First, nobody said you'd be a jerk, just irresponsible. In the latter scenario just hope the pickpocket doesn't take your weapon also. Then you may have real problems to deal withSo if you purposely leave your underage kids at home while you go drink - you're being negligent? But if you forget or inadvertently dropped your wallet at home - it's being irresponsible?
Let me put it in another scenario for you in hopes of you understanding of what I am trying to say..
Lets suppose you are carrying your handgun and your permit but managed to drop your wallet while out shopping (or maybe even got pick-pocketed) and on the way home you get pulled over for having a license plate bulb being burnt out. As you reach your wallet you realize it is gone! Have you suddenly gone from being a law abiding citizen to an irresponsible jerk?
CCW with no LTC
- Thread starter hogwylde
- Start date
So if you purposely leave your underage kids at home while you go drink - you're being negligent? But if you forget or inadvertently dropped your wallet at home - it's being irresponsible?
Let me put it in another scenario for you in hopes of you understanding of what I am trying to say..
Lets suppose you are carrying your handgun and your permit but managed to drop your wallet while out shopping (or maybe even got pick-pocketed) and on the way home you get pulled over for having a license plate bulb being burnt out. As you reach your wallet you realize it is gone! Have you suddenly gone from being a law abiding citizen to an irresponsible jerk?
You are relying on a cop just trying to do his job. He may or may not see the gray area that you want him to see. His world is literally black and white. And when it comes to a firearm, gray areas don't exist. You would probably be taken to jail and things would be sorted out later.
Think about it. Driving a vehicle, in possession of a firearm, and no ID. What do you expect a cop to do?
SgtLumpy
Member
Yes
Yes
What's the problem with checking for your wallet as you get into your car? Don't you check other things as well? Ammunition in your gun? Gun in the holster? Or did they fall out in the couch cushions at home before you left the house too?
Let's see...I'm going to drive my car somewhere. Do I have my driver's license?
Let's see...I'm going to carry my weapon and a CCW is required in my area. Do I have my CCW permit?
Let's see...I'm going to jump out of an airplane. Do I have my parachute?
Nobody has called you a jerk. If you're going to carry a weapon, you have a higher level of responsibility than someone who does not carry. Rise to the occasion. Or don't.
Sgt Lumpy
Rpg
Member
^^^^^^^^^
What Doug said!!
All he forgot to mention is the thousands of dollars you will give your new best friend : your attorney.
G.T. Smith
US Veteran
Here in Missouri the CCW license has the same number as your drivers license. My CCW is on a non-drivers photo ID. I went through a sobriety checkpoint once and the officer saw the non-drivers ID and said,"what's that other license, a CCW"? I said that it was, then about that time my scanner went off and was picking up his department. He asked me how I got the frequency of his department, and I told him I got it on the internet. I asked him if it was OK to have my scanner in the rig and he just told me to go on. Never asked me if I was carrying or not. I don't see why they could not tell you have a CCW by running your plates or DL. I think a lot of the time it is your attitude that makes the difference. Cops are probably relieved to approach a courteous person on a traffic stop of any kind. Helluva job they got there.
Peace,
Gordon
Peace,
Gordon
OP
hogwylde
US Veteran
I absolutely agree with you 100%....which brings me back to my original question in Post #1! What is the fine or penalty?
OP
hogwylde
US Veteran
Preferably MA but if one could at least give an example of what happened elsewhere....it may at least just serve as an eye opener or topic of conversation.
oberon
Member
I have had a roadside chat with the 5-0 on a couple occaisions.
Once was young Wyatt Earp attempting to do a job he was in no way prepared for, and on other occaisions the LEO only asked if I was armed and did I have a permit. Only interested in if there were any warrants, and was any booze on board. This state is generally populated with armed citizens. Way higher per capita than other states. It is considered a normal condition.
Once was young Wyatt Earp attempting to do a job he was in no way prepared for, and on other occaisions the LEO only asked if I was armed and did I have a permit. Only interested in if there were any warrants, and was any booze on board. This state is generally populated with armed citizens. Way higher per capita than other states. It is considered a normal condition.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
When I was a guard checking in contractors to badge them to enter our factory I was amazed what percentage of people "claimed" they left their wallets and driver licenses at home!
Protected One
Member
If you really want to know, call the state police (or your states equivalent) and ask for the person most knowledgable on firearm laws. Done.
Doug M.
Member
Given the attitude about LTCs and firearms in general there, the penalty is likely only part of the problem. I could see administrative action that really sucks. If you use appropriate care, it will never be an issue.
Kensterfly
Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2013
- Messages
- 232
- Reaction score
- 187
The biggest culprit in thick wallets is not money, but all the other "****" men tend to keep in them. Average wallet is about 1" thick.
I just counted. I have 15 plastic items in my wallet (credit cards, DL, CHL, insurance and various other ID cards.) My wallet opens up to four pockets, each pocket can hold up to six cards. When closed, my wallet currently measures just slightly less than 1/2 inch and that includes, at the moment, 14 bills of various denominations. Closed, in pocket formation, it measures 3.5 inches x 4.5 inches.
You cannot tell that it is in your hip pocket.
wittmeba
US Veteran
I can't answer the question but this begs clarification.
This information is in direct opposition to the guy in Maryland traveling with his family to Florida and was pulled over. If I recall correctly the indicated they ran his plates and knew he could carry a gun - had a CWP. They make the family get out of the car, searched his vehicle, luggage and detained for about 2 1/2 hours.
He did not have his gun with him...but they knew.
So one LEO says they have no way to tell (the OP's case) and another pulls a guy over because he knows he has a CWP.
Something doesn't sound right here.
TexasArmed
Member
One of my brothers in Texas law enforcement told me several years ago, that they do not know you have a CHL till they run the DL#, not when they run the tags, but I listen to a scanner
and it sounds to me like they know a lot from just the plates.
I wonder if that has changed.
and it sounds to me like they know a lot from just the plates.
I wonder if that has changed.
wittmeba
US Veteran
Then my question becomes can LE get a name for a licensed driver to run from a license plate? How else would the Maryland LE know about the driver? This case made TV NEWS here in Roanoke/New Castle Va area.
Doug M.
Member
It depends on the way the state of registration enters the license plate info into their system. Some require that the registered owner(s) provide DL #s on the registration forms/renewals, and then that is associated with the plate.
The next variable is the software. In some states, the software automatically provides the DL info back when the plate is run. Illinois did this even in the mid80s. I watched mine run by a dispatcher as an experiment, and it took less than 10 seconds from entry to return. The return showed the car and its data (make, model, color, etc); the address to which it was a registered (A PO Box, of course, for safety reasons), and the registered owners (my wife and I). The software having picked up the DL#s, ran both, and showed any moving violations in the last year (none), wants, and DL stops (suspended or revoked, of course also none), along with all my endorsements (A, T, X, M, glasses restriction, etc).
When I got to Washington, the software here (ironically called "ACCESS") was flat out primitive/not set up that well, a real safety hazard for officers. The next interface issue is that when running a plate from State A in State B, the software involved (both state and NCIC) may not pick up the data from state A in a useful manner, and of course dispatchers and officers have a hard time knowing the nature of the responses from 49 other states, plus Canadian provinces and sometimes Mexico.
The entry of other stuff, such as a carry license, is a matter of state process and software design. Again, of course, how State B accesses the stuff from State A will vary and may not be familiar to officers and dispatchers. My recollection is that here, for example, the CPL data is not associated with the registration, but when our new software was put on the car computers, we could press another button for various other searches, and the data would populate the right fields for the search associated with that particular button. Some would not auto-populate, and we had to cut and paste just like on your home computer.
Hope that helps.
The next variable is the software. In some states, the software automatically provides the DL info back when the plate is run. Illinois did this even in the mid80s. I watched mine run by a dispatcher as an experiment, and it took less than 10 seconds from entry to return. The return showed the car and its data (make, model, color, etc); the address to which it was a registered (A PO Box, of course, for safety reasons), and the registered owners (my wife and I). The software having picked up the DL#s, ran both, and showed any moving violations in the last year (none), wants, and DL stops (suspended or revoked, of course also none), along with all my endorsements (A, T, X, M, glasses restriction, etc).
When I got to Washington, the software here (ironically called "ACCESS") was flat out primitive/not set up that well, a real safety hazard for officers. The next interface issue is that when running a plate from State A in State B, the software involved (both state and NCIC) may not pick up the data from state A in a useful manner, and of course dispatchers and officers have a hard time knowing the nature of the responses from 49 other states, plus Canadian provinces and sometimes Mexico.
The entry of other stuff, such as a carry license, is a matter of state process and software design. Again, of course, how State B accesses the stuff from State A will vary and may not be familiar to officers and dispatchers. My recollection is that here, for example, the CPL data is not associated with the registration, but when our new software was put on the car computers, we could press another button for various other searches, and the data would populate the right fields for the search associated with that particular button. Some would not auto-populate, and we had to cut and paste just like on your home computer.
Hope that helps.
dougb1946
Member
Minnesota, known for Minnesota nice, allows carry without a permit-concealed or open-in certain instances. Be aware that the Minneapolis PD operate under their own rules. Carrying with a permit may get you hit with sticks and spread and cuffed.
Last edited:
This has nothing to do with the original post which regarded carrying concealed in a vehicle without your permit.
