Clarify the use of the Babbitt bar

[DWalt]

I have seen numerous references about various gunsmiths somehow using a Babbitt bar to move the point of impact of a fixed sight revolver. Yet I haven't seen any detailed descriptions about exactly how that is/was done. Can anyone explain what the method was? And does it work?

 

[Autonomous]

I'd guess they are soft, lead alloy punches.

 

[scooter123]

A babbit bar is bar of rather soft bearing alloy, sort of a hard lead alloy. As for the method, basically you clamp the frame of the revolver in a vice with shaped hardwood inserts and whack the barrel so that the frame is bent slightly at the barrel mount. Naturally this approach did require that the Smith doing the work "have the touch" because otherwise he'd be bending that frame back and forth until it cracked. To be blunt not something for a kitchen table gunsmith and something that still makes me cringe at the thought of. Aren't you glad that today the Lathe is quite common and we can "re clock" a barrel using a technique that allows us to make adjustments down to the 1/10,000 inch.

 

[MygunisaS&Wrevolver]

I am by all means not an expert, but have read that a babbitt bar is like a round or triangular lead alloy rod that it used by a skilled S&W gunsmith to straighten a front sight blade, extractor rod or an overtorqued frame. This gunsmith needs to know how much energy to use and where to exactly apply the striking force to accomplish this. The lead alloy of the rod is supposidly not to cause damage to the finish of the revolver. This sounds way old school and definately out of my league.

 

[Drm50]

It must have been before my time, I never herd of bending frame
to adjust point of impact. I have herd of clamping barrel and using a babit punch to bend sight for windage.

 

[Big Cholla]

I have been trained in the use of and when not to use the babbit bar. It is not used to correct the clocking of a revolver barrel. It is used in the conjunction of the correct gauges to realign a bent frame. It can be used to correct the correlation of POA and POI, usually in fixed sight revolvers. I have used it to correct a frame badly warped by the 'bubba hammer handle' method of removing a barrel from said frame. I have used it to correct a top strap bent down to touching the cylinder. I have used it to bring the POI closer to POA. There are other more minor uses around the pistolsmith work bench. It does take some muscle memory for gauging the amount of force to be used in any given instance.

FYI, merely wacking a frame back into alignment is not the final solution. Bend steel and then bend it back and one dimension or another will 'grow'. That is going to have to be taken into account with head space, barrel/cylinder gap and timing. Pre model numbered frames will be of slightly 'softer' steel and will bend easier. Care must be taken when moving from a later frame and getting use to the harder blows necessary to achieve desired results to an older softer frame requiring the same corrections. It takes a much softer blow to move an older frame the equivalent distance as compared to a newer frame.

Many years ago, custom quality shotgun makers 'regulated' the barrels of a side by side or an overunder by wacking the barrel in the appropriate spot with a lead babbit hammer. There were specialists in those custom houses that did only that job.

 

[Tyrod]

I once walked into a Babit Bar. The patrons quickly noticed I was a proto human and began throwing celery sticks at me. I rekon they were drinking bloody marys. I high tailed it out of there, slipped on a carrot stick and busted my watch. I never returned. I later learned Jessica Babit was performing there. Some years on I found out the proprietor Roger Babit was busted for smuggling cocaine. He was eventually acquitted. The bar fell on hard times and closed down. Some months later 3M bought out the bar and it is now the largest Scotch Tape store in America.

 

[steelslaver]

I have an older reblued I frame 32 that shoots a bit off. Guns not worth a lot. I have been sent clear instructions on where to strike it and appox size of Babbitt bar etc. Understand the process and what is happening. But, just can't get myself to commit to smacking the gun.

 

[Tyrod]

Before we go too too far down this road of beating up revolvers with babbitt bars, know that that's not what they were designed for. Babbitt is designed as a bearing material. About 100 years ago it was common for machine tools to be made with plain bearings made of babbitt. The bar part was just a convenient way to transport the babbitt to the tool. Where upon, the babbitt was melted into a built in mould surrounding the ferrous journal that needed support. It's a nearly dead skill set and I've hardly given it justice.

 

[federali]

"Babbitizing"

I purchased my Model 65-3" RB while at the S&W armorers' school back in the 80s. After fixing a minor internal flaw. I discovered that the gun didn't quite shoot to the sights. One of the S&W armorers took the gun and "babbitized" it, to use his lingo. Afterward, the gun always shot to the sights.

My feeling is that taking a babbit to a revolver requires experience and skill. The amount of babbitizing needed is always too small to see with the naked eye so I would be inclined not to try it myself.

Incidentally, the 7-day revolver armorers' school I attended did not teach the use of the babbit.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I have seen numerous references about various gunsmiths somehow using a Babbitt bar to move the point of impact of a fixed sight revolver. Yet I haven't seen any detailed descriptions about exactly how that is/was done. Can anyone explain what the method was? And does it work?

Gun goes in vice, babbit bar used to whack barrel towards appropriate direction . . .

 

[ken158]

I purchased my Model 65-3" RB while at the S&W armorers' school back in the 80s. After fixing a minor internal flaw. I discovered that the gun didn't quite shoot to the sights. One of the S&W armorers took the gun and "babbitized" it, to use his lingo. Afterward, the gun always shot to the sights.

My feeling is that taking a babbit to a revolver requires experience and skill. The amount of babbitizing needed is always too small to see with the naked eye so I would be inclined not to try it myself.

Incidentally, the 7-day revolver armorers' school I attended did not teach the use of the babbit.

My Babbitt bar was also included in the gunsmith kit I received at the S&W armorers school in the early 80's. Fun times as we were introduced into making adjustments on various parts of model 64's which were for an unknown PD order. I will say that I turned out a few mighty fine revolvers in that two week period.

 

[Big Cholla]

Actually, the Babbit tool approved for S&W 'wacking' is a bar unto itself. It is just a round bar of lead alloy about 3/4" to 7/8" in dia. and about 4" to 5" long.

Being a lead bullet caster since about the age of 18 (a looong time ago) I started seeing other possibilities for the use of lead blocks on my gunsmithing workbench. I now have two Lyman type cast ingots of lead laying on my bench at all times. The tops have various sized "V" grooves or square grooves to aid in holding a part or a gun while doing something else to that part or gun. I also have a casting of lead out of the bottom of a round bottomed melting pot laying there that I use as much as the ingots. It looks like a little low igloo of lead. It is perfect to aid in backing up a small part that is handheld while being polished, sanded, filed, etc. ..... When my lead 'helpers' get too beat up and tending to be less usable than usual, I just recast them and start over. ....

 

[Autonomous]

Fascinating. I had assumed they would be used for adjusting sights and not much else. Thanks guys.
Some old automotive engines were called babbitt beaters for their penchant of hammering the babbit bearings. There are tales of roadside repairs using a bit of leather from a strap or belt to replace a ruined bearing.

 

[Tired Gunsmith]

I was instructed on the use of a Babbitt bar at schooling provided by Both Colt and Smith & Wesson.
This was back in the early 1950's.
The learning curve was SLOW, and somewhat tedious...but it proved to be quite good in solving problems with Point of aim/point of impact of 4" barreled Police Service revolvers. as well as the sprung frame syndrome.
The procedure was utilized many times during my career as a Gunsmith.

 

[les.b]

Here are my "Babbits", which I received in 1977 at the factory Armorer's school. Along with some other tools that some of you will recognize:



Best Regards, Les

 

[federali]

Where's the thin-wall cutter modified to stretch the yoke?

 

[Bert Man]

Where's the thin-wall cutter modified to stretch the yoke?

When I was at the S&W school the same year as Les I never saw a yoke cutter. We were taught to use the yoke alignment tool and a small ball peen hammer to stretch the yoke to eliminate endshake cylinder. One of the main advantages of the babbit bars is that they produce a dead blow and also will not mark the gun or its finish. Also babbit bars are used for several other purposes besides adjusting POI on fixed sight revolvers.

 

[les.b]

That sounds more familiar to me, Bert, although it's been what, 40 years ago? I don't remember anything about a yoke cutter.... Hey, we could have been in the same class. I still have some notes and a class roster somewhere in my files. I'll check and send you a PM if I can find the dates when I was there. Of course they had quite a few classes each year. That was one of the best schools that I ever attended.

Best Regards, Les

 

[Bert Man]

That sounds more familiar to me, Bert, although it's been what, 40 years ago? I don't remember anything about a yoke cutter.... Hey, we could have been in the same class. I still have some notes and a class roster somewhere in my files. I'll check and send you a PM if I can find the dates when I was there. Of course they had quite a few classes each year. That was one of the best schools that I ever attended.

Best Regards, Les

Like you I would have to hunt up my certificate to see the exact dates but it Was definitely 2 weeks in September. Yep, 40 years ago. Where did our youth go? Probably wherever my memory went.

That memory strikes again, was actually there sometime in August not September