Cleanest Powder for Loading HBWC (?)

oldfella

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I am new a this - I am reloading 148 Gr. HBWC, I've tried Bullseye and TiteGroup (2.8 gr.), both seem on the "dirty" side. I would like to find the cleanest burning powder possible, your suggestions/recommendations are welcome. Thanks.

Pete
 
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My strong suggestion is to use either Bullseye or HP38/Win231 (same powder) for your light WC loads. They are the favorites for good reason.
While you can use Titegroup, I don't recommend it for these light lead loads. I use it a lot in higher pressure jacketed loads like 9mm 124gr FMJ.
Now, about the fouling: get over it. It is loose and easily cleaned, and it happens because the pressures are low, and some of it is bullet lube. At those low pressures, you're already using one of the best powders, and you are going to get some residue with any powder made. At higher pressures, like my +P .38 load, HP38 seems very clean in comparison to the same powder in a WC load.
 
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"I am new at this", remember? I am not complaining, but merely making an observation. "Get over it" seems to be out of place in this case.:rolleyes:

Pete
 
"I am new at this", remember? I am not complaining, but merely making an observation. "Get over it" seems to be out of place in this case.:rolleyes:

Pete
Sorry, it wasn't mean as derogatory. It's a commonly used expression around here simply meaning something like "live with it" or "it's just part of it."
People that visit this part of the state in summer say they liike it except for the heat, and we say "get over it" meaning that's just the way it is.
 
Try a handful of loads using Unique. That will help you put your idea of 'dirty' into better perspective.

Bullseye & 231 are classic wadcutter propellants.
 
Try 2.9 grains of VihtaVuori (? sp) N320 under that wadcutter. That is by far the cleanest powder I have ever used, and works like a charm in my Model 52.
 
Try WST- Winchester Super Target. It meters well, and I generally go 1200 rounds between cleanings with hotter loads, but YMMV with the lighter stuff.

Most of the "dirty" loads are from using soft lead bullets and various gummy lubes. The powder isn't usually the problem.
 
Thanks for your responses, folks - I now understand a bit more about the true reasons for "dirty", having to do more with the type of bullet and its treatment than the powder itself. I am in the experimental phases, I'll be carefully tweaking and testing my reloads as I gain experience. Your input is much appreciated.

Pete
 
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I found by bumping up my .38 wadcutter load to 3.0 grains of Bullseye that I had less powder residue and the cases were cleaner as well (sealing up properly).

I've also had good luck with 231 in .38 Special, mostly with 158 grain SWC bullets. As for the WST, it is all I currently use in .40 and it is very clean in that application.
 
The only reason IMO, to use a hbwc over a standard wc is accuracy. For that reason I stick with Bullseye. It does the job for me.
 
A big second for 2.7-2.8 grains of Bullseye and a HBWC. Easily the most accurate load I have in any caliber. Might be a little dirty, but that really doesn't bother me.
 
I mentioned in another thread that I've loaded 50 bazillion rounds of 38 Spl 148gr HBWC over the past 35 years. My first priority is accuracy, but as a clean-freak that dislikes cleaning guns, my second priority is cleanliness. To this end I have experimented with dozens of powders and bullets over the years. Cleanliness-wise, I've never been able to see a lot of difference between various brands of swaged HBWC bullets, no matter what type of lube is used. Powder choice definitely does make a big difference though. To make a long story short, the currently available powders that are cleanest burning in these type loads are VV N310, VV N320 and WW WST, in that order. People note that the VV powders are more expensive than other powders, which is true on it's face. However, if you take the price per pound and divide it by the amount of loads that you get per pound (approx 2400-2500 in this case) and the few dollar per pound price difference becomes quite small.
 
No one has mentioned "Clays" yet. My favorite for accurate and reasonably clean 38 and 45 target loads.
 
I am new a this - I am reloading 148 Gr. HBWC, I've tried Bullseye and TiteGroup (2.8 gr.), both seem on the "dirty" side. I would like to find the cleanest burning powder possible, your suggestions/recommendations are welcome. Thanks.

Pete
W231/HP-38 is the cleanest powder I've used for the .38 Special. It will add very little to the "dirt" caused by the bullet lube.

To test how clean a powder really is in your chosen caliber try loading that powder with a FMJ bullet. Since the bullet will add nothing to the "mess" you can judge the powder.

I use mostly W231 for my handgun calibers and I find it works well over a wide pressure range. (although most powder will be at least a little dirty on the lower end of the pressure range)
 
HBWC Powder

I started with Bullseye, used American Select for awhile I believe it to be much cleaner but I think it is tougher to meter.
My new favorite is Titegroup the one you have had issue with.
I am starting to think that pressure might be the biggest variable here, although Titegroup seems to have the lowest pressure in my book for a
certain velocity.
I have started using Berrys plated most of the time in a HBWC I run them up to about 900 fps and they are as clean as a whistle, they may not be as accurate but I have to believe I am the biggest variable as I can usually
stick most of them in same hole as far out as I can see well, which is not very far.
This is with either a Model 14 or a Model 52, but I really like them in the 52
I have never understood everyones excitement with mouse fart loads, I can not tell any real difference, its nice to be so average sometimes !!!
 
Another vote for Clays. Burns clean even at low pressure. Many of the others mentioned here are pretty clean at higher charge weights, but when downloaded for target rounds become dirty.
 
Pete, nothing is going to be clean when lead is involved.
Fast burning powders are the answer. Bullseye or faster.
If you use anything other than Bullseye, I would say use Clays.
Clays is a very clean burning powder, I just will NOT use it in any semi-auto rounds.

Pressure curve is very steep so be careful when you use it and follow loading data explicitly.

Best to you! :)
 
The way I see it, I have to clean my gun no matter which powder I use. So I don't worry about "clean(er)" powders. I used to though.
Personally, I use 2.3gr B.E. over HBWC or DEWC. both shoot the same for me...VERY WELL!
I used to use 2.4gr Titegroup, but B.E. works much better for me.
 
Sorry but that story about having to clean your guns anyway is getting a little old. Sure it doesn't matter once you get home but the soot and dirt can cause problems at the range. Besides getting all over the gun, your hands and even your face sometimes the soot can cause a problem when shooting. It's not all about cleaning the gun, it's about enjoying your range time.
 
I did forget about another powder you could try, WST. Another clean or complete burning powder when loaded on the light side.
 
I agree that the crud is most likely lead and bullet lube. If you are using Remington lead bullets, they are particularly nasty. It appears they use graphite or something similar as a lube. My experience with cast bullets has been that your gun and your hands will get dirty loading and shooting them. If that isn't suitable, I'd suggest springing for jacketed, or at least plated bullets.
 
Pete, nothing is going to be clean when lead is involved.
Fast burning powders are the answer. Bullseye or faster.

When I returned to reloading, Skip said Bullseye was the most accurate powder for my .38 wadcutters. I load some BE now but switched primarily to W231. If I was shooting for money, however, or with friends for high score, there's no question I'd load with BE (I always have some on hand). And you have to clean your gun anyway so..........
 
Clays is the cleanest I have found. I wonder if bullet diameter plays a role in how dirty the load is. I used to shoot 2.4 gr of Clays with a Remington 148 HBWC (which are .358) and never noticed it being excessively dirty. Switched to 3.0 grains of HP38 with a Zero 148 HBWC (.357) and they were so dirty I was having trouble getting through a 1500 match. Switched to the same powder charge with Precision Delta 148 HBWC (also.357) and it got better but still is extremely dirty. Finally bought some more Remington's and will try them with the same powder charge to see if they shoot a little cleaner. If so I would be leaning towards the bullet diameter being my problem, not the powder. BTW, my gun is a custom PPC gun so my problem may be just the way my gun likes em! I just bought some Ramshot Silohuette powder on the cheap that I am going to try also.

Update!!! Now shooting 3.0 gr of HP38 with the Remington (.358) HBWC and this is a much (by leaps and bounds) cleaner load in my gun. I have tried the Silhouette Powder with a 130 gr. SWC (Mangus) and it shoots pretty clean too, but that load is pretty stout (to meet power factor) and I think those bullets are hard cast.
 
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148's leave a lot of residue in my opinion. I shot 700 of them today and here is what 350 of them with 2.8 grns of bullseye did to my diamondback:

dback_topstrap_blast_mark.jpg


Interesting little blast mark going there on the gun. It cleans right up but I that it was unique.

I just accept that remington 148 HBWC's are messy and tend to be dirty. While accurate, I did not see the uplift over just a standard 158 SWC.
 
I too recall Clays as being cleaner burning. It's harder to find in my area so I don't load much of it.

Trail Boss seems pretty clean too in moderate 45 loads.
 
Sorry but that story about having to clean your guns anyway is getting a little old. Sure it doesn't matter once you get home but the soot and dirt can cause problems at the range. Besides getting all over the gun, your hands and even your face sometimes the soot can cause a problem when shooting. It's not all about cleaning the gun, it's about enjoying your range time.

Well, getting a little dirty never kept me from having a good time at the range. ;)

Seriously, I shoot many hundreds of H&G 68s with 3.6 grains of Bullseye before I clean my wad gun and haven't had any malfunctions related to powder residue. Clean hands don't win matches. ;)
 
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