Chambered or not?

[dsink]

Most of the striker fired guns are not fully cocked. They are at half cock and when you pull the trigger, it finishes pulling the striker back and releases it.
Most striker fired handguns though, have a lighter than normal trigger compared to SA/DA handguns and this is the biggest reason for AD's.

 

[DR505]

I always carry chambered. But I have actually trained in how to chamber a round one handed. It is not that difficult. You never know when one arm will be rendered useless.

 

[Capt.Jim]

Any auto I carry is always with loaded chamber. The event with Zimmerman illustrates that one may not have time or opportunity. If you are knocked down with someone on top of you, doing their best to beat you severely, you better not HAVE to chamber a round. You need it to go right now.

True, but aren't we supposed NOT to find ourselves in that situation by being observant and all in the first place....
I mean if you are already knocked down and someone on top of you, you're already in deep doo doo...
In Zimmerman case GZ was extremely lucky that Treyvon was only using his fists and he obviously wasn't that good.
If Treyvon was using a knife or a gun Zimmerman was long gone...

I don't know why some people think ALL bad situations they are going to find themselves in, a one on one situation with a big surprise where mili-seconds will change everything while most self defense incidents happens as:

- After an escalating verbal confrontation,
- At a residence against an intruder,
- Saving a third party ( where a CCW saves the day while a crazy boyfriend stabbing his girlfriend kind of incident )
- In a public area with many other people around like the Internet cafe where the older gentleman shot two BGs,
- Places like movie theaters, shopping malls where people got caught in a mass shooting,
where all situations above will give ample time to draw and rack if one is carrying a semi-auto with an empty chamber.

I am sorry but if you find yourself in a situation where you need to draw, yet you believe you may not have the split second time to rack your gun; Well, either you're in a situation where drawing a gun from concealment is the wrong move or you're already screwed!

Let's play devil's advocate; What do you think would've happen if GZ drew his gun (with an empty chamber) push TM's chest and yell "back off or I'll shoot"!
Who could say with 100% certainty that after seeing the gun TM wouldn't going to stop his attack by saying "Oh man" and back off... He could've been still alive and GZ end up not ruining his life!

Those of you who believe Massad Ayoob is a gun-guru; remember his incident at parking lot against 2 guys who were clearly about to attack him?
Remember what he did?
He showed his gun to them and that was enough for thugs to run away...

Who knows?

 

[Maze 686]

True, but aren't we supposed NOT to find ourselves in that situation by being observant and all in the first place....
I mean if you are already knocked down and someone on top of you, you're already in deep doo doo...
In Zimmerman case GZ was extremely lucky that Treyvon was only using his fists and he obviously wasn't that good.
If Treyvon was using a knife or a gun Zimmerman was long gone...

I don't know why some people think ALL bad situations they are going to find themselves in, a one on one situation with a big surprise where mili-seconds will change everything while most self defense incidents happens as:

- After an escalating verbal confrontation,
- At a residence against an intruder,
- Saving a third party ( where a CCW saves the day while a crazy boyfriend stabbing his girlfriend kind of incident )
- In a public area with many other people around like the Internet cafe where the older gentleman shot two BGs,
- Places like movie theaters, shopping malls where people got caught in a mass shooting,
where all situations above will give ample time to draw and rack if one is carrying a semi-auto with an empty chamber.

I am sorry but if you find yourself in a situation where you need to draw, yet you believe you may not have the split second time to rack your gun; Well, either you're in a situation where drawing a gun from concealment is the wrong move or you're already screwed!

Let's play devil's advocate; What do you think would've happen if GZ drew his gun (with an empty chamber) push TM's chest and yell "back off or I'll shoot"!
Who could say with 100% certainty that after seeing the gun TM wouldn't going to stop his attack by saying "Oh man" and back off... He could've been still alive and GZ end up not ruining his life!

Those of you who believe Massad Ayoob is a gun-guru; remember his incident at parking lot against 2 guys who were clearly about to attack him?
Remember what he did?
He showed his gun to them and that was enough for thugs to run away...

Who knows?

I can think of dozens of situations where you could not draw and rack your slide.

Your a store clerk and guy at counter draws a weapon and tells you to get on your knees to be executed.

How about holding your child in your arms as someone decides to start shooting at you.

How about someone smashes your car window and reaches to pull you out while your stuck in traffic.

How about the guy carrying a bag of diamonds and is confronted by two guys with guns.
I could go on and on. These are all true scanarios by the way.

One of my former Sgts. had to shoot it out with three guys as they were beating on him after they confronted him in a bar. He tried to leave an hour after they were thrown out of the place. They ambushed him outside, thankfully he carried like he was taught, chambered. He shot two of them.

You will not be able to determin when or where you may need your weapon and if you think you can, then why be there in the first place.

 

[Maze 686]

And every striker fired weapon needs the trigger pressed to fire a round. The pressing of the trigger cocks and releases the striker making it just as safe as any double action revolver.

If the trigger cocked the striker you could keep pulling the trigger and the gun would keep snapping (what you people now call second strike capabilities). Since the slide has to work to cock the gun the gun is cocked which is the same as carrying an external hammer gun cocked. When I read about a gun going off (ND or AD) it is usually a striker fired gun or external hammer gun that is being carried cocked (cocked and locked). That leads me to believe that it is not safe to carry a striker fired gun with one in the barrel or that people that carry that way are not safe. Larry

The slide does not cock the striker, the trigger does. The slide operating under recoil ejects and chambers a new round of ammunition and sets the striker back into position of rest. The resetting of the trigger places the striker back into position with tension. There is no hammer to cock internally or externally.

You may have read about NDs because the striker fired guns are so abundent.

 

[redsox617]

since the cops are rarely there when the bad guy is- I wouldnt give ya 2 cents for those who say " its your choice" If it isnt Hot its a doorstop. Are these posters gonna pay your bills when your dead? dont be a fool, you presumably have a CCW for protection- so get serious, always hot- this is no game, and all the cops and instructers in the world womt be there when you need your weapon. These Gurus give me gas

 

[Capt.Jim]

I can think of dozens of situations where you could not draw and rack your slide.

Your a store clerk and guy at counter draws a weapon and tells you to get on your knees to be executed.

How about holding your child in your arms as someone decides to start shooting at you.

How about someone smashes your car window and reaches to pull you out while your stuck in traffic.

How about the guy carrying a bag of diamonds and is confronted by two guys with guns.
I could go on and on. These are all true scanarios by the way.

One of my former Sgts. had to shoot it out with three guys as they were beating on him after they confronted him in a bar. He tried to leave an hour after they were thrown out of the place. They ambushed him outside, thankfully he carried like he was taught, chambered. He shot two of them.

You will not be able to determin when or where you may need your weapon and if you think you can, then why be there in the first place.

Seriously?

You think if someone already started shooting at you while you holding your child in your arms, then you'll drop your child and draw from concealment and after all these you think you'll still have a chance because you have one in the chamber?

Either you must be the fastest human being on earth or person shooting at you must be blind in order you to have a chance in that situation.

You proved my point...
Remember what I said in my post?

I mentioned that if you believe there won't be enough time for you to draw and rack that means one of two conditions...
a) Either it is wrong time to draw (retreat or comply to wait for an opening to draw safely)
or ,
b)you're already screwed.

In that situation you're already screwed.

A diamond courier who's on duty with a bag of diamonds is not a typical civilian out there having a sandwich at a Subway...
We're not talking about people with that kind of duties on a daily basis.
He is a guy on a high risk, dangerous mission!

But imagine yourself sitting in a church, office, movie theater,restaurant, campground and you hear a few loud bangs and heard people running towards you saying there's a crazy gunman executing people. Do you believe it'll make a difference if you have one in the chamber or not?

You're taking your kid to school in your car and you hear a bang in front of the school, kids are screaming, parents are scrambling, you think you loose advantage if you have to rack? Really...

If there's a barrel already at your temple by all means don't try to draw...No matter what you have in that chamber.

I don't know if your Sgt was allowed to carry in a BAR legally where ALCOHOL is primarily served item but it is ILLEGAL for us civilians to carry there...
But it is common sense if you involved in a bar brawl and some people being thrown out after challenging you at a place go to bathroom and put one in the chamber for the next hr or so...
We are talking about as a semi-auto handgun carrying practice for some people...

 

[shouldazagged]

The more of this kind of threads I read, the more content I am that I carry a DAO revolver. LOTS fewer what-ifs to mull over and debate. And, it seems, less need for concern about safe carry. (I didn't say "no need", I said "less need".) I just don't seem as likely to overthink now as I did when I carried autoloaders.

 

[checkmyswag]

Chambered. Safety on. In good holster. You may get notified you are in gun fight by being shot or having to fight someone off or protect someone with one hand. Also...something most of us should do more is practice drawing with our weak hand and shooting with our weak hand.

 

[venomballistics]

The more of this kind of threads I read, the more content I am that I carry a DAO revolver. LOTS fewer what-ifs to mull over and debate. And, it seems, less need for concern about safe carry. (I didn't say "no need", I said "less need".) I just don't seem as likely to overthink now as I did when I carried autoloaders.

the more I read these the more I see a pattern.
to quote myself in post #6

we've covered this topic with a goodly amount of heat months ago.
the result ... some hard feelings and a strong leaning toward chambered.

I was hoping that statement would tame some of the debate.
Perhaps it did, but it couldn't hold off the heat forever

 

[photoman]

Wow. Seven pages later and people still haven't figured out there is no absolute right answer to the question.

 

[tops]

Wow. Seven pages later and people still haven't figured out there is no absolute right answer to the question.

I'm absolutely right. Never been wrong but once and that was when I though I was wrong but I wasn't. Larry

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
I worked with an Investigator who didn't feel safe with a chambered round. During a ""Civil Unrest" He was jumped and taken to the ground by two "Unset" citizens. While tussling on the ground with the two citizens He was able to get His strong hand free and draw His weapon. However he was unable to fire it as "No Round" in the chamber. The arrival of other Officers saved His bacon. LESSON LEARNED !
One other Officer during my career did not carry with a chambered round. He was known as a "Dumb ***".

 

[66Park]

I can't believe there is this much discord over this. Do what you want, but a gun without a round in the chamber is not a loaded gun. It takes time to load it, and that is time in which you could be killed. If you don't feel safe with a round in the chamber, I suggest you look at another gun, perhaps a revolver. If I were in a position where I, for instance, had to pocket carry a Glock for some reason (an example given early in the thread), then I would have to assess which was the greater danger - accidental discharge or taking the time to rack the slide. My solution in that case would be to carry a J frame in my pocket. Just pull it out and you're good to go. To me, carrying an unloaded gun into a possible gunfight is a real liability, but go ahead and do what you want.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Do what you want, but a gun without a round in the chamber is not a loaded gun.

Practically this is true. Legally, this is false in a lot of places. A loaded magazine inserted or partially inserted is all it takes in VA. I realize that was not your point, but added this to educate the masses.

It has become my opinion that the strongest advocates for the round not being chambered are the people less comfortable/competent with firearms and therefore least desirable to have carrying firearms in public. Or they have malicious intent toward the responsible gun owner. A trained and familiarized person would never pose this question. The answer here should be, "Thanks for the question, please go and take a concealed carry class and it will be properly answered and explained for you." It saves our sanity, possibly their "bacon," and takes the forum away from the malicious.

So everybody agrees that this thread has turned into a short bus chess tournament? Good, let's talk about something else.

 

[Smoke]

This topic comes up all the time and it is a no win for either side. If I carry with a round in the chamber someone is going to say I’m an unsafe gun owner, if I carry with an empty chamber someone will say I’m an unprepared gun owner and then the urinating contest begins.

So here’s the deal, I carry my pistol with a round in the chamber because not doing so (IMO) causes far more problems than it solves.

Whether or not you (generic) choose to carry with a round in the chamber isn’t going to affect my life even a little bit, so you do your own research, conduct your own risk assessment, make your own decision and you live with the consequences good or bad of that decision.

Good day

 

[S&W HE]

Condition One for all my guns!

 

[shouldazagged]

Do you suppose we could consider this thread to have gone around in circles long enough?

 

[venomballistics]

Do you suppose we could consider this thread to have gone around in circles long enough?

thats one way of looking at it.
Another way is to embrace the suck and ride its merrygoround for a few thousand more revolutions, because it'll only be reincarnated next week if it sinks off of page one anyhow

 

[mmracing]

Chambered... don't even have a safety and if I did I wouldn't use it.