Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos

[Jim NNN]

I haven't read through the comments, so excuse me if I'm stating previously stated opinions. I think that revolvers may not be more reliable than semi-autos when you add the reloading the gun into the equation. Maybe even less reliable.

First, there's the problem of ejecting spent shells; some cartridges might expand or some cylinder bores may not be smooth enough to allow easy extraction. I've had also some cylinders on some revolvers bind a little bit after stout or heavily loaded rounds so that releasing and opening the cylinder required some effort.

Second, revolver speed loaders and strips are far more awkward to use quickly than semi-auto magazines. True, that may not be an issue of the gun actually failing, but it is a matter of the gun not being able to be reloaded as quickly, whatever the cause.

Having said that, if you limit the reliability comparison to the rounds that are loaded in the gun, and don't consider reloading, the revolver is more reliable. I mention this because the statistics I've read so many times say that the typical self defense gunfight is over after just a few rounds. In that scenario, I'd rather have a revolver. Nobody ever limp wristed a revolver, and revolvers are less picky as to the brand and type of ammo they use, despite the recent improvements in semi-auto reliability. I have a nice newer Ruger SR40c that'll eat almost everything, but won't cycle Winchester white box at all.

Of course, these are all generalizations. There are many semi-autos that are ultra reliable and a few revolvers that have problems.

 

[ImDrRich]

I have converted my handgun-owning to mostly revolvers (with the exception of two semi-autos that I'm very fond of: a Colt Commander in .45acp and a Walther PP in .380). Neither of these are finicky.

I'm much more at ease with my Smith & Wesson revolvers. I have a sense of security that each will operate as it should when I am in front of the respective target. I have never had a revolver malfunction (but have had ammunition misfunctions as we all do from time-to-time). I trust that my revolvers are going to fire as they should, while even with my two trusted semi-autos there will always be a hang-up once in awhile for any number of reasons - any of which is unacceptable.

Sounds to me like you have been acquainted with a few lemons, no?

 

[Lou_the_welder]

You guys are totally right! Revolvers ARE less reliable than semi-autos! Totally true!
Please sell me all your vintage "one of a kind" revolvers, especially those Lou Horton's and what not.
I will dispose of them in a tasteful and admirable way! No reason to keep them anymore!
Gotta get me one of those fancy shmancy polymers now. To keep my shield 9 company. With those clipazines and such.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I'll wait to post my opinion after someone shows me a legitimate picture of a revolver that stovepiped.

 

[Jim NNN]

I consider the Glocks to be more DURABLE and tolerant of ABUSE, whereas I consider the revolvers to be more RELIABLE and tolerate of NEGLECT.

I agree with this. My current carry revolver is a very neglected Model 36 with a 3 inch bbl that I picked up recently for $180. It had been stored - for years, I presume - in a very wrong environment that had allowed it to rust. Not much rust in the lockwork, however, and none in the bore.

I tried to clean it up with bronze wool and kroil, but it was too far gone and pitted, so I just took some 220 grit emory cloth and it took the rust right off. It's nice to have a great quality and reliable model 36 that I don't worry about scratching when I carry. Gun works great - a testimony to a good quality revolver's tolerance of neglect.

 

[Practical]

No this is not spam.

I was hoping for a more 'engineering' based answer. I am not a mechanical engineer, but have electrical and software engineering experience. My knowledge of mechanical reliability is basically none.

The comments here agree with my experience. I have found Glocks, Pre-lock J-Frames and N Frame competition models with Locks to be extremely reliable. I have only had ONE J-frame fail due to a broken part and I have had my glocks fail in competition due to me breaking off a adjustible rear site.

However, other brands and firearm types have failed me right out of the box or shortly after. Colt's including double action revolvers and 1911s, Kahr's, and a Beretta.

I tend to watch reviews closely and am disheartened when I see brand new guns failing regularly or having minor issues that preclude their use in competition or self defense. The issue of the GP100 7 shot is an example of why I don't think most new revolver's can be trusted based on the engineering processes that bring them to us.

I am not saying all the guns today are bad, I am saying SOME of the processes used to make them are NOT suitable for creating a competition gun or self defense product. I think MOST revolvers today are relegated to the 'consumer' side of the house where the assumption is that these guns may require a customer service call at a rate higher than the Semi-Autos used in LEO.

 

[kthom]

The fact is, any mechanical thing can fail. Any manufactured thing can be less than optimum. Very few of these things are found to be unreliable across the board. The only reports of unreliability we can trust are those of our own personal experience and even those can be suspect depending on the experience and knowledge of the operator (me!).

What makes me dumbfounded are the incidences of anyone who purchases a new gun and immediately begin to depend on it to work when needed without ever firing a shot through it or maybe just a cylinder or mag full. I've had and handled cases of unreliability in both type of guns mentioned here. Some cases were easily remedied after which the gun was proven to be as reliable as anyone could hope it to be. A few others cases required the permanent retirement of the firearm for serious uses (personal protection requirements).

Even a good quality reliable gun can fail because the owner operator does not maintain it properly. In my own case, there have been times past when I wanted to blame the gun for something that was caused or allowed unintentionally to happen that resulted in failure or less than optimum performance. But an honest assessment revealed that the cause was due completely or in part by operator error ... me!

Any platform can fail at some point in time. Nothing is totally reliable forever! The guns themselves haven't basically changed much over the years. There have been a few that should never been offered for sale among both types. But there is a great deal of "change" in operators all along the way, including this operator. The guns that I own and use have been thoroughly tested and vetted and proven reliable to me. If a problem arises, that gun is "off duty" till the problem is found and cured and then tested again. All these guns are periodically tested across the board to make sure they are still worthy of my trust.

Having and carrying and depending on a firearm involves a great responsibility by the firearm's owner. The firearm is incapable of doing anything by itself! It's my responsibility to test and maintain each and every firearm I own and to make responsible choices among them. That is on me, never on the firearm. I've sent some packing of both types, but only after I had good reason to do so, including the reason that I just didn't like it even though it worked.

I'm not picking on any one here. I understand the question. And it's an interesting one to contemplate. But the answer to that question is ... well, it depends! And it depends a great deal on who's asking and who's answering! That includes me!

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...never seen an unsupported brass failure in a revolver...

...OP should have just said "I like semi-autos over revolvers"...

...would have saved a lot of bandwidth...

 

[ctxcummins]

I've seen both semis and revolvers fail. New and old.

Anything made by man can and eventually will fail.

Next.

 

[HamHands]

My only benchmark concern has always been the "reliability" of the "man". If he who carries it is "reliable", I've no doubt his kit is "reliable".

And this pretty much sums it up for me! You take the time to get to know your weapon inside and out; you maintain and train with it and use quality ammo. If I had to estimate how many rounds I've slung down range since I've been shooting... I started at 20year old and I'm 40 now... I'd comfortably say I've pulled a trigger 50 to 60 thousand times in various platforms... 1911's, Glocks, M&P's, CZ's, Smith & Colt revolvers of various calibers. In all that time and rounds shot I can count also comfortably say I've experienced maybe a couple dozen failures. That is a hell of a track record if you ask me. And half of those failures were due to quality branded factory ammo that simply had a round or two out of spec, i.e. a case length that was a half a millimeter too long, a primer that popped it's pocket, the bullet's OAL too long/short, etc... The other's I remember were worn/over stressed and fatigued magazine springs... 1911's, albeit my absolute favorite semi-auto's suffer the most from spring fatigue in my experience. I put my revo's and semi-auto's to be on par in reliability and bet my life on them almost every day. I work in Real Estate and my downtown Atlanta office is two blocks away from the CNN Center... not a very savory side of the city. Common sense and putting 300-400 trouble free rounds down the pipe of a semi-auto before CCW-ing it is a must. 200 of the same with any quality revo is a must too. YMMV...

ETA: The above round count and failure count excludes any and all .22Rimfire cartridges of course... I was strictly talking about centerfire cartridges!

 

[Old cop]

I carried a revolver for the first 20 years of my career and had to use it to defend myself three times so I do trust that platform. We transitioned to Glocks in my last 10 years and saw few, if any problems, with either weapon system. As a retiree I continue to carry a revolver b/c that's where my comfort level is, but I no longer run into gunfire or otherwise look for trouble. Modern auto loaders make sense for today's LEO and I would not feel comfortable w/o one on the street today.

 

[crstrode]

Exactly, you are welcome to try, but in my 30 years of shooting experience there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that semis are nowhere near as reliable as a revolver.

Ditto from me - except make that 50 years.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Does it really matter? People are going to carry what they feel best suites them. Same as they drive vehicles that best suites them.

Most guns go boom when the trigger is pulled, if they don't replace them.

 

[HamHands]

You guys are totally right! Revolvers ARE less reliable than semi-autos! Totally true!
Please sell me all your vintage "one of a kind" revolvers, especially those Lou Horton's and what not.
I will dispose of them in a tasteful and admirable way! No reason to keep them anymore!
Gotta get me one of those fancy shmancy polymers now. To keep my shield 9 company. With those clipazines and such.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Ain't that the truth. I love the "Lew Horton Specials"... I just got my Smith & Wesson Historical Society letter yesterday stating the history of my new to me 85' manufactured LWS, 3" barreled .44Magnum/Special... I think this is my favorite Revo I've ever held and shot!

 

[bigggbbruce]

What pushed me to this post was watching a youtube video of a 7 Shot GP100 which could not close it's cylinder because some brass specs were a little too large. Maybe the rims expanded or were out of spec, but when a revolver can't be closed because of it's design when loaded the manufacturer has reached a new low.

Try out of spec ammo in a semi...

 

[bigggbbruce]

..............

 

[Triggernosis]

Shot 200 rounds this morning.
100 thru my new SIG P365. 3 failures to lock back when the mag was empty.
100 thru my 3" 686+. No issues.
What does this prove? Probably nothing.

You're correct. I mean, your 686 didn't lock back either when it was empty.

 

[75Vette]

With those clipazines and such.

Lou, I think the clipazines are exclusive to 9 mmmm mmmm G Locks.

 

[crstrode]

No reasonably experienced shooter is surprised when a semi-auto gun malfunctions - they are trained to expect it.

On the other hand, revolver malfunctions are indeed a surprise. Most reasonably experienced shooters have not experienced such an event.

 

[zzclancy]

Revolver for reliability and simplicity.

 

[rwsmith]

I declare....

I declare that everybody's posts, except the first one, are all valid arguments. With a high quality, well maintained HANDGUN with good quality ammo there is little difference between the two in reliability while knowing that there are some differences between how they COULD fail, on the possible occurrence that one does, and know that no mechanical system is perfect, or stays perfect under use.

 

[Echo40]

Honestly, does it really matter?

In my experience, reliability/function seem to vary between individual firearms, which is most often in turn a reflection of the firearm's owner and the amount of diligence they demonstrate towards their firearm, ergo you can have 2 of the same firearm from the same lot function differently just because one of them is shot/cleaned more often.
Furthermore, there are a number of different variables at play which can cause or otherwise contribute towards the malfunction/failure of a firearm, many of which are liable to be more or less problematic between semiautomatic pistols and Revolvers, ergo the performance of either type of firearm can be highly situational.

Personally, I think that as long as the firearm is reliable enough to function when needed, then questions in concern to that which is "more reliable" are completely irrelevant, serving as little more than juvenile schoolyard-esq "My dad could totally beat up your dad!" argument fodder. At least as far as civilians are concerned, anyway.

I like both Revolvers and Semiautomatic Pistols, use both of them for different purposes, and enjoy them both equally, so I don't have a personal stake in arguments in regards to which design is more reliable, but even if I did prefer one over the other in general, then I would still think that it's a silly argument.

Just carry whatever you like, as long as it functions reliable when properly cleaned/lubricated/maintained, then that's really all you have to worry about. Everything else is just a lot of "what-ifs" which nobody can ever be adequately prepare for because there are simply too many variables to consider without driving yourself crazy to the point that you are literally irrational/paranoid in your desperate struggle to prepare yourself for every dire situation your mind can possibly conjure and thus no longer capable of making any informed decision to begin with. The world is imperfect, mankind is imperfect, mankind's creations are imperfect, you are imperfect too, ergo their can be no such thing as perfect preparation/flawless execution, so you just gotta do the best that you can do with reasonable/realistic limitations in mind.

 

[500SNW]

I'd be inclined to agree with the OP. For the first 8 years of concealed carrying, I carried some form of Glock. Never had an issue with any of them, and they always went bang every time I pulled the trigger. Switched over to revolvers about 3 or 4 years ago. In that time, my CC revolver has locked up three times due to crimp jump, and has suffered a cracked up firing pin which still needs to be replaced. Based on my limited experience to date, I wouldn't say revolvers are more reliable...but perhaps I'd say that revolvers and modern semi-autos are about equal in terms of reliability.

 

[Mister X]

In that time, my CC revolver has locked up three times due to crimp jump.

What gun and what ammo?

 

[dr. mordo]

...I haven't developed a revolver routine...haven't needed to...

Neither have I, and I carry two of them every day.

 

[RGVshooter]

What pushed me to this post was watching a youtube video of a 7 Shot GP100 which could not close it's cylinder because some brass specs were a little too large. Maybe the rims expanded or were out of spec, but when a revolver can't be closed because of it's design when loaded the manufacturer has reached a new low. Unfortunately this is not new, I had a new Colt double action revolver fail to function with almost all brands of ammo 20+ years ago. It only held 6 rounds. Just before they stopped making revolvers. I can see why they stopped. Why ruin your reputation.

I no longer believe in revolvers...

So you're basing your opinion that revolvers are not reliable on just one youtube video and your experience with a colt 20 yrs ago?

Why is this post in the revolver section and not in "The lounge"?

I'm outta here......

 

[Ranger514]

To answer the OP's initial question: No. He bought a lemon Colt 20+ years ago, which colored his opinion. Then, he saw a video of a Ruger revolver that had a malfunction. Case closed: revolvers are inferior to semi-autos.

Sorry, I respectfully disagree. I've been owning, shooting, and carrying both types for over 40 years. No firearm is free of risk of breakage or malfunction. Find the manual of arms that suits you best through trial. Use quality ammunition. Practice often to maintain skill and gain confidence in your defensive firearm. Inspect and maintain your firearm(s) regularly.

In my personal firearms history, I've had more "failures" with semi-autos than I've had with revolvers. The worst was a broken extractor on my duty carry Sig P229 after approximately 30k rounds fired. The rest were minor clearing issues that were quickly remedied, and would not have taken me out of the fight had I needed to defend myself. Nowadays, my most frequent off-property concealed carry is a Sig subcompact DAO P290RS 9mm, but my Smiths get carried around the homestead, and out in the woods. I like having a choice in firearm selection.

 

[Practical]

This is not a revolver versus Semi-Auto thread. The issue I did not convey well enough is that how a product is designed and manufactured results in a level of reliability. The features the product has as well as the processes used to make it will affect it's reliability and its meeting requirements.

I don't believe today's revolvers except for a few are designed and manufactured to the same standards as today's semi-autos.

The M&P revolver might be.

I have had both semi-autos and revolvers fail. I have had magazines drop their base plate spilling ammo at the range. I have had rifles and shotguns fail to cycle and fire in competition and even hunting. If you use guns enough they will fail. I have had new and old guns fail to work.

My point is I think you are more likely to get a semi-auto that if you calculate an MTBF or a calculation of whether it would fire reliably if carried for 5 years ASSUMING you maintain the gun the numbers for the Semi-Auto would be higher than we think.

I don't know how to make the calculations. The answer above was the closest I have found.

For my use I have decided to use Polymer semi-autos and J-Frame. They have worked the most for me.

 

[3rdgeargrndrr]

Give any gun to me and i will swap it out with so many aftermarket parts they will all be unreliable as ****.

 

[federali]

Odd ball revolver stoppages

While conducting firearms training for my office, prior to transitioning to autoloaders, I witnessed the following stoppage:
a ham-handed agent, while reloading, managed to get a fired casing under the extractor star yet still in the chamber. This was with either an S&W Model 36 or a Colt Detective Special. Don't remember which. Getting that casing out took some manipulation. This was not a fault of the gun but how the user interacted with the gun.

I obtained a box of Norma factory loads in .357 Magnum. Using them in my S&W Model 19, The ammo was so hot that the primer extruded into the hammer nose hole in the frame, effectively locking up the cylinder. To open, it was necessary to bash the cylinder against a wooden structure while holding the cylinder release in order to shear off the extruded primer material.

And yes, I've had my fair share of stoppages with autoloaders.

I was honored to be able to write a portion of the instruction manual that accompanies every Kahr handgun. As I recall, I said that reliability depends on the interaction of the gun, the magazine, the ammunition and the user. These, alone or in combination, can affect a pistol's overall reliability.