Choosing Your Handguns in War

[Ray]

Just a follow up on Manch´s jump :" Before he (Manch) jumped that night of April 18th, Shorty saw to it that every weapon was in its proper place on him.He was very well weighted down,but he couldn´t beat the thought of going out without some Baby Ruths. He stuffed a lot of them in his shirt , open at the collar, and dropped down into the night.
His chute opened with a loud report and jerked him so badly that it shucked the baby Ruths right out their wrappers and out of his shirt. Shorty just molted candy in mid-air. But, worst of all, for Shorty, his grip was broken on his rifle and three of his four pistols ".
Lawson don´t say which guns were lost.

So it seems to have been a shower of guns and candies into the China sea !

Regards, Ray

 

[seldon14]

This thread is absolutely fascinating. Makes me want to find as many of these accounts as possible and compile them into a book.

 

[jspick]

My father in law carried a colt 1917 DA 45 in WWII. That DA45 was issued to his uncle in WWI. I now have that 45 and shoot it once in a while. It is very tight and in very good condition.

 

[Texas Star]

My father in law carried a colt 1917 DA 45 in WWII. That DA45 was issued to his uncle in WWI. I now have that 45 and shoot it once in a while. It is very tight and in very good condition.

I'm so glad that you still have that Colt.

Is the finish blue or Parkerized? Mine was the latter and all I've seen were, but that may well have been refinishing during WW II.

 

[BigBill]

I took a co worker who was in nam shooting he couldn't hit a broad side of a barn. I taught him how to shoot a 1911.

 

[jspick]

I'm so glad that you still have that Colt.

Is the finish blue or Parkerized? Mine was the latter and all I've seen were, but that may well have been refinishing during WW II.

It is parkerized. It is all original.

 

[29-1]

On the jump onto Point Salines we were taking fire from the Cubans in the hills on the north side of the runway. I had landed just off the tarmac in a muddy area on the south side of the runway. I got out of my harness and ran to some cover and was about to return fire with my CAR-15 (mine was a Vietnam era XM177). Just before I pulled the trigger I noticed that the muzzle was covered with a big clump of mud. I pull out my 1911 and sat it on top my ruck while I dug out my cleaning kit to rod the barrel. Luckily, there were other Rangers to return fire and I was able to get my rifle back into operation without having to resort to the pistol. Never had to fire a pistol in combat but it was always comforting to know it was there just in case.

SRG, for the NARP folks here on the forum, jumping at 400 feet in the dark didn't allow you much time to figure out your PLF so bet you lawn darted. Just messing with you. I remember doing the same thing a few times myself. Pucker factor goes up considerably when your primary means of remaining on earth is inop . You Rangers did awesome that day in particular. Lost a good friend, CPT Mike Ritz, 82nd, there the next day. Thank you for your service Ranger!

 

[JohnZMI]

I was an Army helicopter pilot and instructor pilot- when I got orders in 1963 for VN, I was told I'd be issued an Air Force .38 Special revolver when I got there, as there were no 1911's available. That idea didn't appeal to me, so I bought one of the very first Ruger .44 Magnum Super Blackhawks made at a gun shop near the SF airport and stuffed it in my bag (commercial charter flight).

I carried it in a shoulder rig while I was there, and ammo was readily available any time anyone went to Da Nang. Frame loosened up, and Ruger sent me a new set of screws with Nylok inserts that they didn't have when the pistol was built. Brought it home with me in 1964 and finally sold it a couple of years ago.

 

[tenntex32]

My father in law carried a colt 1917 DA 45 in WWII. That DA45 was issued to his uncle in WWI. I now have that 45 and shoot it once in a while. It is very tight and in very good condition.

As a M1917 collector that Colt looks too nice to have been carried in two wars! It doesn't strike me as a parkerized example, especially if your father-in-law got it directly from his uncle who carried it in WWI. (It could be the lighting in the pic though.)

I can't see your father-in-law or his uncle turning it it for it to get parkerized/arsenal reworked……..and then getting the exact revolver back! It may still be the original finish which was rather course. (The original factory finish is an obvious brushing with blue applied over.)

Unfortunately I have no guns with family war provenance in my collection, so you are very fortunate.

Thanks for sharing it, and more pics please when you get a chance.
Dale

 

[tenntex32]

I was an Army helicopter pilot and instructor pilot- when I got orders in 1963 for VN, I was told I'd be issued an Air Force .38 Special revolver when I got there, as there were no 1911's available. That idea didn't appeal to me, so I bought one of the very first Ruger .44 Magnum Super Blackhawks made at a gun shop near the SF airport and stuffed it in my bag (commercial charter flight).

I carried it in a shoulder rig while I was there, and ammo was readily available any time anyone went to Da Nang. Frame loosened up, and Ruger sent me a new set of screws with Nylok inserts that they didn't have when the pistol was built. Brought it home with me in 1964 and finally sold it a couple of years ago.

Not that I am judging...………..but why would you sell the firearm you wore in-country?

That hog leg would be going in the casket with me...….in the same shoulder rig you wore it in!

I bet you got lots of comments about it while there.

Dale

 

[Lady Smith]

This post about Patton got me thinking:
( General Patton ).


My late father was a Master Sergeant in the Korean War. He told me that he had told his superior officer that he could not shoot a 1911 worth sour apples. He asked if he could carry another type of sidearm. He was granted that option. He chose a .38 S&W revolver. Where he got it, I do not know. Did he get it in Korea? Did he order it from the states? I do not know. All I know is that it was a 4" K-frame, blue, with adjustable sights.

How common was it for U.S. troops to carry sidearms other than the standard 1911? Was that option common, or rare? I assume rare.



-------

Adjustable sights ? I thought all military guns had fixed sights

 

[Doc44]

My father served in the Army from February 1941 to October 1945. As a First Sergeant in the Infantry he carried the the Colt shown below while serving in the European Theater with the 28th Infantry Division, "ROLL ON".

Bill

 

[saaman]

I flunked my physical due to a heart murmur so didn't serve in Viet Nam. A high school friend was drafted but missed the trip to Viet Nam due to being quarantined with an infectious disease--the men who made the trip were killed shortly after arriving. They were loaded in buses and had their weapons but no ammunition when attacked. My friend was assigned to help process the bodies that came back.

 

[jspick]

As a M1917 collector that Colt looks too nice to have been carried in two wars! It doesn't strike me as a parkerized example, especially if your father-in-law got it directly from his uncle who carried it in WWI. (It could be the lighting in the pic though.)

I can't see your father-in-law or his uncle turning it it for it to get parkerized/arsenal reworked……..and then getting the exact revolver back! It may still be the original finish which was rather course. (The original factory finish is an obvious brushing with blue applied over.)

Unfortunately I have no guns with family war provenance in my collection, so you are very fortunate.

Thanks for sharing it, and more pics please when you get a chance.
Dale

I had a collector look at it and he was convinced it was original.

 

[tenntex32]

I had a collector look at it and he was convinced it was original.

Original factory finish would mean not parkerized. That's what I was getting at. Many were arsenal reworked/parkerized around the WWII timeframe though.

Although there is a fair amount of light reflection in your pic the finish on the revolver looks as though it may be the original brush blue finish and not parkerized.

Better pictures would help with determining.

Dale

 

[jspick]

Original factory finish would mean not parkerized. That's what I was getting at. Many were arsenal reworked/parkerized around the WWII timeframe though.

Although there is a fair amount of light reflection in your pic the finish on the revolver looks as though it may be the original brush blue finish and not parkerized.

Better pictures would help with determining.

Dale

I get what you are saying. Perhaps it is the brush blued finish as you call it. I do not have the gun with me. I'm at our retirement home and the gun is still at the old place. I will look next time I go back. I have been wrong before. Just ask my wife! ha ha

 

[tenntex32]

I get what you are saying. Perhaps it is the brush blued finish as you call it. I do not have the gun with me. I'm at our retirement home and the gun is still at the old place. I will look next time I go back. I have been wrong before. Just ask my wife! ha ha

In this instance, if the finish is original and not parkerized, then it would be good to be wrong!

With the original brushed blued finish you can actually see the various directions of the metal brush strokes under the bluing. With a parkerized finish, and many times a polished/reblued finish, you may no longer be able to see the original brush strokes anymore.

I do love the old M1917 examples though, both Colt and S&W.

Dale

 

[Ross3914]

Adjustable sights ? I thought all military guns had fixed sights

The US military bought a bunch of Model 15's, which have adjustable sights, in the Korea time frame to make up for shortfalls in the number of sidearms available.

 

[Texas Star]

Adjustable sights ? I thought all military guns had fixed sights

From about 1960-1985, the S&W Combat Masterpiece, Model 15, was the standard USAF sidearm. There was also a snub version, designated by USAF as Model 56.

I think other armed forces also sometimes had these, but more often, the fixed sight M-10 and the Ruger Service-Six.

I'm not sure when the M-15 became the norm, but it was in the training manuals we got when I was in AP School in 1963, and I think those books were a year or two old then.

We had also gotten badges to replace the old AP armbands.

I suppose that your comment referred only to handguns. Surely you know that military rifles have had adjustable sights since at least the Spanish-American War. Maybe before. I think the Springfield .45-70's had sights that could be set by the soldier. I wouldn't be surprised if some Civil War rifles had adj. sights. I just haven't looked at any in a few decades.

 

[old tanker]

I took a co worker who was in nam shooting he couldn't hit a broad side of a barn. I taught him how to shoot a 1911.

Sniper school graduates and spec ops types being the exception. Marksmanship training in the Army has always been pretty minimal, and worse for those armed with pistols. Every soldier I knew that could really shoot had learned on his own time and dime.

For the average trooper, weapons training was a rehash of what he learned in basic training: disassembly, assembly, care and cleaning, nine rounds for zero, forty rounds to qualify, see you again next year.

 

[Muley Gil]

" I wouldn't be surprised if some Civil War rifles had adj. sights. I just haven't looked at any in a few decades."


Starting with the 1855 rifle musket, long arms for the US troops had rear sights adjustable for elevation, using flip up sight leaves. British 1853 pattern rifle muskets, which were used by the US and the Confederate states, also had rear sights that were adjustable for elevation.

 

[Lady Smith]

From about 1960-1985, the S&W Combat Masterpiece, Model 15, was the standard USAF sidearm. There was also a snub version, designated by USAF as Model 56.

I think other armed forces also sometimes had these, but more often, the fixed sight M-10 and the Ruger Service-Six.

I'm not sure when the M-15 became the norm, but it was in the training manuals we got when I was in AP School in 1963, and I think those books were a year or two old then.

We had also gotten badges to replace the old AP armbands.

I suppose that your comment referred only to handguns. Surely you know that military rifles have had adjustable sights since at least the Spanish-American War. Maybe before. I think the Springfield .45-70's had sights that could be set by the soldier. I wouldn't be surprised if some Civil War rifles had adj. sights. I just haven't looked at any in a few decades.

Yes I was talking about handguns.

About rifles with adjustable sights, I don't know which model was the first one but I know the 1858 Harpers Ferry Rifle Musket had an adjustable rear sight.

Thanks

 

[britbike1]

Ruger std auto

One of the pilots on my carrier cva 14 Ticonderoga, carried a ruger std auto in his shoulder holster. This was '66-'67. Probably figured he couldn't fight off the NVA with anything you could hold in one hand and his best bet was to go to ground and live off the land til rescue. Don't know about the ammo but probably could carry many rounds. I also remember at that time M60 stainless were impossible to get.