gunnut2u
Member
Should you notify the officer if you are a ccw holder and a passenger in a car being stopped ? If he doesn't ask , do you say anything ?
CCW passenger
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cshoff
Member
In Missouri, you are not obligated by law to inform an officer of your CCW status when you are approached. That said, you cannot lie if you are asked by the officer or you could be subject to a fine at the minimum, and perhaps his gun pointed at you if he somehow gets "surprised".
As per RSMO 571.121:
Whether you inform the officer above and beyond the law is completely up to you. Whatever you do, I'd suggest you avoid statements like "I have a gun", or "I am armed". I generally recommend to my students that in the event they have to deal with a LEO in a traffic stop or some other such routine encounter, they simply inform the officer that they are a CCW permit holder and that they are currently legally carrying their concealed firearm. Most LEO's I know are very appreciative of you being up front with the information and it generally helps put their mind at ease. In fact, most of them won't even ask to see your firearm once you respectfully disclose your status.
LuddhaBuddha
Member
If he asks me for I.D. then I will show him my carry permit, other than that, no.
cmort666
Member
ANYBODY stopped for an OFFICIAL purpose while carrying in Ohio must notify.
You're asking the wrong people; you should be asking a lawyer licensed to practice in Missouri. That said, my advice is to obey the law, don't lie to a policeman, never tell him you have a gun (instead, tell him you have a license to carry, and offer to show it to him), and never volunteer information, unless he orders you out of the car and is about to search you, and then, remember, don't tell him you have a gun but tell him you have a license to carry. Most policeman, probably the vast majority, have plenty of common sense, probably much more than the general population. These are not going to be a problem unless you do something really stupid. A few are hoplophobes or nervous rookies, and these are the ones you should be concerned about. In my opinion, I have given you the best advice on how to deal with them.
cshoff
Member
The law is very clear on this (see above). Asking an attorney will do nothing to change that.
The advice you have given is pretty much the same advice I gave, and the same advice I give my students. IMO, it's better to respectfully, and in a non-alarming manner, inform the officer that you have a legally obtained CCW permit, and that you are currently carrying your concealed firearm. That is much better than somehow giving the officer a "surprise" and ending up with his service pistol pointed at you.
scooter123
Member
I really don't think that legality has any real bearing on this question. For me, informing is simple common sense, common courtesy, and should done in the interest of your own safety.
Police today are trained to assume that ANYONE they stop may be carrying a firearm. So, right off the bat they will be looking for any clues that any individual in the vehicle is carrying. They are also trained to observe for handedness in the people they encounter, because it provides guidance on where to look for a concealed weapon. So, they are not only trained to look, they are trained to use clues you may provide as to where to look most closely. If they spot that weapon, you will be looking down the barrel of a gun. So, in terms of self preservation it really is in your best interest to notify no matter what your states laws require.
Then there is the simple matter of common courtesy. I've been stopped for speeding several times since I started riving in 1971. What I have found out is that by being pleasent, courteous, and honest, is that many times the result of that stop has been a simple warning to slow down. Currently my driving record has been citation free since 1987, what I pay for car insurance would make many drivers cry foul.
So, if I am ever stopped while carrying, driver or passenger, I will not only inform and pass over my ID, I will also ask the officer how he wants to proceed and follow his instructions to the letter. Police have a difficult job and catch a lot of abuse day after day. If I can make his day go a bit smoother by being cooperateive and courtious, I've found that the reward is usually a simple warning instead of a citation that was well deserved.
Police today are trained to assume that ANYONE they stop may be carrying a firearm. So, right off the bat they will be looking for any clues that any individual in the vehicle is carrying. They are also trained to observe for handedness in the people they encounter, because it provides guidance on where to look for a concealed weapon. So, they are not only trained to look, they are trained to use clues you may provide as to where to look most closely. If they spot that weapon, you will be looking down the barrel of a gun. So, in terms of self preservation it really is in your best interest to notify no matter what your states laws require.
Then there is the simple matter of common courtesy. I've been stopped for speeding several times since I started riving in 1971. What I have found out is that by being pleasent, courteous, and honest, is that many times the result of that stop has been a simple warning to slow down. Currently my driving record has been citation free since 1987, what I pay for car insurance would make many drivers cry foul.
So, if I am ever stopped while carrying, driver or passenger, I will not only inform and pass over my ID, I will also ask the officer how he wants to proceed and follow his instructions to the letter. Police have a difficult job and catch a lot of abuse day after day. If I can make his day go a bit smoother by being cooperateive and courtious, I've found that the reward is usually a simple warning instead of a citation that was well deserved.
This is some of the best advice I have heard in a long time. I guarantee this advice won't be wrong in ANY state in which you have a permit to carry.
BC
cmort666
Member
It didn't work that way for a guy from North Carolina stopped in Fairfax County, Virginia. After informing when he didn't have to, he was falsely arrested on a variety of ludicrous charges, including "carrying a concealed weapon (with a credential recognized by VA)", "having hollowpoints" and "crossing state lines with a loaded weapon". Even after a magistrate released him and made an ON THE RECORD statement that he'd been falsely arrested, they tried to unlawfully keep his firearm.
I believe he's currently suing the officers, the department and the county.
Do what's REQUIRED by law. Nothing more, nothing less.
mrwildroot
Member
I would like to read about this....
Would you happen to have an URL for this incident?
NC CHL is honored in VA.
The hollow points should not be an issue in VA...NJ is a different story...
Did you know that in VA, you can be in a bar serving liquor, but you MUST OPEN CARRY?
mrwildroot
Yeah, I'd like to see a citation on that one as well. VCDL and OCDO are very active in Fairfax county, and the majority of FCPD officers become very professional and educated regarding gun rights as a result.
cmort666
Member
I saw it on the VCDL website, but couldn't find it the last time I looked for it. I believe it's been referenced on OCDO as well. Let me see what I can do.
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cmort666
Member
Strange, I never could find it again poking around on the VCDL website, but easily found it through an external Google search:
http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=2261027
cmort666
Member
As I recall, according to the person in question, Fairfax cops claimed they couldn't verify his CHL. But the magistrate called the number printed on the back of it in his and the cops' presence and verified it in minutes.
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mrwildroot
Member
Very odd...
NC CHL are all the same...No photo ID tho...NC DL(or State issued ID) required to accompany CHL at all times.
Must have been a rookie...
And the mention of Hollow Point ammo...what's that about???
Mrwildroot
NC CHL are all the same...No photo ID tho...NC DL(or State issued ID) required to accompany CHL at all times.
Must have been a rookie...
And the mention of Hollow Point ammo...what's that about???
Mrwildroot
45Wheelgun
Member
Thanks for the link. Since the story is a year old, has anyone seen any followup?
*Klutch*
Member
This is almost word for word what I would have written except for the driving in 71 since I was born in 73
cmort666
Member
I might post a few inquiries shortly.
Update: I've posted a couple of inquiries elsewhere. Nothing definite yet. The guy may have elected not to file suit... or not. Hopefully a guy from VCDL will provide an answer today.
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mrwildroot
Member
A real shame that the LEOs involved in this fiasco weren't properly trained, educated or supervised in regards to this citizens rights...Dropping the weapon is unforgivable....
MW
