Captain Crozier!

[WuzzFuzz]

The Navy moved at light speed to fire a captain who did not ram his ship into another vessel - Task & Purpose

A very interesting read.

1. Yes it does show that Adm Baker was on board.

2. It shows that Sec Modley was aware of conditions because of his statement."Six ve^ntiators were on board and that would be enough to treat crew members who became sick...

3. That to me contradicts Sec Modley when he says "I KNOW NOTHING".

4. Capt Crozier may have shotgunned out E:mails, but he did not leak it to the press.


Yes, I would have to agree with the author of that article, that Capt Crozier was canned because what he stated were statements that embarrassed the higher up politicals in the administration.


WuzzFuzz

 

[old bear]

Yes, I would have to agree with the author of that article, that Capt Crozier was canned because what he stated were statements that embarrassed the higher up politicals in the administration.

In a word F. the higher ups. The man did the right thing. He placed the care of those under his command before anything else.

 

[Onomea]

Further update here: Acting Navy secretary blasts ousted aircraft carrier captain as 'stupid' in address to ship's crew - CNNPolitics

 

[UncleEd]

This is the sort of thing that encourages dads like me to warn their kids away from the military. You are just cannon fodder for tin pot politicians and inept leadership. Don't join.

I used to be very pro military but as the years have passed
and the lies of high commands have been revealed, I can't
help but agree with you.

 

[ladder13]

The truth will come out without all the "articles" and political bias floating around.

 

[38SPL HV]

What the Captain did with the letter was wrong and against regulations...in different times he would had been brought up on serious charges. However, I felt that he should had been disciplined first by his direct superior and if need be work up the chain of command. Having acting Secretary of Navy directly removing him from command is not the right protocol in my opinion...it should had been done through his direct command.

...his copying to the San Francisco Chronicle was shameful but consistent with actions of many political hacks out there nowadays.

 

[Rustyt1953]

This is far above my pay grade and I am not privy to the goings on in the Pentagon think tanks but, emotions and good intentions aside, the chain of command exists for a reason.

All I can do is hope all those infected gain their health back and the TR quickly returns to battle readiness.

 

[Sistema1927]

There is a reason why there is a chain of command, and not a chain of notification or publication.

 

[Turq]

There is a reason why there is a chain of command, and not a chain of notification or publication.

Well from what I am reading, he was told by Modley's Chief of staff to skip the chain of command and contact Modley himself. And there is no reporting that I can find that says he leaked anything to the press.

"But Modly also told reporters that his own chief of staff had spoken to Crozier and encouraged him to contact their office directly if needed. As the civilian head of the Navy, Modly essentially okayed going outside the chain of command"

 

[UncleEd]

Chain of command can only work if at least
some modicum of respect exists for those
higher up. The concept that respect the rank
if not the person is a weakness that has always
existed in the military.

Throughout history millions have died because
the rank and not the person has been the
consideration. And sadly that rank was
achieved by family status, political kowtowing,
and pure selfish ambition and pure selfish
survival for a career.

 

[JJEH]

POTUS just said in today's briefing (5min ago) that he'll look into this case and that he doesn't want to destroy someone's life for having a bad day. So stay tuned...

 

[Onomea]

Thomas Modly will be fired soon.

POTUS just said in today's briefing (5min ago) that he'll look into this case and that he doesn't want to destroy someone's life for having a bad day. So stay tuned...

Things that make you go "hmmmmm..."

 

[Absalom]

Well, the toothpaste is out of the tube, and trying to squeeze it back in won't work.

The C-in-C can't figure out whom he needs to reward and whom he needs to punish for best political effect, the Secretary of Defense and the Chief of Naval Operations are desperately trying to walk the tightrope between looking incompetent, disloyal, or out of the loop, and both Capt. Crozier and Mr. Modly likely thought they did what they had to do (from completely different viewpoints) and executed their moves with questionable judgment.

Good luck untangling this clusterfudge.

 

[biku324]

Modly had to apologize for his unprofessional comments:

Modley added, "Let me be clear: I do not think Captain Brett Crozier is naive or stupid," Modly said in a statement obtained by several media outlets. "I think, and always believed him to be the opposite."

"I believe, precisely because he is not naive or stupid, that he sent his alarming email with the intention of getting it to the public domain in an attempt to draw public attention to the situation on his ship," Modly added.

"I apologize for any confusion this choice of words may have caused. I also want to apologize to directly to Captain Crozier, his family, and the entire crew of the Theodore Roosevelt for any pain my remarks may have caused."

Navy chief apologizes to aircraft carrier crew, former captain after leaked speech | TheHill

 

[Kanewpadle]

I believe that we don't know all there is to know yet.

Some famous general officers have been relieved for the same reason. Makes you wonder.

Relief of Douglas MacArthur - Wikipedia

 

[Onomea]

Modly had to apologize for his unprofessional comments:

Modley added, "Let me be clear: I do not think Captain Brett Crozier is naive or stupid," Modly said in a statement obtained by several media outlets. "I think, and always believed him to be the opposite."

"I believe, precisely because he is not naive or stupid, that he sent his alarming email with the intention of getting it to the public domain in an attempt to draw public attention to the situation on his ship," Modly added.

"I apologize for any confusion this choice of words may have caused. I also want to apologize to directly to Captain Crozier, his family, and the entire crew of the Theodore Roosevelt for any pain my remarks may have caused."

Navy chief apologizes to aircraft carrier crew, former captain after leaked speech | TheHill

Good grief. What a weasel.

(And I say this as one who supports Capt. Crozier's action. I understand how good men, judicious men, can differ on this topic. I respect those who disagree with Crozier's action. But this Modly guy's an effin' weather vane. An Annapolis grad, too, from what I read. Jeez...)

 

[ExcitableBoy]

... AND HAVE YOU PACKED UP TO LEAVE THE U.S. YET?

This is the sort of thing that encourages dads like me to warn their kids away from the military. You are just cannon fodder for tin pot politicians and inept leadership. Don't join.

I have noticed that most of the "slams" against he military, and chain-of-command protocols, have come from those (at least according to their sign-in info) who have not served. A question to you: To whom do you think avails you of the life and freedoms which you enjoy and cherish in this country? Is it all up to us "poor, dumb, patriotic hicks" to provide you, of the entitled group of national lampreys, with the security necessary to float through a cushy existence?

To advise your children against joining the military... well, I can't use strong enough words to condemn this kind of attitude. Arguments against chain-of-command, and decisions made by superiors is understandable, and always debatable. But... discipline and adherence to those chain-of-command protocols is just as important within the officer cadre as it is within the enlisted ranks. Otherwise, there is nothing but chaos.

As a civilian in the workforce, if you didn't agree with, say, how a certain item at your factory was designed and produced, and you decided on your own to make changes without authorization from your supervisor or plant manager, what do you think the consequences would be? Maybe not a perfect analogy to Capt. Crozier's screw-up, but close enough. It is a breech of protocols.

The UCMJ, as with the U.S. Constitution, should not be subject to "creative" interpretation, regardless of the sympathies expressed by some.

Rant over. AR BT...............KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

 

[slicjoc1]

I gather from today's news conference Trump is going to have a review how this came to be. A Naval officer and Academy grad Crozier is no dummy. For him to takes steps he knew fully would end his career there is more we don't know. IMO he and the rear admiral aboard didn't agree on the matter and the admiral refused to forward Croziers request. The Navy Secretary jumped on it immediately and fired the Captain with little or no consultation and then flew to Guam to address the crew calling Captain Crozier stupid and näive. It didn't go over well with the crew. I believe Trump is going to have Mark Esper SECY of Defense look into it. Typical military SNAFU.

 

[sigp220.45]

Its called "falling on your sword". He knew what he was doing and did it anyway, I think out of concern for his troops.

I only made it to O-3 before the Air Force and I parted ways. I always felt my job was to pass the troops concerns up, and shield them from bad stuff coming down, but to always put their well-being before mine. Probably why I only lasted 8 years.

My gut tells me Crozier was technically wrong but morally right.

 

[Old Arkansawyer]

One of the reasons I did not make the navy a career was the rules and
regs that made no sense at all. Example saluting an inanimate object
such as an officer's car even though one of his teenage kids was driving,
felt sorry for the marine gate guards who had to do this.
I was privileged to serve while Admiral Zumwalt was CNO and was one
higher up who I felt had the common sailor's interest at heart. Yes
some of the old salts did not like the guy as they wanted sailors who
did not think for themselves, just blindly follow orders.
I agree with the other posters about most admirals were politically
or family connected and in order to get the rank had to Suck Up
to someone. I for one do not respect that behavior in a person.
I will add that the majority of my division officers and chiefs were
great guys who shared some of my feelings about the arcane rules
and regs and did not enforce them. I had greater respect for these
people. I guess they may have just, went along to get along, since
they had more at stake than me.