Clarify the use of the Babbitt bar

[Drm50]

I pour my own lead hammers, bars & punches. Not to choosy that I have
to use babbit. I have a lot of mystery lead that is hard stuff. Very useful
to tighten up old doubles and single barrel shotguns. The mistake most
made with these tools is " pecking ", you need to figure what needs done,
support it well and give it a solid wack. Check your work and proceed from
there. I have never bent a frame to line POA, but have bumped sights on
service type revolvers. To straighten shotgun barrels ( not doubles) I built
a rig with sliding stirrups and a pressure yoke powered by a 3/4 ratchet.
All this stuff requires the feel.

 

[kthom]

I've got a babbit bar among my "possibles". Don't use it a lot, and have never used it for the purpose described here. But sometimes you need to give something a whack that doesn't leave a mark, so I hunt it up and use it instead of a ball peen hammer. It has come in handy for me more than once!!

 

[Ed Fowler]

How many were coached by Johnny Contro? He coached me in about 69.

 

[g8rb8]

You boys be careful around the Bobbitt tool. This is the one Lorena used.

Oh. Babbitt bar, not Bobbitt tool. Never mind. Well, on second thought I'd be pretty careful whacking on anything with either one. Whacking on a S&W with a hard metal object sends chills up my spine but whacking with the Bobbitt tool .........

 

[Bert Man]

How many were coached by Johnny Contro? He coached me in about 69.

Yes, John Contro was our senior instructor along with another guy with the first name Don.

 

[les.b]

How many were coached by Johnny Contro? He coached me in about 69.

Yep! He was still there in 1977, along with as Bert points out, Don, whose last name I can't remember right now. At a field school I attended in the nineties, Don was still instructing, but John was long retired. They were wonderful folks.

Best Regards, Les

 

[Ed Fowler]

Thanks for letting me know, John was a good hand, I would love the opportunity to hand him the last S&W I worked over and let him examine it, then maybe go shoot.

 

[armorer951]

Don and John were still teaching in 1980. Don's last name is Vivenzio.

 

[les.b]

Don and John were still teaching in 1980. Don's last name is Vivenzio.

Thanks!! My memory just isn't what it used to be!! That's it. They were great guys, and I only wish that I retained all of the wonderful knowlege that they imparted to us. A lot of the things that we were taught were seldom used (mostly because Smiths are really reliable guns) and I'm afraid that I have lost many of the skills that they trained us in. Well, and then we went to semi-autos, and I went back to school for the semis. Smith put on a class for the WV State Police in the mid nineties, and I attended it. Don was the instructor, and it was held at the WV State Police Academy. That is the last time that I saw him....

Best Regards, Les

 

[Toyman]

I went through fall 1979 Don showed us how to adjust point of impact on a model 10. He didn't tell us ahead of time what he was going to do and all the students made a sucking wind sound as the struck the barrel on the babbitt bar.
Don told us best not to do in front of owner !!
As for Don Vivenzio I called S&W to order some parts and asked if the person I was speaking with knew him and shortly he picked up he was working in customer service last I knew.

 

[Muss Muggins]

How many were coached by Johnny Contro? He coached me in about 69.

I was taught by a nice fella named Gary Settembre . . .

 

[les.b]

Well, for any of you old timers like me, who might have went to school back then, I found my original letter from Smith and Wesson!! (I keep just about everything, which is why they have TV shows about "hoarders").

I was in the class that met from April 25th, 1977 through May 6th, 1977. I also have the roster of participants, 18 in all. Only one of them was non LEO, and that was a fellow named Fred Sadowski, of "300 Gunsmith Service, of Denver Colorado. I think I heard of him later, as he was fairly well known at one time. I believe that he has since passed on.

By the way, at the bottom of the letter there are a number of names of employees for distribution. One of them is a fellow named "R Jinks".

After the two week Armorer's School, I see that I stayed an extra week for the "Advanced Firearms School".

Good times......

Best Regards, Les

 

[mtgianni]

I believe the Railroad was one of the biggest users of babbit as axle wheel bearings. In the 60's and 70's it was cheap, readily available, and easy to pour into any mold you had made.

 

[DWalt]

Would be much better if someone put together a video on the use of the Babbit bar. After reading all the foregoing, I still do not understand the methodology.

 

[2152hq]

It's the Lead Hammer on most Mechanics/'Smiths benchs,,that's all.
No mystery.
The alloy happens to have been Babbit Metal in past.
No Lead in most Babbit alloys (Bearing Metal), about 90% Tin. The rest Antimony and a bit of copper.

Does the same thing as a Lead hammer. Though the alloy is harder so it doesn't deform as quick in use.
Either can be melted and recast easily.
They used to sell Hammer Moulds of many different sizes and shapes for casting/ re-casting your own Lead or Babbitt hammer head onto your own handle.
Maybe they still do

Heavy & soft so it doesn't mark or damage the surface of the parts being struck.
It produces a dead fall blow to the part or parts you need to move, seat, bend, or adjust.

It doesn't rebound off the surface, It's weight gives an extremely heavy blow to the part w/o damaging it if the part is a solid metal one.

Yes you can damage stuff with it obviously.

But for bending heavy pieces very small amts, either is very handy.
Of course they take some skill in use and you can easily over 'adjust'.

Good for machine set-up too.
Moving heavy machine fixtures very small amts to square and level them up when setting up for a job. Won't damage the tooling fixtures and easy to make the small movements to them before bolting in place.

For fitting tight sliding parts to one another, they are very handy. Not only to knock the part(s) back and forth but to gently strike one to the side slightly and make for some clearance so it does slide smoothly.
In that simple move, constant re-spotting & re-fitting can be elliminated.

It's the way things were done at one time.
It still works well.

 

[chief38]

My understanding is that the Babbitt Bar is to be used in cases of a minor adjustment to get POA = POI. I personally have not used one and would not use one for any sort of major adjustment.

Never owning or using one, I would think that where the barrel gets "adjusted" (moved) would be at the threaded connection into the frame. I'm thinking that "thread stretch" would allow the barrel to move one way or the other. I am also thinking a babbitt smack should be few and decisive as numerous and constant small blows would ruin the threads holding abilities by distorting the threads too much. That would be my assessment. Professional GS's might know better.

 

[Marksman]

I found the comment regarding adjusting something 1/10,000" interesting, to put that measurement in perspective a particle of dust measures 2/10,000". Most lack the capability to even measure to a 1/10,000".

 

[biku324]

We had a very used '50 Chevy 2-ton truck with a 6 cylinder engine built with babbitted rods. The soft metal required you to keep the oil topped off and rpms low. Sold it in '74 to a guy who didn't understand either he burned it up quickly.

Soft metal, indeed.

 

[2152hq]

There are many things done in the gunsmithing trade regarding fitting parts that the average person would see as crude or in todays language..'Bubba'.. if witnessed in person.
Especially if being performed on the owners gun in front of them.

A lot of the techniques were and some still are in use in the factories. Though with the use of robotic assembly and closer final fit of parts, much of it is not needed anymore on new stuff.

But when not so new and older assemblies needed to be put together, ways to do it in a factory setting quickly and efficiently.
This just one of the tools they used.

Another seemingly heavy handed straightening method was in use (not involving the bash-em bar) when assembling tube feed .22rf rifles.

The Innermag tube must slide smoothly in and out of the Outer mag tube.
Simple enough.
So with the two components in hand what to do during factory assembly (or even Gunsmith Repair/Replacement) when they slide together,but just barely. It takes some effort to make them slide together and they even can get jammed/stuck inside one another.

Bending the tubes by hand after sighting down them to see the bends however slight they are is one way. It can get you some results, but it can usually make things worse. Kinks in the tubes is real possibility especially with the outer tube.
You're on piece work in the factory so lets get going...

What did they do?

Slide / push both tubes together no matter how difficult they assemble.
Lock the inner into the outer tube, if you can even turn them now.

Then on a cleared off section of your bench top, grasping the tube assembly by one end and just with the finger tips, by the sides of the tube assembly,,,raise the assembly about 1/2 way up shoulder high,,and then slap it flat down onto the bench top surface.
Like trying to slap a wooden ruler on a school desk to make that cracking noise. Flat onto the surface.

Try the assembly now and in many cases the assembly will slide smoothly in and out.
No more adjustment needed.
If a bit more Help is needed,,turn the assembly 180*,,perform the Slap-Happy&Crack exercise one more time and you should be all done.

Smoothest running mag tube assembly the Factory ever put on. Just like the rest of them.

I can still hear that sound out on the assembly floor and in the Repair Shop.
Fixes old ones up in Repair to like new running condition as well.

Just don't do this on a customer's charming old rifle that was Great Grampa's while the customer is still standing there.

 

[oldbrownhat]

I found the comment regarding adjusting something 1/10,000" interesting, to put that measurement in perspective a particle of dust measures 2/10,000". Most lack the capability to even measure to a 1/10,000".

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