Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)

[richardw]

At 75 my arthritis in both hands is getting worse. My severely damaged and unrepairable right rotator cuff is diminishing my right arm strength in a troubling way. I carry a Ruger Lc9s because it is light and my rotator cuff can handle the weight without my arm becoming unstable.

I practice shooting two days a week with my Ruger. I shoot about 50 rounds each time to assure I can hit my selected target. But lately I have been having increased pain in my right hand. It has a deteriorating base thumb knuckle just like my left hand did some years ago. Today, I cannot get a reliable, steady grip on a gun with my left hand. My right thumb is headed in that direction. No way to stop it. It just is a fact,of old age.

Today my arthritis/hand specialist who carries a .40 and knows I carry and shoot regularly advised me to stop the use of my 9mm. He says the recoil is putting pressure on the base thumb joint, and all that is doing is aggravating the arthritis causing more deterioration to the joint. He suggested going to .380 at maximum or just stopping target shooting. But I decided to take a different course.

A couple months ago I bought a M&P 22 Compact. While I took it to the range every week I found a Bushnell 22 caliber bullet trap at a gun show for $30.00. I set it up in my basement with a good exhaust fan in a window. Now I shoot it in the basement. Because of its nearly non existent recoil it does not irritate my thumb. I have gotten more accurate with it than with my Lc9s. Generally I shoot a 22LR group of five rounds into a 1.5 inch cluster at 25 feet. I can do that in about four seconds. So that started me thinking.

I had done some research on the self defense lethality of the 22LR from a handgun. Turns out it is more lethal than most people think. Theo reason is the ability to lshoot a 1.5 inch group
into a vital spot of the body aa like the thorax or head, and do it in less than five seconds.

So I have decided to preserve the thumb and adopt the 22 Compact for EDC. My research also indicated that the best ammo was the CCI Mini Mag HP. At brassfetcher.com there is a good test of 22LR HP expansion. The Mini Mag was second only to a Winchester Super X HP. Problem was that there are many reported incidents of failures of the Winchester rounds and none of the CCI Mini Mag HPs. So I have a new EDC combo. The 22C and Mini Mags. It is a gun my impaired rotator cuff can accommodate and my thumb can work with. Life moves on but not always the way envisioned it. So keeping highly precise accuracy under duress is my new challenge.

 

[noshow]

Good for you!

And thanks for posting! I am 74 and my right rotator cuff is inflamed most of the time. Being a revolver guy who does not EDC, my night stand gun has been a S&W Mod 10(HB) loaded with +P HPs for 40 years. Just raising it to line of sight causes extreme discomfort in my upper arm. You just inspired me to replace it with my S&W J frame 22LR kit gun loaded with Mini Mag HPs. Getting old has it's downside, but it sure beats the alternative!


PS: Aleve(blue pill) helps the best in relieving the pain from inflamation

 

[silversnake]

.22 LR isn't perfect but there's not many criminals who will shrug off several well-placed .22s. If I end up limited by age or injury I would carry a .22 myself, I think it would suffice for most confrontations.

 

[BlackTalonJHP]

I've carried a Beretta 21A in .22lr and a Ruger LCR9mm revolver with very light 147gr handloads and the recoil is minimal. Also the Glock 42 .380 is pretty mild in my experience.

That said my M&P 22 compact is about 97% because sometimes it fails to pick up a cartridge from time to time. It does have an extractor though, which I wish the Beretta 21A had.

 

[BE Mike]

I'd personally rather carry a j frame loaded with wadcutters than any .22 LR. There is a difference between lethality and stopping power. I understand your having to adapt to your limitations. We all are getting there. Good luck!

 

[Ray1970]

I would never argue with someone about their choice of caliber and I fully understand that sometimes physical factors can play a major role in things. However, I did want to toss out the main problem that I would have relying on a 22LR for self defense. My main issue is with ignition reliability in a rim fire cartridge. I'm sure we've all been at the range having fun going through a large box of 22's. Inevitably, a few of those rounds just won't fire- not even after several attempts. I just wouldn't trust that the round I might have to fire to save my life wouldn't be one of those "duds".

I will add that if carrying something chambered in 22LR was my only option then I think I would definitely carry a revolver. If that first round doesn't fire, at least a quick second pull of the trigger gets me a fresh round.

 

[snubbyfan]

It rumored that Ruger's gonna come out with an LC380s.
If they actually do, it might be worth looking into.

 

[M29since14]

Sorry to learn of your difficulties. I do think your approach is good. You'll probably never need it anyway, but if you do, your ability and confidence in your 22 should get you by.

 

[haywood]

Your better armed than most of the people around you. They don't carry at all. I see where you are at. I'm just starting the jorney. Had to quit 357 but can still handle 38s.

 

[Kevin J.]

Have you tried .22 mags ? Little more firepower and not much more recoil. I believe there are several nice revolvers available in .22 mag.

 

[AR_Black]

Better a .22 in the hand, than a 9MM at home, when you need it.

Next time you go gun "window shopping", check out one of the Beretta .22 tip up pistols. I think Taurus makes one too.


Baby Berettas: A tale of tip up barrels - Guns.com


Beretta Model 21 22LR Pistol Review & Disassembly - YouTube

 

[sigp220.45]

I think you've made an excellent choice!

 

[tops]

I have two .22LR High Standard Sentinels stuck back for my "geezer" guns. One is 4 in. sq. butt and the other is 2 in.(?) with a round butt. I have quit loading the .44M to the max. and sometimes the .45ACP and .357M hurts to shoot. I still think 9 .22s would be like a hornets nest and nobody can stand that. Larry

 

[Iggy]

I've killed an awful lot of stuff with a .22LR.. I don't think a BG getting hit with a hail storm of .22 is gonna want to play very long.

 

[357-RevolverGuy]

Nothing wrong with that. I've often been tempted to carry a Ruger Standard or Mark II with 4" barrel. It's an accurate shooter that has a lighter trigger than your M&P. Easy to hold and very light recoil when shooting. With the right ammo it could be a force to reckon with, but I've never been able to find anyone who would make an IWB holster for it.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Hi Richard W:

I also suffer from arthritis in my hands and wrists, and I need to have surgery on my right hand due to arthritis in my thumb. I typically carry .38 Special revolvers now as my hand strength and manual dexterity is so poor that I have trouble manipulating the slide on semiautos. On days when my arthritis is really bad, I carry my 432PD chambered in .32 H&R Magnum. I also recently added a Beretta Tomcat chambered in .32ACP that will be for my daughter once she acquires her LTC. She is petite, and has poor hand strength.

As BlackTalonJHP mentioned in his post (#11), the Beretta Tomcat has the tip up barrel that means you don't have to cycle the slide to load and unload the piece. I am not questioning or challenging your choice of using .22LR pistols for your EDC, but just offering an opinion, and hopefully another option.

Best of luck to you, and thank you for your service to our country.

Regards,

Dave

PS - sorry, I should have identified the handguns in my photos. 1st photo: CZ-70 in .32ACP (left), Seecamp in .32ACP (center), S&W 432PD in .32 H&R Magnum (right). 2nd (middle) photo: Beretta Tomcat in .32ACP (left), Seecamp (top), CZ-70 (right). 3rd photo: CZ-70 (left), Seecamp (top), Beretta Tomcat with barrel tipped up (right).

Regards,

Dave

 

[Whitwabit]

shoot the 22 but carry the Lc9s .. by shooting the 22 you will stay proficient but carrying the 9mm you will keep the stopping power you might need ..

Doing this won't hurt your thump by shooting the 22 ..

 

[cgt4570]

Rule #1 of a gunfight: Have a gun!
Beyond that, carry what you are able to shoot well.

 

[robertrwalsh]

As that great student of the human condition, Dirty Harry, once remarked, A MANS GOT TO KNOW HIS LIMITATIONS. If you can hit with the .22 and you are cognizant of it's limitations, it is far better than throwing rocks. If I recall correctly the principle body guard of a recent Mexican president carried a .22.

 

[Buford57]

Means absolutely nothing statistically, but in my years on the job I saw 2 shootings in which the shootee dropped immediately and never moved: a .45 ACP (ball) between the eyes and a .22 LR HP to the chest. Then there was the truly hyped individual who took 5 .357 Mags to the chest and nearly outran the pursuing officer.

As someone said: have a gun. I truly applaud your commitment to shooting twice weekly. Follow your doctor's advice and be safe.

 

[spad124]

I think you've made a good sound reasoned decision. I'd rather carry a pistol and cartridge I know I can shoot without the risk of worrying about my own physical condition than a combination that only deteriorates my condition.

The fact that the M&P pistols are very ergonomic and spread out the recoil in your hand must also help. I've had very few misfires with Mini Mags in my M&P 22 FS. My M&P seems to prefer hotter ammo anyway

 

[white cloud]

I believe you are on the right track with your thinking.

Messing with someone armed with a .22 and can shoot it well sounds more dangerous to me than messing with most of the people I see at the range shooting 9MM and such. Bottom line, you have to be able to hit what you are shooting at. My father was 82nd Airborne and a pretty good shot with rifles, shotguns and handguns. His "go to" handgun was a .22 Browning Challenger.

 

[kthom]

Each of us must do what we have to do. Each of us is different and have different challenges. I believe you have made an informed and intelligent decision for yourself. If you are confident you can get good hits with that .22LR, and if you can shoot it enough to remain proficient with it, then you are doing the best you can do with what you have to do with.

I like to remember that nine 22LR rounds to center mass equals the same number of hits that you get with a standard 12 gauge 00 Buck shotgun shell. 9 forty grain 22 LR bullets equals 360 grains of lead! Best part of the deal is each of those rounds are going to strike in a sllghtly different location, and the chances are pretty good that one or more of those bullets is going to strike something important. They give enough penetration to get inside where the important stuff is located. There will be several places inside that are leaking red water!

I investigated a shooting that involved one round of .22LR. It entered the abdomen area of a large man's body, struck the pelvis, richocheted upward to a rib bone, down again to the pelvis and back up into the stomach. Autopsy revealed 29 perforations of the intestinal system, including the stomach. One kidney was nicked and some other important stuff was damaged. The pathologist was heard to remark that the man died from a really bad gut ache!

Every shooting is pretty much a law unto itself. No real telling what is liable to happen. I will say this. I'd rather take my chances being shot by one or maybe two rounds of any caliber than six or eight or more of .22LR. Experience tells me that the outcome of the latter is very likely to be a very negative experience!!!

I applaud you for making the necessary changes in order to keep on shooting and protecting yourself for as long as you can. The time will come for each of us, if we live long enough, that we will have to give up shooting altogether. I have watched this happen to both my dad and my FIL. Neither of them were pleased to give it up, but there simply was no other option. The last handgun my dad possessed was a K22 that I gave him back in the 80's. I've seen him kill several jackrabbits that were definitely a good rifle shot distant. But for the same reasons you state, it got to the point where he just did not have the hand and arm strength to use it. Sad day for both of us!

Good on you, Sir! I wish for you several more years of being able to shoot with your .22LR. I think you are pretty well covered!!!

 

[forrestinmathews]

You need a fan behind you to push the smoke away from you. The exhaust fan in the window isn't enough. Probably also a good idea to tent your range in plastic then you'd keep the lead out of the basement if you're going to go high volume in your practice. Just my $0.02 as a rimfire rifle competitive shooter in college.

 

[Walkingwolf]

It rumored that Ruger's gonna come out with an LC380s.
If they actually do, it might be worth looking into.

They have had one out for years, BUT it still has some recoil. My wife has a Witness Pavona in 380(compact CZ clone) and it is still snappy.

Ruger does make a SR22 that is compact, but they could go smaller. The CCI mini mag has a good reputation for reliable ignition, and feeding.

The 8 shot 22lr LCR would also be a good option.

 

[Walkingwolf]

You need a fan behind you to push the smoke away from you. The exhaust fan in the window isn't enough. Probably also a good idea to tent your range in plastic then you'd keep the lead out of the basement if you're going to go high volume in your practice. Just my $0.02 as a rimfire rifle competitive shooter in college.

He could also get a S&W M&P gas blowback airsoft. There is still the green gas used, but it is not going to be a problem with ventilation.

 

[swsig]

richardw, I'm going to approach your problem differently from everyone else. Instead of suggesting a change of caliber, I'm going to suggest a change in statins. I am 73, and a year ago, I was in the same situation you are in. I'd developed lots of pain in my shoulders which spread to my wrists and hands. I had to install an Apex kit in my M&P 40 so I could pull the trigger. I could barely lift my range bag. My Harvard med school trained hand doctor said he'd never seen a case like mine, and wasn't sure what was wrong. I didn't fit into any traditional arthritis category.

Subsequently, my primary care physician's nurse practitioner hypothesized I was having a reaction to atorvastatin (generic Lipitor), and told me to stop taking it. I told her I'd been taking 40 mg per day for 15 years without a single side effect. She said give it a try, so I did. I stated feeling better after a week, and after a month, all of my shoulder pain and 90% of my wrist and hand pain were gone. My cardiologist then prescribed a low dose (10 mg) of rosuvastatin (generic Crestor), which has controlled my cholesterol as well as the atorvastatin did, with no side effects.

As a result, I can now shoot what I want. Today, I went to the range and fired 150 rounds of .45, and 100 rounds of .40 with no problems. If your situation is anything like mine, you might want to check your statin to see if it might be the culprit. However, if you are one of the 1% of the people in our age group who is not taking a statin, good for you, and... never mind!

 

[Drm50]

A 22Hp is going to make most humans mighty sick and in most
cases all they will want to do is get away. Not much has been
said on 32acp. They have some fancy bullits for them now. There
is some recoil, but very little. The only keeper small pistol I own
is a PP, 32acp. It is heavy by today's standards, but very reliable.

 

[686-380]

O.K., my .02. I recommend a Ruger 22/45 Lite and a silencer. Hey, if you have to go the .22 route, why not make it as FUN as possible? Plus it makes firing it much more tolerable indoors. With subsonic ammo, it could be quieter than a pellet gun.

Good on you and keep on shooting!!

 

[amcline82]

As long as your comfortable with what you carry than that's all that matters.

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.