” platoon. From what I heard, restricted diet and lots of double time marching.

For all it’s faults, from what I saw, the Army had a good track record of getting people to a normal weight in BCT. Skinny guys put on weight. Overweight guys lost weight.

Lots of verbal abuse, but I never saw outright brutality by drill sergeants like by the DI in the movie FMJ.

 

[UncleEd]

Early 1960s and saw no real physical
punching or brutality by Army sergeants,
most of whom I figured were WWII or
Korean vets.

However, one time on entering mess hall
all of us were checked for bruised knuckles
and word got around that one of the sergeants
was beaten but I don't think it was actually
within our training company.

A little while later heard a story of sergeant who
suffered injuries during the night in a barracks attack.
A blanket was thrown over him and he was shoved
down the stairs.

The Army was mostly draftees and I think a number
of recruits were from the real mean streets of big
cities and weren't impressed by a lot of
authority.

 

[Jessie]

I never saw a DI touch a recruit. They didn’t have to. They devised devious ways of making you hurt yourself when you screwed up.
All abuse was verbal and mental and there was no limit to that. You’d learn real fast that it didn’t mean much or you would go crazy.
It was a great primer for life.

 

[Donn]

Physical abuse in front of the troops was a no-no when I went thru BCT at Ft. Knox in '69. However, there was "laundry detail." When all other disciplinary methods failed on a recalcitrant troop, he was ordered to said detail. Inside the supply room, 3-4 DI's waited. The laundry bags were stacked against the walls in case someone had a violent collision with one. Once the trainee was sufficiently tuned up, he usually returned to duty with a fresh outlook.

 

[Ziggy2525]

I never saw a DI touch a recruit. They didn’t have to. They devised devious ways of making you hurt yourself when you screwed up.
All abuse was verbal and mental and there was no limit to that. You’d learn real fast that it didn’t mean much or you would go crazy.
It was a great primer for life.

Same here, except for when we went through the POW camp during Survival, Escape, and Evasion training. In the POW camp, the cadre got to lightly pummel you, push you around, and whack you on the back of your legs with a willow switch.

No brutality, but it definitely added an edge to the role playing.

 

[glowe]

Basic Training is more psychological training than physical in my mind. You are taking people who are barely adults and turning them into warriors. Not an easy task. There is a very good piece on this available for those who want to read it at: Why is boot camp so intense?

Wait, before you dismiss this information as coming from a left-leaning source, I will attest to the fact that it is almost exactly what I witnessed in the late-Vietnam era basic training. This was from a Marine perspective, but not that much different in other branches of service. I was in a unique situation in that, although my draft lottery number was "4" I was in college and obtained a student deferment. Upon graduation and getting my first job in 1970, the system caught up with me so I was 23 when I went into the Army. In a way my age gave me a unique opportunity to actually study the process almost removed from the emotional stress and strain that most 18 year olds went through. The part that the article did not address is how the system could be worked to a person's advantage. Because of my education and age, I was immediately made a squad leader which was a position that kept one out of much of the tedious chores like KP, guard duty, etc. At the end of basics everyone had to take the "final exam" in order to graduate. Not all made it through the mental and physical testing. Again, having gained insights on how the system worked, I was lucky to be able to gain a perfect score. Why did I bother? Well the test scores greatly assisted one in being assigned to choice Advanced Individual Training. Higher the score, better the assignment. Of course the lower the score, the higher chances of getting very dangerous assignments. The high score also gave me a squad leader position at my AIT training assignment.

Excerpt from article"
The most important single thing to know about boot camp is that it is 100 percent designed to reprogram children and civilians into warriors. It places within them a sense that they are expected to do important things, far more important things than could be expected from other 18-year-olds. This is all happening during one of the most intensely stressful periods of your life, when you are kept isolated from contact from your family and friends and taught that everything you were before entering the Marines was weak and lacking any real value until you too are a Marine. Cults are made this way too. I’m just saying. But in all seriousness, the psychological transformation of boot camp is a very intense and intentional effort by the Marine Corps to make warriors able to fight and kill out of kids who have just barely left high school. From the point that you graduate boot camp, you will be different and have parts of the Marine Corps culture as part of your psyche.

 

[old tanker]

The "fatboys" were often assigned duty as roadguards. Normal movement to training was by marching. Road guards had to run ahead of the column to block an intersection, then after the columns had passed, run back to their place in formation. Careful use of the commands, "Road guards, POST" and "Road guards, RECOVER" allowed the Drill Sergeant to keep them sprinting back and forth for most of the march.

 

[Bullet Bob]

I wasn't skinny when I went to basic, but I did gain 5 pounds during that pleasant time. It had been a while since anyone had made me sit down and eat three times a day.

 

[Funflyer]

In the Air Force, we pushed brooms to keep us in shape

 

[BearBio]

In 1971-72, I did see a Drill Sergeant beat a guy up. The DS was a black belt in several martial arts and the recruit kicked the DS in the "tender area". The DS hit him twice and the recruit went down! The DS told me to call the MPs.

When I was asked what I saw , I replied "I saw the Drill Sergeant forced to defend himself, Sir!".

Ironically, the DS was a nice guy.

Otherwise, it was extra PT, restriction to company area on weekends, extra duty, etc.

Edits: I was assigned to the STC (Special Training Company) AKA "Fat Farm". But it really wasn't that. I was sent because I had failed my final PT tests (due to an undisclosed illness which turned out to be "sub-clinical hepatitis"). I passed after a week but couldn't ship to another company. I was in limbo until they learned I had taken typing in high school. Then they made me a clerk via OJT. We had a PT ("fat") platoon that dealt with fat, skinny and people who failed their PT tests, a motivation platoon (problem cases that didn't warrant the stockade), and an education platoon (bringing people up to standards=we had a whole graduating class from an Eskimo school who needed tutoring in speaking English) After six months of tests, the Army decided I had had hepatitis and they sent me home. Working in the orderly room, I got to know the CO, XO and the DS's pretty well.

 

[H Richard]

I was told the meals were designed to add weight if you were too thin and to lose weight if you were over weight. I guess I was average, as I stayed the same.

 

[glowe]

Food all looked the same to me and I saw no difference or choices for food offered in my era of basic training. SOS, lots of beef, eggs, potatoes, and lots of calories. I ate it all and lost 25 pounds in 8 weeks and was at the lowest weight in my adult life before or after basic training.

 

[cherrypointmarine]

We had a special platoon where the overweight recruits went to . Don't know what happened there and didn't want to find out . Their training didn't start until they lost the weight and joined a platoon , so no telling how long they were there .

 

[JohnRippert]

Your number 2 example sounds like they gave the guy a break. They could have waited until after he ate and then took him for a run until he puked.

 

[moosedog]

There's no reason that anyone, especially a young person should let themselves get that out of shape.

 

[UncleEd]

There's no reason that anyone, especially a young person should let themselves get that out of shape.

Quite true but....listened to an interview of Mexico's
national health director. She said when NAFTA came
in, Mexico started importing all sorts of snack foods
from the U.S. And the health department noticed
that kids were really getting chubby and out of shape.

All the prepared foods are either loaded with salt or
sugars, actually corn syrups.

And the U.S. kids aren't getting enough exercise.
Stories have recently appeared that the pool of
eligible military recruits is shrinking because of
obesity throughout the country.

 

[Aggie1906]

I was a draft volunteer after college, 22 years old. Lots of carbs, solid and liquid, made me a candidate for an extra run before breakfast, and yes, also a road guard. That worked wonders. Came out of basic in great shape. Never saw much in the way actual physical abuse. OK, leg lifts and front leaning rest when not running. Nobody I saw got hit. Wouda been drafted the next month, so nothing heroic going on.
Considered myself an accomplished test-taker, and gave the best scores I could. Not like the smart younguns who thought they would resist authority. Always bad idea.

 

[double-dipper]

I am a former United States Army Drill Sergeant. I was on the trail Jan 1997- Jan 99 at Fort Leonard Wood 3rd Training BDE, B Co 3-10 IN. Best two years of my 21 year Army Career. Some PVT's just needed a little extra motivation to get it right. BTW: The Marine's are Drill Instructors. DI's, The Army we are Drill Sergeants get it strait now drop and give me twenty.

 

[Rustyt1953]

My boot camp take aways:

I went in at 232 lbs. I came out at 210. A week in my TI said that if I didn't shed some weight and improve my stamina I would be transferred out to a (I hope I get this name right) A midriff flight that deals with the marginally fit.

I got busy and started doing push aways.

I never saw TI's get physical with recruits but the worst punishment they could mete out was a day of "pots and pans" in the mess kitchen. A truly miserable experience that I twice earned.

I learned some valuable life lessons there. I can still correctly iron the pleats in a cummerbund and fold an origami dinner napkin.

 

[steelslaver]

We had a special platoon where the overweight recruits went to . Don't know what happened there and didn't want to find out . Their training didn't start until they lost the weight and joined a platoon , so no telling how long they were there .

Ya, I heard about physical conditioning platoon. Didn't want to end up there. We picked up a guy from there about 1/2 way though, he was a big guy but strong. Said he had lost a bunch of weight. Didn't want to end up in motivation either. My brother went over the fence in boot camp and ended up in motivation. Said they were formed into a circle and with E tools. Took a shovelful of dirt and tossed it to the side, took a step and repeated. This while wearing full utilities and belt with 2 canteens of water they were not allowed to drink. Around and around they went making a round ditch. Then the filled it back in same way. Once a kid threw down his E tool and said F it I am not doing it. DI went over and said thats alright son go sit in the shade drink some water, smoke a cigarette. Kid did that while the rest started digging again. Then the DI went over and coaxed the kid back into the trench. Brother said they made a trip around , the kid threw down his shovel and started to say something when the kid behind him knocked him cold with his E tool. I don't think my brother was feeding me BS either.

I haven't even told about the most mentally brutal thing I ever saw. I don't know if our platoon and company was different, that most of those in my era, but I don't thinks so. Lots of others from my time in the Corps, told similar stories to me. We laughed about them later. Physical abuse was very common and sometimes a PVT would attack a nother PVT that was causing the platoon problems. I personally was struck several times, had my throat gripped etc. Made to do push ups on my knuckles. I was never really injured. I saw one guy get his arm broke and another had to get stitches. Dead serious. The one guy was pushed onto the asphalt and the other was hit in the back of the head by another PVT for holding him up during a run.

 

[Tom S.]

My ex-brother-in-law, who was raised in Detroit, joined the army in the early 60's to avoid jail. During the self-defense training, the DI asked if anyone thought they could whip him. My BIL said yes, and lived up to his word. Unknown to the DI, my BIL not only had street training, he was a certified black belt in karate. Two days later, several DI's jumped him and repaid the butt-whooping. After graduating, they made him a DI...

 

[Old cop]

I went through Navy boot camp in ‘65 and our DI was like Gunny Hartman in Full Metal Jacket but I never saw him hit anyone. He didn’t need to, he was huge in stature and his verbal abuse was meted out to everyone. I did a LOT of growing up in that eight weeks and it prepared me for real life. To this day I’m shaved & showered in less than 10 minutes.

 

[BlackAgnes]

In 1966, USAF Basic Training, a buddy and I were "assigned" an overweight troop and we arm-in-arm carried him through two-mile runs and PT. He did OK, but only lost a little weight.

I was 19 at the time and came out of boot hard as a nail.

Not so much anymore...!

Tim

 

[Smoke]

I did basic training at Fort Sill in February 1988. The closest thing I saw to physical abuse was one Drill Sergeant would walk through the mess hall and if he saw you take a bite of food and then put your fork down to chew instead of forking up the next bite as soon as that fork hit the table he'd tell you "You're done get out." It didn't matter if it was your first bite of food.

 

[Oracle]

I attended the Coast Guard boot camp in 1970. I was bean pole thin at the start and came out 40 pounds heavier and in excellent condition. The draft was running full speed during that period, around 90% of my company including myself received directives to report draft notices during boot camp. All of us wanted to serve our country and to do so in a service we chose. If we fouled up we would bounced out and the draft was waiting at the door. This was an excellent motivator for us to get with and stay with the program.

I never received or witnessed any abuse. One instance I remember to this day. A first class petty officer was riding a bicycle and had a large overflowing grocery bag in his left arm. We naturally rendered a salute to him, he returned the salute, lost control of bicycle and crashed into a rose bush hedge. We couldn't stop the laughter and he didn't see the humor. All of us had to high port rifles around the parade ground an hour a day for three days.

 

[Turn4811]

IN '83 I went to basic at Lackland. I was 190 lbs and ran 3 miles daily. When I graduated basic I had a two week old sprained ankle that was not getting enough down time to heal. I was put on the fat boy program as I was 4 pounds from my max weight even though I was at 9 % body fat.

I spent the rest of my military carrier just over my max weight but well under the body fat index max. Basic was just a head game. Those who had weak minds were weeded out. The follow on school also had a weeding out process.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I saw no brutality in my BCT experience at Fort Dix, C-4-2, Summer of 1967. Fort Dix was the only large Army base in the Northeast, the only one conducting BCT, since it was between New York and Philadelphia it was subject to a lot of media scrutiny, there were a couple of recruits deaths in the year before I enlisted, that led to a lot of negative publicity.
The word that struck fear and terror into every trainee at that time was-
"RECYCLED !" The 3 reasons for being recycled were illness, injury and-PT failure. There was no fat boys company that I knew of, I don't recall the cadre following any of the fatties down the chow line. At the end of the 4th week there was a make or break PT test, those who failed it were -RECYCLED ! I walked past the room of one of those who boloed it and was slated to be RECYCLED !-he was stuffing his fat face with a hamburger.

 

[docjonson]

AF basic was pretty tame. Didn't see any rough stuff from DIs. While qualifing with M14 the DI slapped me on the head with his cap. I asked what the heck was wrong, he said "That weapon is to be shot from your right shoulder, not your left". I qualified off my right shoulder, then while he was getting 3 or 4 guys to shoot their correct target and not their buddys, I asked if I coud fire another magazine off my left shoulder. Supprisingly he allowed, shot almost perfect score but he wouldn't give me the better score. In the scheme of things it hasn't affected my life one bit.

 

[RobertJ.]

I went into basic in San Diego, November 1980. It was pretty tame. My friend Kip had been in the Army, and he told me to watch out for head games, and I recognized them almost immediately. I kept my head down and my mouth shut, and it was pretty painless.

At the end of basic, our Company Commander (DI) barely even knew my name. There were eight guys in our company who never went to a "marching party" ((strenuous PT after taps as a disciplinary action) and I was one of them.

I did hear a phrase used while I was in that I hadn't heard before or since. A group of us were cleaning the barracks, and one of the guys knew how to juggle. Well, so do I, and we were having a great time juggling balls of socks, when our CC came in and yelled, "KNOCK OFF THAT JUGGLING!!!" Like I said, I hadn't heard that before or since.