Carrying where "No Guns" signs are posted.

[TexasArmed]

Sure it is. From the Revised Code of Washington:





So if a store owner posts a sign saying, "No Guns" or words to that effect and you enter with your gun, you are complying with the conditions for access to said store. Consquently, you would have no defense to a charge of Criminal Trespass in the Second Degree.

The difference between your state and other states is that the other states specifically mention firearms and signs in their laws.

I was just at a gunshop today buying another pocket holster. Sign outside said guns must be unloaded but no 30.06 legal sign. I made my purchase, notified the clerk that I needed to test the pocket holster and did so. Their sign is not a legally enforceable sign.
Attempts, in Texas by a property owner, to unlawfully detain someone can result in that property owner being charged with kidnapping. The property owner may not decide what sign is legal as it is defined in the Texas statutes. If he tells the customer to leave, the customer must leave, but the property owner has no right to detain that person. On a previous occasion however, when they learned that I bought 4 handguns in the past two years, but not at their store, one of them told me that sign applies to people coming in to pawn their guns. Now in Texas, if he had wanted to he could ask me to leave, and I would have been required to do so. But that applies to anyone, gun or no handgun.

Attempting to restrain someone is like me blocking a vehicle in to a handicapped spot because they don't have a handicapped decal. I might want to do that, but doing so might result in me being charged with unlawful detainment.
Property owners, often have biting dogs, That is fine, as long as their dog stays on their property, but if I am in the street and the dog attempts to bite me I would shoot it. These same property owners do not want to pay 6 months of wound care, for my treatment, (diabetic), and the taxpayers of Texas would not appreceiate paying for it either, I want burden the VA with my treatment in such a case and I want pay it so its one or the other. Recently one told me that a good way to get killed is shooting someones dog. I told him someone shoots at me I don't usually miss and I shoot back. The right of that property owner ends where my leg begins if am in the street. The property owners rights do not extend to any part of my leg.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

Attempts, in Texas by a property owner, to unlawfully detain someone can result in that property owner being charged with kidnapping.

Well, that's fine because I'm not talking about unlawfully detaining anyone.

Anyway, everyday I thank the Lord Almighty that I don't live in Texas because open carry is no-no there and apparently local government can make up their own rules.

 

[TexasArmed]

Well, that's fine because I'm not talking about unlawfully detaining anyone.

Anyway, everyday I thank the Lord Almighty that I don't live in Texas because open carry is no-no there and apparently local government can make up their own rules.

I was not born in Texas, but I thank God every day that I live in Texas, where our state actually carrys out the sentences we have on the books. As for Open Carry, if they had it I would not open carry as I prefer the element of surprize.
I never want to live in another State myself, but occasionally travel to Oklahoma, Lousiana and Arkansas. Attempting to prevent someone from leaving a store based on a legal unenforcable sign, would be a problem for a business owner.
You can ask them to leave, but you can't legally detain them.

I also llke the State laws of Florida, have been there but have never lived there. Texas is unique, regarding laws that allow one to protect property at night I think. There are a lot of criminals who don't like Texas however, because they can't just run off with the loot here, as they can in some of the other states. Other significant advantages for property owners is the Texas Homestead Exemption. no other State comes close except maybe Florida. The SYG laws and deadly force provisions are about the same.

I don't know of any places in Texas that is a problem for CHL holders, as there are in some southern states where there are a few anti-gun mayors who try to harrass CHL holders. There used to be some problems when people were harrassed without permits for having a weapon unless they were traveling. That was fixed when the Castle Doctrine was extended to ones personal vehicle, so lots of people carry weapons in their vehicles who may or may not have a permit.

 

[keith44spl]

Well,
Anyway, everyday I thank the Lord Almighty that I don't live in Texas because open carry is no-no there and apparently local government can make up their own rules.

Yup, we're all purty proud that ya don't....


Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[elm_creek_smith]

The Post Office, Federal buildings, and schools are off-limits.

If you read the law concerning the Post Office you can't even have a gun in your car in their parking lot. In Oklahoma, government buildings where government business is conducted are off-limits to concealed or open carry (after 1 November 2012) by licensed civilians. The city hall building where I work is posted "Possession of Firearms Is Strictly Prohibited," but it is secured by armed security officers. I ignore the signs.

ECS

PS. I'm one of the security officers.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I just don't go into businesses where they have such signs. The hospital I use (when necessary) is posted, but they have armed guards, too.

ECS

 

[CrossRifles2008]

I was not born in Texas, but I thank God every day that I live in Texas, where our state actually carrys out the sentences we have on the books. As for Open Carry, if they had it I would not open carry as I prefer the element of surprize.

Agreed. I was born in the dictatorship of Massachusetts. I may not wear a 10 gallon hat, but after the army brought me here, and I changed my residence. I'm a proud Texan. Where I have the rights not the criminal.

 

[wbraswell]

I have read most of the posts in this thread. This has really been a great discussion, with varying points of view and state laws. After the 1st page or so, I thought Dave needed to chime in on this. I was glad when he did, and he certainly didn't disappoint. If you don't get caught and there is no evidence, then it didn't happen(or at least I didn't do it!) The only reason I wasn't born in Texas, is because, in Texarkana, back then, the hospital was in Arkansas. Now they've moved onto the Texas side, I wonder if I can get that changed?

 

[Capt Steve]

What about your local gun shop?

Interesting discussion no doubt but I have a question. Virtually every gun store I have ever been to has a sign on the door stating that ALL firearms must be unloaded and cased BEFORE entering. This isn't Target or Costco, we are talking your local gun shop. If you are legally carrying concealed do you comply? Given all the comments about merchants that do/don't have the right to restrict carry and the various political agendas associated with each side of the argument how do we reconcile the gun shops putting this restriction in place???

 

[cshoff]

Interesting discussion no doubt but I have a question. Virtually every gun store I have ever been to has a sign on the door stating that ALL firearms must be unloaded and cased BEFORE entering. This isn't Target or Costco, we are talking your local gun shop. If you are legally carrying concealed do you comply? Given all the comments about merchants that do/don't have the right to restrict carry and the various political agendas associated with each side of the argument how do we reconcile the gun shops putting this restriction in place???

Of the few LGS's I do business with, none of them are posted in that manner. That said, there are a couple with signs that read something like, "All firearms being brought in for repair, trade, or appraisal MUST be unloaded and cased. This does not apply to concealed firearms carried by CCW permit holders.". In fact, the Cabela's store in Hazelwood Missouri has a sign similar to that on the door.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

how do we reconcile the gun shops putting this restriction in place???

Gun shops do it out of a sense of self preservation. I've been in more than one gun shop where a couple guys will be talking and suddenly one of them say, "Ya think thets sumthin? Ya needz to see my new Stremheiser 380!" and out comes his Roscoe from under his shirt. Usually panic ensues and I do a low crawl out the door.

The sad reality is that many gun owners are morons and don't realize that they are morons.

 

[Capt Steve]

Gun shops do it out of a sense of self preservation. I've been in more than one gun shop where a couple guys will be talking and suddenly one of them say, "Ya think thets sumthin? Ya needz to see my new Stremheiser 380!" and out comes his Roscoe from under his shirt. Usually panic ensues and I do a low crawl out the door.

The sad reality is that many gun owners are morons and don't realize that they are morons.

I understand "why" they do it the question is do you comply at the gun store? Why or why not?

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Capt Steve,

If the gun store sign says "No Concealed Carry" or "No Loaded Concealed Carry," I don't go inside. The gun store I frequent most often has an indoor range and a sign that reads: "No Handling Loaded Guns in the Sales Area." I can live with that.

ECS
Captain, Armor
United States Army (Retired)

 

[Capt Steve]

Seems like no one wants to answer the question. The signs I am talking about, and I have seen them in half a dozen gun shops/indoor ranges from San Diego (Discount Gun Mart/indoor Range) to Tucson (Murphies Guns), state: "ALL Firearms must be unloaded and cased before entering" - no mention of concealed carry or any other disclaimers.

While I understand any number of reasons for the signs from morons to insurance issues it strikes me as incredibly hypocritical for a gun shop/range to implement one of the most onerous restrictions on carry we all encounter. When Target or Costco does it folks get up on their hind legs and start chest thumping about the second amendment. When the gun shops do it no one seems to care. What is the difference?

For the record I will enter a gun store with such a sign posted and comply with their wishes, I leave my gun secured in the truck. I have no concern for my safety while shopping there as every employee has a gun on their hip and presumably knows how and when to use it. I will not walk in to any other business that is posted no carry as my own often not so silent protest against their policy so in that respect I am not all that consistent either.

 

[tennisguy]

Gun Signs in SC

In South Carolina, the law specifically spells out what a sign must say/read, what size the sign must be, and where and how high the sign must be placed.

My CCW instructor said he has seen plenty of signs not comforming to the law and thus technically it should not be a violation to carry inside that business since they did not comply with the law with legal signage. But he also said it was up to you whether or not to take that next step and decide to carry inside. He said you might leave your gun secured in the car and go inside and tell them you will not shop their again until they reverse their policy and maybe even point out that their sign is not legal.

Criminals are not going to respect any sign prohibiting guns, whether the sign is legal or not. I don't see why any store wouldn't allow law abiding citizens to carry inside the store. I don't want to do anything stupid or dumb to have my carry permit taken away, so it's almost like an indictment of carry permit holders as someone to be feared instead of being an ordinary customer shopping in a store. Would these same stores put up a sign saying no sex offenders allowed inside our premises? Aren't those people dangerous too? Why would stores want bank robbers or any type of robbery convict in their stores? Maybe they should put up signs for those people too; they would be a danger. Maybe if stores could keep out all of the bad guys with signs, then we wouldn't need to carry inside their store. Perhaps that's a trade-off stores would consider?

Sorry...enough of the rant.

 

[CrossRifles2008]

As stated earlier in the thread. Texas has a requirement for the proper sign to restrict carry. A cheap old sing with a red cross over circle doesn't cut it. If its the wrong sign I ignore it. If you use the proper sign, I honor it, but I honor it by not going in and giving them my business. One of the main reasons I always refuse a invite to go to a bar is the 51%. I'll do my drinking at home.

 

[CigarGuy]

Seems like many are concerned about the size of the sign, as opposed to there being a sign to begin with?

 

[REDTAIL]

Concealed means Concealed Period.

 

[Vision Remodeling]

We all know those signs make the crimials say "****, they have a sign I guess I'll go rob and shoot someone else." So it must be safe inside.

concealed is concealed

 

[The Tourist]

Wisconsin has a similar provision--you have to leave an area if the owner asked you. The problem in my area is the posting of signs, especially in malls.

For example, one furniture store in our local mall permits CCW owers to carry, but they also have an entrance to the main promenade area of the mall. They post a sign on their door, only as a warning to those leaving their store area.

Same thing with the bookstore, but with a catch. They allow firearms, and have a separate entrance. But they do not post anywhere. My concern is that a clueless legal license holder could enter the side door, and the enter the promenade and never see a sign.

Since I only patronize those stores that permit firearms, I don't have an issue. It's the owner's loss of revenue, not mine.