I presently carry a M37 revolver as a pocket CCW. A small.45 semiauto for carry will be my next purchase. I have narrowed down my choices to these two models: CS45 and 4513TSW. Would you be kind enough to voice your opinions about these choices to help me pick one. John
Choice: Cs45 or 4513TSW
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I presently carry a M37 revolver as a pocket CCW. A small.45 semiauto for carry will be my next purchase. I have narrowed down my choices to these two models: CS45 and 4513TSW. Would you be kind enough to voice your opinions about these choices to help me pick one. John
PeterBergh
Member
Both are good guns. That said, the CS45 is too small for my hands and the current 4513TSW has a light rail. IMHO, a light rail is completely unnecessary on a concealment gun. My preference would be for an earlier 4513 thta does not have a light rail. I have the earliest model of the 4513 (the one with a 6-round magazine) and am very happy with it.
6covered
Member
Might also consider the 457.
Just to add more to the mix.
Jon
aka 6covered
Just to add more to the mix.
Jon
aka 6covered
Guess it depends on the size of your hand and how comfortable you find each model.
I own an original 4513TSW and a CS45.
I find the CS45 to be a bit snappy, but it returns to target rather quickly and has a nice overall balance, heft and 'feel' to it during live fire.
Some folks have said they don't like the way the short grip feels in their hand, or how chunky the fat Hogue grips feel. I don't find the CS45 to be the best feeling model in my hand while just holding it, myself ... but I do find the grip profile, size and the Hogue grips work very well for me once I'm actually shooting the gun.
FWIW, I prefer my CS9 to my CS45, all things considered.
My original 4513TSW has less felt recoil than the CS45 and a more muzzle-forward balance. Less muzzle whip. Same short grip profile but without the short & fat Hogue grips. I did, however, modify a set of standard Hogue grip panels to fit the original 4513TSW's cutaway grip profile and I prefer the way they feel during live fire.
My issued 4513TSW was of recent manufacture and had the light rail. Required a different holster because of the rail. I never used the rail, though, and paid it no mind. The newer 4513TSW had the slightly thinner slide (no more angled channel under the right side/ambi lever needed for lever removal); night sights; the loaded chamber inspection port in the barrel tab (nice feature); and has the standard grip profile (shared with the 457 series) which allows use of the standard 7-rd magazine instead of the 6-rd magazine produced for the original 4513TSW. I also noticed at least one new machining change inside the slide which was confirmed to me by the folks at S&W as part of their continuing refinement of the TSW production. Nice pistol.
Here are some clickable thumbnails of my original 4513TSW along side my CS45 for a rough size comparison.
Here's one of my original 4513TSW alongside a new production model (issued gun).
Now, one thing to probably consider is that the CS45 magazines are unique to the CS45. They have the same 6-rd capacity as the original 4513TSW magazines, but they differ in that the engineers determined that more violent recoil of the CS45 required another set of machined indentations in the area of the magazine lips in order to prevent the top round from being displaced under recoil.
These additional indentations make for some occasional difficulties when loading or unloading magazines, granted, but seem to do the job during actual live fire. FWIW, I've tried using my 6-rd TSW magazines in my CS45 and I have experienced some occasional feeding problems caused by the top round either apparently being displaced forward under the lips during recoil, and I've even had the last round (when the magazine spring is at its least amount of tension) jump out from under the lips and be ejected during the recoil of the next-to-the-last round being fired. I only use CS45 magazines in my CS45.
Here's a thumbnail image of a 4513TSW magazine alongside a CS45 magazine. The CS45 magazine is on the right, and you can see the extra set of indentations which exert additional pressure on the round.
Like with other diminutive pistols shooting the .45 ACP cartridge, it pays to have a firm grip and locked wrist in order to realize optimal functioning.
I tend to replace the short recoil spring in the CS45 more quickly than I do in my larger .45 pistols. It's a short, flat-wound spring which takes a bit of pounding from the heavier .45 ACP cartridge. (The larger 4513TSW uses the same non-captive, dual recoil spring set as the 4013TSW & 4040PD.)
All of that said, the CS45 demonstrated itself to be a dependable, lightweight, fast-handling and surprisingly accurate little .45 pistol. It attracted a fair number of users from across the spectrum of folks who liked to shoot or carry .45's.
I think the 4513TSW is a more enjoyable gun to shoot for extended range sessions, and the grip profile seems to be preferred by more folks with whom I've spoken. Just depends.
Both models are probably going to be increasingly harder to find, though, as both were dropped from the commercial sales catalog & production line, remaining only in the LE/Gov catalog. Might be some still floating around in the commercial pipeline, or sitting neglected in some dealer's inventory somewhere. I've been told that new ones are only available as either agency orders or for individual LE sales through a designated LE distributor. The original 4513TSW was only produced for a couple of years.
As mentioned, the 457 & 457S were also excellent choices for a compact metal-framed TDA .45 pistol. A real bargain for a workhorse compact .45 pistol.
Neither my original 4513TSDW or CS45 are for sale, nor do I have any plans to get rid of either in the near future. I still use both for practice, but probably won't be carrying either very much as a retirement CCW weapon. (My 3913 & CS9 see more use.
)
Both are good examples of S&W .45 pistols.
Luck to you in your decision-making.
I own an original 4513TSW and a CS45.
I find the CS45 to be a bit snappy, but it returns to target rather quickly and has a nice overall balance, heft and 'feel' to it during live fire.
Some folks have said they don't like the way the short grip feels in their hand, or how chunky the fat Hogue grips feel. I don't find the CS45 to be the best feeling model in my hand while just holding it, myself ... but I do find the grip profile, size and the Hogue grips work very well for me once I'm actually shooting the gun.
FWIW, I prefer my CS9 to my CS45, all things considered.
My original 4513TSW has less felt recoil than the CS45 and a more muzzle-forward balance. Less muzzle whip. Same short grip profile but without the short & fat Hogue grips. I did, however, modify a set of standard Hogue grip panels to fit the original 4513TSW's cutaway grip profile and I prefer the way they feel during live fire.
My issued 4513TSW was of recent manufacture and had the light rail. Required a different holster because of the rail. I never used the rail, though, and paid it no mind. The newer 4513TSW had the slightly thinner slide (no more angled channel under the right side/ambi lever needed for lever removal); night sights; the loaded chamber inspection port in the barrel tab (nice feature); and has the standard grip profile (shared with the 457 series) which allows use of the standard 7-rd magazine instead of the 6-rd magazine produced for the original 4513TSW. I also noticed at least one new machining change inside the slide which was confirmed to me by the folks at S&W as part of their continuing refinement of the TSW production. Nice pistol.
Here are some clickable thumbnails of my original 4513TSW along side my CS45 for a rough size comparison.
Here's one of my original 4513TSW alongside a new production model (issued gun).
Now, one thing to probably consider is that the CS45 magazines are unique to the CS45. They have the same 6-rd capacity as the original 4513TSW magazines, but they differ in that the engineers determined that more violent recoil of the CS45 required another set of machined indentations in the area of the magazine lips in order to prevent the top round from being displaced under recoil.
These additional indentations make for some occasional difficulties when loading or unloading magazines, granted, but seem to do the job during actual live fire. FWIW, I've tried using my 6-rd TSW magazines in my CS45 and I have experienced some occasional feeding problems caused by the top round either apparently being displaced forward under the lips during recoil, and I've even had the last round (when the magazine spring is at its least amount of tension) jump out from under the lips and be ejected during the recoil of the next-to-the-last round being fired. I only use CS45 magazines in my CS45.
Here's a thumbnail image of a 4513TSW magazine alongside a CS45 magazine. The CS45 magazine is on the right, and you can see the extra set of indentations which exert additional pressure on the round.
Like with other diminutive pistols shooting the .45 ACP cartridge, it pays to have a firm grip and locked wrist in order to realize optimal functioning.
I tend to replace the short recoil spring in the CS45 more quickly than I do in my larger .45 pistols. It's a short, flat-wound spring which takes a bit of pounding from the heavier .45 ACP cartridge. (The larger 4513TSW uses the same non-captive, dual recoil spring set as the 4013TSW & 4040PD.)
All of that said, the CS45 demonstrated itself to be a dependable, lightweight, fast-handling and surprisingly accurate little .45 pistol. It attracted a fair number of users from across the spectrum of folks who liked to shoot or carry .45's.
I think the 4513TSW is a more enjoyable gun to shoot for extended range sessions, and the grip profile seems to be preferred by more folks with whom I've spoken. Just depends.
Both models are probably going to be increasingly harder to find, though, as both were dropped from the commercial sales catalog & production line, remaining only in the LE/Gov catalog. Might be some still floating around in the commercial pipeline, or sitting neglected in some dealer's inventory somewhere. I've been told that new ones are only available as either agency orders or for individual LE sales through a designated LE distributor. The original 4513TSW was only produced for a couple of years.
As mentioned, the 457 & 457S were also excellent choices for a compact metal-framed TDA .45 pistol. A real bargain for a workhorse compact .45 pistol.
Neither my original 4513TSDW or CS45 are for sale, nor do I have any plans to get rid of either in the near future. I still use both for practice, but probably won't be carrying either very much as a retirement CCW weapon. (My 3913 & CS9 see more use.
Both are good examples of S&W .45 pistols.
Luck to you in your decision-making.
martialcomp
Member
I own a 4513 TSW.
I replaced the grips with Hogues. Made a huge difference. It feels great in my hand with the new grips.
The 4513 TSW is also fairly accurate.
Best 10 shot group at 25 yards was 2.15" inches. Not bad for a production 45 with a barrel less than 4" inches.
SMITH & WESSON 4513 TSW
Rem. Match 185 gr. 775 fps 2.66" 2.48" 2.15" 2.43"
http://findarticles.com/p/arti..._146_24/ai_61861509/
I replaced the grips with Hogues. Made a huge difference. It feels great in my hand with the new grips.
The 4513 TSW is also fairly accurate.
Best 10 shot group at 25 yards was 2.15" inches. Not bad for a production 45 with a barrel less than 4" inches.
SMITH & WESSON 4513 TSW
Rem. Match 185 gr. 775 fps 2.66" 2.48" 2.15" 2.43"
http://findarticles.com/p/arti..._146_24/ai_61861509/
martialcomp
Member
There are 2 4513 TSW's on Gunsamerica Just go to Gunsamerica.com and do a search for 4513.
martialcomp
Member
Nice!
You will be very happy with the accuracy. I have always been shocked at how accurate the 4513's and 457's are.
You will be very happy with the accuracy. I have always been shocked at how accurate the 4513's and 457's are.
Bullman
Member
At first I didn't really care for my CS 45, the grip just didn't suit me at all for a concealed carry gun. Then when I got a hold of Kurt's info on how to make a Delrin grip, and I left the backstrap extended to the bottom of the mag, it made all the difference in the world for me. The gun shoots really well for me, I would like to qualify with it again with this grip, last time I shot around an 85, but I bet I can bring that up now.
Thanks fastbolt for all the info I picked up a 4513tsw from gander mountain last year and have been very happy with it. Mine looks identical to your newer model
Bullman
Member
Triaxle, did you ever sell your 4516? I moved another pistol and have a little bit of capital freed up if you still have it.
ArmyCop
Member
My current CCW is the CS45. I have no experiance with the other you mentioned but am happy with the CS45.
LAYGO
Member
Guess it depends on the size of your hand and how comfortable you find each model.
I own an original 4513TSW and a CS45.
I find the CS45 to be a bit snappy, but it returns to target rather quickly and has a nice overall balance, heft and 'feel' to it during live fire.
Some folks have said they don't like the way the short grip feels in their hand, or how chunky the fat Hogue grips feel. I don't find the CS45 to be the best feeling model in my hand while just holding it, myself ... but I do find the grip profile, size and the Hogue grips work very well for me once I'm actually shooting the gun.
FWIW, I prefer my CS9 to my CS45, all things considered.
My original 4513TSW has less felt recoil than the CS45 and a more muzzle-forward balance. Less muzzle whip. Same short grip profile but without the short & fat Hogue grips. I did, however, modify a set of standard Hogue grip panels to fit the original 4513TSW's cutaway grip profile and I prefer the way they feel during live fire.
My issued 4513TSW was of recent manufacture and had the light rail. Required a different holster because of the rail. I never used the rail, though, and paid it no mind. The newer 4513TSW had the slightly thinner slide (no more angled channel under the right side/ambi lever needed for lever removal); night sights; the loaded chamber inspection port in the barrel tab (nice feature); and has the standard grip profile (shared with the 457 series) which allows use of the standard 7-rd magazine instead of the 6-rd magazine produced for the original 4513TSW. I also noticed at least one new machining change inside the slide which was confirmed to me by the folks at S&W as part of their continuing refinement of the TSW production. Nice pistol.
Here are some clickable thumbnails of my original 4513TSW along side my CS45 for a rough size comparison.
Here's one of my original 4513TSW alongside a new production model (issued gun).
Now, one thing to probably consider is that the CS45 magazines are unique to the CS45. They have the same 6-rd capacity as the original 4513TSW magazines, but they differ in that the engineers determined that more violent recoil of the CS45 required another set of machined indentations in the area of the magazine lips in order to prevent the top round from being displaced under recoil.
These additional indentations make for some occasional difficulties when loading or unloading magazines, granted, but seem to do the job during actual live fire. FWIW, I've tried using my 6-rd TSW magazines in my CS45 and I have experienced some occasional feeding problems caused by the top round either apparently being displaced forward under the lips during recoil, and I've even had the last round (when the magazine spring is at its least amount of tension) jump out from under the lips and be ejected during the recoil of the next-to-the-last round being fired. I only use CS45 magazines in my CS45.
Here's a thumbnail image of a 4513TSW magazine alongside a CS45 magazine. The CS45 magazine is on the right, and you can see the extra set of indentations which exert additional pressure on the round.
Like with other diminutive pistols shooting the .45 ACP cartridge, it pays to have a firm grip and locked wrist in order to realize optimal functioning.
I tend to replace the short recoil spring in the CS45 more quickly than I do in my larger .45 pistols. It's a short, flat-wound spring which takes a bit of pounding from the heavier .45 ACP cartridge. (The larger 4513TSW uses the same non-captive, dual recoil spring set as the 4013TSW & 4040PD.)
All of that said, the CS45 demonstrated itself to be a dependable, lightweight, fast-handling and surprisingly accurate little .45 pistol. It attracted a fair number of users from across the spectrum of folks who liked to shoot or carry .45's.
I think the 4513TSW is a more enjoyable gun to shoot for extended range sessions, and the grip profile seems to be preferred by more folks with whom I've spoken. Just depends.
Both models are probably going to be increasingly harder to find, though, as both were dropped from the commercial sales catalog & production line, remaining only in the LE/Gov catalog. Might be some still floating around in the commercial pipeline, or sitting neglected in some dealer's inventory somewhere. I've been told that new ones are only available as either agency orders or for individual LE sales through a designated LE distributor. The original 4513TSW was only produced for a couple of years.
As mentioned, the 457 & 457S were also excellent choices for a compact metal-framed TDA .45 pistol. A real bargain for a workhorse compact .45 pistol.
Neither my original 4513TSDW or CS45 are for sale, nor do I have any plans to get rid of either in the near future. I still use both for practice, but probably won't be carrying either very much as a retirement CCW weapon. (My 3913 & CS9 see more use.)
Both are good examples of S&W .45 pistols.
Luck to you in your decision-making.
Excellent info, now I realize I picked up 2 CS45 mags yesterday at the gun show.
Babalooie
US Veteran
I have owned the following:
CS45 - Boxy, with squared slide and value line sights. Didn't care for the recoil and the grip was "funny." Didn't like the idea of having to get special mags for it. Sold the gun.
457 - Not a bad gun, but boxy; squared slide - doesn't have the refinements of the 4513. Slide had the value line sights. Good gun for the money. Sold it.
4513tsw - Seven round version. Nice gun; didn't care for the light rail as it wouldn't fit in my holster. Sold it.
4513 - six round version. No light rail. Fits my hand well and shoots well for me. Fits my current holster. Still have it.
They're all decent guns. It depends on personal preference.
CS45 - Boxy, with squared slide and value line sights. Didn't care for the recoil and the grip was "funny." Didn't like the idea of having to get special mags for it. Sold the gun.
457 - Not a bad gun, but boxy; squared slide - doesn't have the refinements of the 4513. Slide had the value line sights. Good gun for the money. Sold it.
4513tsw - Seven round version. Nice gun; didn't care for the light rail as it wouldn't fit in my holster. Sold it.
4513 - six round version. No light rail. Fits my hand well and shoots well for me. Fits my current holster. Still have it.
They're all decent guns. It depends on personal preference.
sailor2000
Member
I love my CS45 and wish they still made them! I carry it every day in a Bladetech IWB with a crossbreed IWB mag carrier on the other side. It is so small and light that I usually am unaware I have it.
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