Buying all the shockwaves i can
- Thread starter Scotiapilot
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ChattanoogaPhil
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Self defense.
I wanted an option in my truck in a addition to a handgun.
The size of the Shockwave makes it preferable to my Winchester Defender where compact size is a plus.
On a personal note, my minor neck ailment much prefers practice with the Shockwave compared to the neck-jarring of the Winchester on my shoulder. Hand, wrist, elbow and shoulder joints absorb recoil well and quite differently compared to the conventional stock. I didn't understand that until I began shooting the Shockwave. Best $300 I've spent on firearms in a while. Very pleased.
I wanted an option in my truck in a addition to a handgun.
The size of the Shockwave makes it preferable to my Winchester Defender where compact size is a plus.
On a personal note, my minor neck ailment much prefers practice with the Shockwave compared to the neck-jarring of the Winchester on my shoulder. Hand, wrist, elbow and shoulder joints absorb recoil well and quite differently compared to the conventional stock. I didn't understand that until I began shooting the Shockwave. Best $300 I've spent on firearms in a while. Very pleased.
I see car/truck gun frequently mentioned in threads about these types of guns, but in what type of defense scenario is it the best option or even a practical choice?
I think it would be extremely awkward and infeasible to use one from inside a vehicle even in scenarios where the the door is open. If having to quickly exit the vehicle, even if it's kept fairly accessible, it would still be relatively slow to bring into action compared to a handgun worn on the body. It would also be comparatively clumsy to maneuver around the vehicle as well as fire while on the move.
Some people keep AR's in their vehicle with the intent being to intervene in some type of active-shooter situation, but the shockwave is a short range weapon and wouldn't be a very effective option in such cases.
I'm just trying to figure out even a niche role where this gun makes sense to me.
I think it would be extremely awkward and infeasible to use one from inside a vehicle even in scenarios where the the door is open. If having to quickly exit the vehicle, even if it's kept fairly accessible, it would still be relatively slow to bring into action compared to a handgun worn on the body. It would also be comparatively clumsy to maneuver around the vehicle as well as fire while on the move.
Some people keep AR's in their vehicle with the intent being to intervene in some type of active-shooter situation, but the shockwave is a short range weapon and wouldn't be a very effective option in such cases.
I'm just trying to figure out even a niche role where this gun makes sense to me.
jag312
Member
My response to the anti-gun people who ask me that question is, "I need only four things in life; food, clothing, shelter, and good health. I don't need a gun, but I want that gun." That usually stops them, but if they want to continue, I can start picking apart their "wants".
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Actually I only need food plus good health. Got no problems going nekkid and shelter is just a bridge away.
As far as guns...yea, I want them!
I think it is a toy, too. I have a standard Remington 870 with a pistol grip and I plan to give it to my brother as soon as he obtains the correct paperwork for his gun unfriendly jurisdiction. He needs something as small as possible to hide in his home and he wants it as cheap as possible. I warned him about recoil. He can't get a gun cheaper than me giving him one.
My point is, I simply think that to properly use a shotgun you need a stock. I have seen my share of sawed off shotguns, short barrels and cut stocks. I wouldn't think of firing one. If I need a small gun I can reach one of those other contraptions. I think they are called pistols or revolvers or handguns or something like that.
There are two exceptions I would consider making to that rule. One is the so-called "Mare's Leg" short rifle that is qualified as a pistol. The other is the new Pedersoli "Howdah" .45/,410, defined as a handgun because of its rifled barrels, so it is not a short barreled shotgun, and capable of firing .45 Colt cartridges or .410 shotgun shells. An old fashioned, newly resurrected, former hunting weapon from the days of the Raj and just really cool. Way more cool than the Shockwave.
My point is, I simply think that to properly use a shotgun you need a stock. I have seen my share of sawed off shotguns, short barrels and cut stocks. I wouldn't think of firing one. If I need a small gun I can reach one of those other contraptions. I think they are called pistols or revolvers or handguns or something like that.
There are two exceptions I would consider making to that rule. One is the so-called "Mare's Leg" short rifle that is qualified as a pistol. The other is the new Pedersoli "Howdah" .45/,410, defined as a handgun because of its rifled barrels, so it is not a short barreled shotgun, and capable of firing .45 Colt cartridges or .410 shotgun shells. An old fashioned, newly resurrected, former hunting weapon from the days of the Raj and just really cool. Way more cool than the Shockwave.
OP
Scotiapilot
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I just liked it now, so its official and now the OP liked it.
Speculation, the worst case is I make 50 dollars off of each one of the rems I bought due to the 50 rebate.........Buy low sell high.
I cant argue about some of the political and NFA rules regs and what congress MUST do etc. Fact is it has happened before and it has paid off well for me doing small things like that. 4K is a small amount to drop for a MINIMUM 50 dollar return on 300 investment. Supply and demand works wonders. If you can make money any easier and still have fun doing it, its a gold mine.
Usefulness!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You guys must be kidding me. Are we day dreaming about SHTF or mega intruders, zombies? This about pulling a trigger and it going boom. blowing stuff up, and having fun. Trying to put rationale on one guy owning several guns and he only has 2 trigger fingers Is like screaming in space.
LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS'S lets have fun. Its a seriously cool shotgun that makes a big loud sound and blows up milk jugs , car doors and whatever else you want to shoot at. Trying to make a discussion of the "actual" usefulness of any SINGLE weapon is ALWAYS subjective. YMMV.
its a fun gun for 3 bills. Just another one to add to the arsenal.
Speculation, the worst case is I make 50 dollars off of each one of the rems I bought due to the 50 rebate.........Buy low sell high.
I cant argue about some of the political and NFA rules regs and what congress MUST do etc. Fact is it has happened before and it has paid off well for me doing small things like that. 4K is a small amount to drop for a MINIMUM 50 dollar return on 300 investment. Supply and demand works wonders. If you can make money any easier and still have fun doing it, its a gold mine.
Usefulness!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You guys must be kidding me. Are we day dreaming about SHTF or mega intruders, zombies? This about pulling a trigger and it going boom. blowing stuff up, and having fun. Trying to put rationale on one guy owning several guns and he only has 2 trigger fingers Is like screaming in space.
LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS'S lets have fun. Its a seriously cool shotgun that makes a big loud sound and blows up milk jugs , car doors and whatever else you want to shoot at. Trying to make a discussion of the "actual" usefulness of any SINGLE weapon is ALWAYS subjective. YMMV.
its a fun gun for 3 bills. Just another one to add to the arsenal.
As a further note, if the ATF decides that the Shockwave guns need tax stamps I will wager that they will not grandfather any of them and every single one will require a $200 tax stamp unless the ATF says they are "AOWs", in which case it is just extra paperwork and $5.00 tax stamp. Every owner of every single one of them will have to pay the tax or become a felon. There will be a grace period for it, presumably.
I cannot disagree with this sentiment:
I said it was a toy. If you are going to use it as a toy to "blow stuff up" then it is exactly the right gun at the right time.
I said it was a toy. If you are going to use it as a toy to "blow stuff up" then it is exactly the right gun at the right time.
codenamedave
Member
In general, not just for storage/use in a vehicle, but anywhere that is similarly cramped where the first choice would otherwise be a handgun.
My thought for the Shockwave environment was an RV or camper or a tent, where a carbine length weapon, like a full-stocked 18.5" barreled shotgun, would be difficult to maneuver. May also be a good choice for a small hunting cabin as well, where bringing your longarm to bear (To bear! Get it? I crack myself up.) would be difficult. An awful lot of people talk about carrying a .22 like an AR-7 type in a backpack, I'm thinking if you can carry that you can carry a Black Aces folder, which would be a hekuva lot faster to deploy. Now I gotta go and search to see if anybody's tried any longer range slug shooting from one of the Black Aces guns.
If I lived somewhere it was legal, I'd probably get a Shockwave until I had enough disposable income to get one of the Black Aces guns, then sell the Shockwave.
BTW nobody fires on the move off the range in the civilian world, and dang few in the military one. At least not if you want to avoid both getting shot and throwing wild shots around.
Why would the shockwave be better than a handgun in those situations?
How does movement make it more likely you'll be shot? I've spent too many years hashing things out in Force-on-Force and analyzing civilian self-defense encounters to believe that some type of movement isn't beneficial in nearly every type of defense encounter(whether it's vs a gun, blade, club, fists). Shooting while in movement is incorporated in every trip to the range and I'm confidant in my skills in that area.
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CalmerThanYou
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Shhhhhh...the current classification of the Shockwave is just fine.
Foolish, but you asked.
rburg
Member
Oh GAWD, I don't need images of Caje nekkid. He should just put his pants back on. Too much for my diseased mind.
And now we have gun people, presumably, making suggestions about the ATF classifying them. Just wait until some idiot makes a bump stock for them! (don't laugh, the old M12 would just keep firing if you held the trigger back and pumped the thing!) Just wait till the media hears about auto shotguns!
I've already bought all I can afford...One. And I broke my old rule about not buying off brand guns.
On the news as I was typing the above the gun expert/reporter was asking if we thought the government should ban devices to increase the trigger speed. Obviously the station was implying they should. I thought S&W did that back in 1940 with the Speed Hammer improvement. It upsets me that we've got really stupid reporters making suggestions about things they know nothing about. And from the past, I know she just idolized the Obamaination.
And now we have gun people, presumably, making suggestions about the ATF classifying them. Just wait until some idiot makes a bump stock for them! (don't laugh, the old M12 would just keep firing if you held the trigger back and pumped the thing!) Just wait till the media hears about auto shotguns!
I've already bought all I can afford...One. And I broke my old rule about not buying off brand guns.
On the news as I was typing the above the gun expert/reporter was asking if we thought the government should ban devices to increase the trigger speed. Obviously the station was implying they should. I thought S&W did that back in 1940 with the Speed Hammer improvement. It upsets me that we've got really stupid reporters making suggestions about things they know nothing about. And from the past, I know she just idolized the Obamaination.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
Hahaha! You have completely won me over with this post. I think I'll get one too!
dubshooter
Member
I always kind of chuckle when the usefulness question comes up with guns but doesn't come up with the Camaro SS or Mustang GT cars. The speed limit is the same weather you're in a Kia or a muscle car.
Some people want something. If it don't hurt me, I say go for it. I'll stick with my lever rifles and revolvers for my "fun" and defense. But if you want an AR or a shockwave, more power to you!
Some people want something. If it don't hurt me, I say go for it. I'll stick with my lever rifles and revolvers for my "fun" and defense. But if you want an AR or a shockwave, more power to you!
codenamedave
Member
Perhaps there are a few more things you could maybe hash out.
Like the difference between being shot with a 12 ga load of buckshot or a 9mm from a handgun.
Like the different reactions you'll get from an average punk who sees: A. (What he thinks is) a sawed-off shotgun come up at him v. a pistol, or B. His cohort get shot by (what he thinks is) a sawed-off shotgun v. a pistol.
Like how you don't move unless you're going to better cover, or if you're part of a team doing the shoot scoot & shout routine to press an objective. If you never go anywhere without trained armed friends you can trust not to get too stupid under fire, then MAYBE such movement would be ok, although many including the authorities and pretty much every rational civilian firearms instructor would say otherwise. We're talking about defending against a criminal or a whack job on the American street, not closing with and contacting enemy combatants in some other country.
Like how if you do move to better cover, you haul a**, you don't "groucho" or whatever the current fad is so you can shoot accurately. If you can run flat out as fast as you can and still shoot accurately, by all means carry on.
But anyway, stocking up on Shockwaves may not bring riches, but at least, like most guns, they'll always be worth something, as opposed to buying stock in your neighbor's solar-powered snow-blower start up or sumtin.
Obviously the greater power factor is the primary advantage of the shockwave over a handgun. No dispute there. However, that greater power is of no benefit if it can't be brought to bear or you lose control of the weapon.
In what type of scenario would you be using the shockwave for "defending against a criminal or a whack job on the American street"?
I have to expect any personal defense encounter I'm involved in away from my home will be reactive. Obviously the shockwave is not a practical concealed carry weapon so all those scenarios are excluded. That leaves defense scenarios in or around your vehicle. I don't think too many people would make the case that the shockwave would be more effective or practical than a handgun to use from inside the car so that's out as well and only leaves grabbing it and exiting the vehicle.
The handgun can be kept more readily accessible, is quicker to bring into action, offers better retention and can be operated effectively while in movement. The degree of movement necessary varies and I never referenced any particular type, but movement is nonetheless often a key component is such instances since at least one party will try to maneuver around the vehicle to get a better shot. There are plenty of videos to verify what typically occurs. And it's not all about gunfights. Scenarios involving unarmed assailants or those armed with contact weapons occurring at extreme close-quarters must be considered. With a handgun, I have a free hand to utilize in ECQ encounters and better retention compared with a two handed weapon. Creating separation is often the best response and is much easier to do with a handgun.
And yes, I have spent a lot of time training to be able to put rounds on target while GOTX or more accurately, while exploding off the X although that degree of movement isn't always what's necessary.
In terms of home defense and having to move through a home or otherwise being forced to maneuver in confined spaces and negotiate corners, a pistol grip shotgun still requires two hands to operate and lacks the weapon retention capabilities of a handgun. The handgun also retains it's functionality even if the free hand is busy doing something else(opening/closing doors or windows, operating lights, ECQ defense, calling 911, carrying a child etc.). Not so with the shockwave.
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Could it be that the reason that the bird's-head grip of the shockwave is so much less punishing than a pistol grip is due to the fact that it is being held with the hand and arm perpendicular and the wrist joint parallel to to the thrust vector of the recoil. This means that the wrist joint doesn't experience compression, and the arm can absorb the recoil impulse with a rotating motion from the shoulder.
With a pistol grip your hand and arm are inline and your wrist joint is perpendicular to the thrust vector of the recoil impulse - which means your wrist joint DOES experience compression, and the recoil impulse is transmitted in an inline fashion directly down your forearm and to the rest of your body.
Kind of like the difference between an underhanded "basket" catch of a fly ball, vs. a stiff-armed overhand catch of a line-drive headed right for your face.
Looking at the mechanics of the situation, it makes perfect sense to me that the shockwave grip would be a lot less punishing than a pistol grip.
With a pistol grip your hand and arm are inline and your wrist joint is perpendicular to the thrust vector of the recoil impulse - which means your wrist joint DOES experience compression, and the recoil impulse is transmitted in an inline fashion directly down your forearm and to the rest of your body.
Kind of like the difference between an underhanded "basket" catch of a fly ball, vs. a stiff-armed overhand catch of a line-drive headed right for your face.
Looking at the mechanics of the situation, it makes perfect sense to me that the shockwave grip would be a lot less punishing than a pistol grip.
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