Cold Barrel Behavior? Consistent Accuracy?

[devisedbydev]

Hey folks,

Just joined and excited to be part of the group. So I have been shooting my MP 15-22 now for a few weeks. Added a La Rue trigger today which was a massive improvement.

Question for you? So I was hoping to be able to shoot near MOA with this rifle out to 100 yards but it seems impossible without some improvements. What is crazy to me is that the rifle always seems to shoot my 1st 3-5 rounds in random locations typically a good 4-5 inches from my target. But after I get a few rounds through the barrel, it shoots sub-MOA. Then the behavior repeats over and over again. Seems related to the barrell getting to a critical temperature.

I am running Federal Auto Match but the ammo type doesn't seem to have big influence.

I basically shoot my 1st ~4 rounds with a 4-5" random spread but then my last 16 or so shots will be within 1/2" groupings. Every new clip.

Anyone notice this?

 

[MajorD]

These rifles while fun are not precision instruments and getting moa accuracy out of one is a pipe dream.
Having said that, try better grade ammo. Auto match is relative junk as far as quality is concerned.
A decent quality standard velocity ammo ( if your gun will run it some do others don’t) is where to start.
Also frequent cleaning of the barrel is not recommended and a clean barrel will always ( except in very expensive high grade target guns) throw some errant shots before it gets a bit dirty and settles down

 

[Pubtym]

CCI Mini-mag ammo

CCI Try mini-mag copper plated round nose.

 

[WR Moore]

Some rifles will shoot the cold/clean bore shot in the group, others won't. Even with precision rifles. I've got one rifle that puts the CBS a given distance high, the second shot half that distance off and everything else where it's supposed to be. As some one noted above, the 15-22 isn't designed as a precision instrument.

If you want to shoot MOA at 100 yards, get a Ruger 10-22T, the BX trigger group and a very good scope.

BTW, I changed the stock on one rifle to a HS Precision stock. It'd shoot <MOA, but I never knew where the point of impact was gonna be.

 

[Kp321]

In addition to a good trigger, one of the best improvements is to buy a Tacticool barrel nut and mount a real AR free float tube.

 

[FlyTyinFool]

I had the same experience with my 15-22.
But it's so handy and fun to shoot, I just couldn't stop chasing accuracy.

Every rifle is different, so You'll need to find what works best for yours.
But here's where my efforts went...

The 1st thing I did was take the cosmetic round insert at the end of the foregrip out. That actually helped a little, especially with varying barrel temps. I tossed it after verifying improvement.

Next I followed the advice of some folks that said the barrel/handguard nut could be loose. I checked it. It wasn't loose. I reseated it to spec anyway, just to check that box off. No improvement.

Next, I replaced the trigger group. I think the first one was CMMC brand. Later I installed a Rise trigger group, but only because I wanted adjustable trigger pull weight. Both were big improvements over the stock trigger.

Next, I purchased 20+ brands and types of 22lr ammo. Before this I'd had my most consistent results from CCI Standard Velocity.
At the end of controlled testing (cold barrel, warm, hot, clean barrel, dirty barrel, hot days, cold days, sub-sonic, Mini Mag, and on, and on, and on...) I landed back on the same ammo, CCI Standard Velocity.
To be fair, 22lr just doesn't have the quality and consistency a marksman is looking for. More money usually gets you better quality in this caliber, but no guarantee. I'm just not willing to spend 20+ cents a round for my varmint hunting and plinking.

After all that I was still getting inconsistency with the first 1-4 rounds. Then it would settle in for about 20 to 40 rounds. Then it would drop off again.

I worked diligently on my cleaning routine, trying to find the sweet spot for accuracy. I tried full wet swabbing with various cleaners, to just using a bore brush without any solvent. Dry swabbing every 10 rounds, to brush only every 10-15 rounds. And I also tried various levels of cleaning for the bolt face and barrel face (where the bolt meets the barrel).

No matter what, I still had inconsistency with the first 1-5 rounds, then good for 20-40, and then back to inconsistency and flyers.

It seemed to be related to barrel temp. Since this a squirrel/rabbit getter, firing a few "seasoning rounds" before aiming at my quarry really wasn't an option. I wanted to just grab the rifle, step outside, and take my shot. Or walk through the woods and take a shot when the opportunity arose.

By this point I was 7,500 rounds into ownership. I knew the rifle. I knew it's behavior. I knew I couldn't rely on an inch left on first round, inch up, inch down... You get the idea. Just inconsistent until 3+ rounds went through the cold barrel.

I really enjoy the light weight and easy handling of the 15-22 for my wanders in the woods and varmint control around the house. I was researching other platforms to replace the 15-22 when I decided I'd take one more radical step, before retiring it to plinking duty.

I purchased a Volquartsen replacement barrel at a reasonable price (much less than a replacement rifle). That was the magic!!!

I fired 75 rounds to season the barrel, using 5 rounds each of 15 different ammos. I cleaned the barrel and settled in to run the 20+ brands/types to find which worked best.

Here's the joke... CCI Standard Velocity was still the most consistent! But now I was getting consistent 3/4 MOA (really!). No more flyers! No more cold/warm barrel variances! And far less variance between ammo brands/types. (Disclaimer: 22lr is still inexpensive, low-quality, plinking ammo. So flyers are going to happen)

So, I'll second what others have said. Out of the box, the 15-22 is simply incapable of consistency and <MOA groups. Even with the usual modifications, it still won't group reliably. I know that folks are going to weigh-in with what a "tack driver" theirs is at 100 yards. I call BS on 98% of them!

It's a shame that such an expensive option is the only way to get it to hit consistently because it's really such a wonderful plinker and little game getter. But I'm happy with it!

So, there's my experience and assessment. I understand the OP's frustration. It's real.


Carry on...

 

[rockquarry]

I don't know how many .22 ammos I've tried in many handguns and rifles over many years, but unless you want to spend a lot for true match ammo, CCI-SV is hard to beat. It hasn't been the most accurate in all guns, but overall, it's been more accurate in a wide variety of handguns and rifles than any other ammo I've found. Initially, I like to fire 5, 5-shot groups at fifty yards for rifles and the same at twenty-five yards for handguns, always from a solid benchrest with a sturdy rifle or handgun rest and bags. Then I fire more groups.

After using CCI-SV for many years and buying it by the case of 5,000, I encountered my first (and only) CCI-SV that failed to fire on the first pull of the trigger about three years ago. Try many ammos in search of what groups best and functions best in your gun(s), but it's a good idea to include CCI-SV. You'll probably avoid the bulk junk ammo after doing so.

 

[Pubtym]

These rifles while fun are not precision instruments and getting moa accuracy out of one is a pipe dream.
Having said that, try better grade ammo. Auto match is relative junk as far as quality is concerned.
A decent quality standard velocity ammo ( if your gun will run it some do others don’t) is where to start.
Also frequent cleaning of the barrel is not recommended and a clean barrel will always ( except in very expensive high grade target guns) throw some errant shots before it gets a bit dirty and settles down

Reading the manual and my experience..I have never seen or heard of a dirty barrel improving accuracy. The manual recommends cleaning the barrel as routine maintenance.

 

[nksmfamjp]

My only advice is that CCI SV seems to be reliably accurate in my 22’s.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I don't know how many .22 ammos I've tried in many handguns and rifles over many years, but unless you want to spend a lot for true match ammo, CCI-SV is hard to beat. It hasn't been the most accurate in all guns, but overall, it's been more accurate in a wide variety of handguns and rifles than any other ammo I've found. Initially, I like to fire 5, 5-shot groups at fifty yards for rifles and the same at twenty-five yards for handguns, always from a solid benchrest with a sturdy rifle or handgun rest and bags. Then I fire more groups.

After using CCI-SV for many years and buying it by the case of 5,000, I encountered my first (and only) CCI-SV that failed to fire on the first pull of the trigger about three years ago. Try many ammos in search of what groups best and functions best in your gun(s), but it's a good idea to include CCI-SV. You'll probably avoid the bulk junk ammo after doing so.

After trying many brands I settled into nothing but CII SV. Like you, I buy it by the 5000 rd case. I have a rifle that will shoot 1 MOA (CZ 455 bolt) so it's not hard to nail it down. Eliminate the sub par rifle barrel and work on finding acceptable ammo.

With a .223 rifle I find the heat factor works in reverse. I have/had several that lost accuracy, not precision, after 10 rds and the barrel warmed up. But then those cartridges generate a lot more heat than a .22 LR with higher velocity. The best shooters are heavy barreled rifles that don't get hot. Just too much mass there to overheat. If the barrel will burn your hand it's too hot and some will easily do that. I've noticed some after market 10-22 barrels are much heavier than original barrels. There might be an after market barrel for a 15-22, IDK.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Reading the manual and my experience..I have never seen or heard of a dirty barrel improving accuracy. The manual recommends cleaning the barrel as routine maintenance.

The jury is still out on that. Some very good precision rifle shooters don't clean their barrels very often. They win matches with dirty barrels.

 

[Pubtym]

These rifles while fun are not precision instruments and getting moa accuracy out of one is a pipe dream.
Having said that, try better grade ammo. Auto match is relative junk as far as quality is concerned.
A decent quality standard velocity ammo ( if your gun will run it some do others don’t) is where to start.
Also frequent cleaning of the barrel is not recommended and a clean barrel will always ( except in very expensive high grade target guns) throw some errant shots before it gets a bit dirty and settles down

After 300rds of CCI Mini mag copper plated round nose ammo, I am getting consistent dime sized groups at 25 yds.
I clean the gun with CLP and the barrel with a bore snake after each range visit. My bi-pod is the barrel mounted CCOP. My scope is the Hammers 3-9X32A0 ($80 on Amazon). I disagree about "not frequently cleaning the barrel".

 

[Pubtym]

The jury is still out on that. Some very good precision rifle shooters don't clean their barrels very often. They win matches with dirty barrels.

After 300rds of CCI Mini mag copper plated round nose ammo, I am getting consistent dime sized groups at 25 yds.
I clean the gun with CLP and the barrel with a bore snake after each range visit. My bi-pod is the barrel mounted CCOP. My scope is the Hammers 3-9X32A0 ($80 on Amazon). I disagree about "not frequently cleaning the barrel".

 

[Pubtym]

After 300rds of CCI Mini mag copper plated round nose ammo, I am getting consistent dime sized groups at 25 yds.
I clean the gun with CLP and the barrel with a bore snake after each range visit. My bi-pod is the barrel mounted CCOP. My scope is the Hammers 3-9X32A0 ($80 on Amazon). I disagree about "not frequently cleaning the barrel".

I had the same experience with my 15-22.
But it's so handy and fun to shoot, I just couldn't stop chasing accuracy.

Every rifle is different, so You'll need to find what works best for yours.
But here's where my efforts went...

The 1st thing I did was take the cosmetic round insert at the end of the foregrip out. That actually helped a little, especially with varying barrel temps. I tossed it after verifying improvement.

Next I followed the advice of some folks that said the barrel/handguard nut could be loose. I checked it. It wasn't loose. I reseated it to spec anyway, just to check that box off. No improvement.

Next, I replaced the trigger group. I think the first one was CMMC brand. Later I installed a Rise trigger group, but only because I wanted adjustable trigger pull weight. Both were big improvements over the stock trigger.

Next, I purchased 20+ brands and types of 22lr ammo. Before this I'd had my most consistent results from CCI Standard Velocity.
At the end of controlled testing (cold barrel, warm, hot, clean barrel, dirty barrel, hot days, cold days, sub-sonic, Mini Mag, and on, and on, and on...) I landed back on the same ammo, CCI Standard Velocity.
To be fair, 22lr just doesn't have the quality and consistency a marksman is looking for. More money usually gets you better quality in this caliber, but no guarantee. I'm just not willing to spend 20+ cents a round for my varmint hunting and plinking.

After all that I was still getting inconsistency with the first 1-4 rounds. Then it would settle in for about 20 to 40 rounds. Then it would drop off again.

I worked diligently on my cleaning routine, trying to find the sweet spot for accuracy. I tried full wet swabbing with various cleaners, to just using a bore brush without any solvent. Dry swabbing every 10 rounds, to brush only every 10-15 rounds. And I also tried various levels of cleaning for the bolt face and barrel face (where the bolt meets the barrel).

No matter what, I still had inconsistency with the first 1-5 rounds, then good for 20-40, and then back to inconsistency and flyers.

It seemed to be related to barrel temp. Since this a squirrel/rabbit getter, firing a few "seasoning rounds" before aiming at my quarry really wasn't an option. I wanted to just grab the rifle, step outside, and take my shot. Or walk through the woods and take a shot when the opportunity arose.

By this point I was 7,500 rounds into ownership. I knew the rifle. I knew it's behavior. I knew I couldn't rely on an inch left on first round, inch up, inch down... You get the idea. Just inconsistent until 3+ rounds went through the cold barrel.

I really enjoy the light weight and easy handling of the 15-22 for my wanders in the woods and varmint control around the house. I was researching other platforms to replace the 15-22 when I decided I'd take one more radical step, before retiring it to plinking duty.

I purchased a Volquartsen replacement barrel at a reasonable price (much less than a replacement rifle). That was the magic!!!

I fired 75 rounds to season the barrel, using 5 rounds each of 15 different ammos. I cleaned the barrel and settled in to run the 20+ brands/types to find which worked best.

Here's the joke... CCI Standard Velocity was still the most consistent! But now I was getting consistent 3/4 MOA (really!). No more flyers! No more cold/warm barrel variances! And far less variance between ammo brands/types. (Disclaimer: 22lr is still inexpensive, low-quality, plinking ammo. So flyers are going to happen)

So, I'll second what others have said. Out of the box, the 15-22 is simply incapable of consistency and <MOA groups. Even with the usual modifications, it still won't group reliably. I know that folks are going to weigh-in with what a "tack driver" theirs is at 100 yards. I call BS on 98% of them!

It's a shame that such an expensive option is the only way to get it to hit consistently because it's really such a wonderful plinker and little game getter. But I'm happy with it!

So, there's my experience and assessment. I understand the OP's frustration. It's real.


Carry on...