Concealed carry and fast draw.

Will Carry

Will Carry

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Am I the only guy who does this? I think not....:D

I practice drawing my EDCs in front of a mirror (after unloading and triple checking). The problem was I have around 8 handguns that I can carry concealed. So I had a competition to see which one was the best. The best meaning most reliable to draw and fire as fast as I can safely. What I found was that some of my big fat high capacity pistols (Bavarian Bricks) were more difficult to grab. "Grab the gun first and when you have control of the weapon pull it out of the holster." There were instances when I would fail to have control before I pulled. Leading to a dropped weapon or a bad grip, perhaps.

What I found doing this was, besides learning not to rush your draw, was that my most diminutive handgun was the quickest to draw and had the surest grip. A handgun I bought because I felt sorry for it. (nobody was buying it). A S&W model 36 from the 1970s with the square butt grip. I did not want to believe this so I did the test again and again, with the same result.

I then started taking it to the range every time I went until I was comfortable with it. Now I carry it all the time and I keep my bricks in the safe.
 
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There are a lot of skills that can be learned/maintained with a dry practice regimen. I do 2-3 dry practice sessions per week. Each lasts only about 15 min. This week is j frame speed strip loads. FWIW, bad habits and less than ideal techniques can become ingrained that way also.
 
I was always taught to practice my draw slowly by the numbers.

I had a job where I spent my entire shift walking a fence line in the dark so I would walk along and do my 4 count draw and reholster by the numbers. I probably did it 100 times a night.

Long story short, one night I was walking the fence and I spooked an antelope in the dark. It jumped up ran right by me and hopped an 8 foot fence with barb wire on top like I would walk over a little garden fence

I drew with out even thinking because of muscle memory
 
What's the saying? " Slow is smooth and smooth is fast "
I concentrate on the technique and let speed dictate itself.
It will get faster on its own. I really try not to even think about how fast it is, but more on how precise it is.
 
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I don't spend nearly the time I should on drawing, but I end or start each range session with a short defensive drill (I'm fortunate enough to have a range that is usually empty, and I can pretty much do what I'd like.)

I start at arms-length from a torso-type target, then push off with my left hand, and draw and fire with my right as I move away. In my pea-brain, that is how I picture a "typical" defensive shooting that requires a fast draw. It's eye-opening to see how much harder it is to draw when your feet are moving, as opposed to standing square to the target.

I always hope that with situational awareness, if it's not at bad breath distance, there won't be a need for a quick draw. Here's to hoping that I never find out.
 
I dry practice my draw and first shot as well as mag changes, with both duty gear and concealed carry gear. Makes a big difference during quals/training and also for IDPA, and I assume it would also make a difference in a real situation, as well.
 
I also have several guns I carry from time to time ... and was a little surprised when a friend who has been in gun fights and has had training all the way through the CIA "farm", expressed reservations. His "issued" pistol is a Glock 19 ... and that's all he shoots...except for other Glocks.

I was carrying a 3913 and we had been target shooting at some distance and I was pleased to see that past 15 yards I was beating him. Then we started drawing and firing for speed... and here is where the problem happened. I frequently carry a Kahr PM9 or a Glock. When I carry the 3913, I use the safety ... it only takes a micro second to wipe. Problem was ... twice I forgot to wipe the safety. My friend would have had 3 bullets in me by then.

Since then I enjoy shooting all my guns ... but only carry two, a PM9 when I might need a gun and a LCP when I'm sure I won't...
 
Ross Siefried practiced his presentation over 100,000 times before winning the IPSC wold championship.

I had the privilege of watching him shoot in competition in those years.

He didn't seem fast: but he beat everyone.

By the numbers is best.

No rush: just deliberate.

Most folks don't have the facility to practice presentation live.

Learning to present one firearm effectively is a full time job.

Trying to do it with 10 different handguns is silly.

Pick your handgun and learn to use it.

Folks who 'rotate' lots of handguns can't be competent with all, or most, or probably any.

Just my opinion, of course.
 
obxshooter said:
I also have several guns I carry from time to time ... and was a little surprised when a friend who has been in gun fights and has had training all the way through the CIA "farm", expressed reservations. His "issued" pistol is a Glock 19 ... and that's all he shoots...except for other Glocks.

I was carrying a 3913 and we had been target shooting at some distance and I was pleased to see that past 15 yards I was beating him. Then we started drawing and firing for speed... and here is where the problem happened. I frequently carry a Kahr PM9 or a Glock. When I carry the 3913, I use the safety ... it only takes a micro second to wipe. Problem was ... twice I forgot to wipe the safety. My friend would have had 3 bullets in me by then.

Since then I enjoy shooting all my guns ... but only carry two, a PM9 when I might need a gun and a LCP when I'm sure I won't...
Click to expand...

Just curious, why did you feel the need to use the safety on the 3913. Years back I carried a 3913 off duty and a 5906 on duty and out department standard was to use the safety only as a decocker and leave the safety off, just for the reason you stated as we had recently transitioned from revolvers.
 
Over the years I've known a lot of people who carry defensive sidearms, many of them using multiple handguns and carry methods, changing frequently. During my early years as a cop everybody had at least one "duty gun" and at least one "off duty gun", many changing those around a lot.

I've also been through quite a bit of training, some of it very good and some not so good.

Here is what I have come to believe:

1. Same gun, every day.
2. Same holster, every day.
3. Same carry position, every day.
4. For concealed carry use similar cover garments, every day.
5. Regular practice, including draw, shooting, reloading, stoppage drills.
6. Holster must be a close fit to the belt, eliminating shifting of the holstered handgun as much as possible.
7. A fast draw is rather meaningless unless you have a correct and solid grip on the pistol and can immediately engage a target.

When the need for defensive action arises I don't want to have to stop and think 'Which gun am I carrying?', 'Where is my gun?', 'Is the safety engaged?', or anything else beyond following my training and practice routines.

My $0.02 worth. YMMV.
 
LoboGunLeather said:
Over the years I've known a lot of people who carry defensive sidearms, many of them using multiple handguns and carry methods, changing frequently. During my early years as a cop everybody had at least one "duty gun" and at least one "off duty gun", many changing those around a lot.

I've also been through quite a bit of training, some of it very good and some not so good.

Here is what I have come to believe:

1. Same gun, every day.
2. Same holster, every day.
3. Same carry position, every day.
4. For concealed carry use similar cover garments, every day.
5. Regular practice, including draw, shooting, reloading, stoppage drills.
6. Holster must be a close fit to the belt, eliminating shifting of the holstered handgun as much as possible.
7. A fast draw is rather meaningless unless you have a correct and solid grip on the pistol and can immediately engage a target.

When the need for defensive action arises I don't want to have to stop and think 'Which gun am I carrying?', 'Where is my gun?', 'Is the safety engaged?', or anything else beyond following my training and practice routines.

My $0.02 worth. YMMV.
Click to expand...

[Sidebar] Lobo...you commented on a different thread that storing a gun in a leather holster allowed moisture from the holster to rust the gun. Does that apply to "rough exterior" (Galco) type as well? Thanks.
 
I agree with Lobo to a point, I limit myself to only carrying similar guns. Until very recently I only ever carried third gen S&Ws. A 6906 in the summer and a 4006 in the winter, a couple of weeks ago I added an M&P Shield to the rotation as my at home gun.

I also have decided that when I get a chance to do any training I'm only ever going to take one of those three guns to the class

Oddly enough I occasionally find myself looking for the decock lever on the M&P when I load it but that's not something that's going to give me a brain fart if I ever have to shoot it.

.
 
The M&P is my best presenting gun next to my Sig p220. I have no idea what makes them great other than they feel very at home in the hand. I wish they both came in 10mm. I have practiced drawing both and the reality is when the flat out speed is turned on they index well and the sights are lined up when the gun comes into the focal plane. That's the sort of weapon I want to carry.
 
I just spent a week in the Happiest Place on Earth, and never carried the whole week, something I only do about every three or four years. I decided a long time ago that your carry gun should be so automatic that you forget you're wearing it, except when you're not and you freak for a second and wonder where you left it . . .
 
Protected One said:
[Sidebar] Lobo...you commented on a different thread that storing a gun in a leather holster allowed moisture from the holster to rust the gun. Does that apply to "rough exterior" (Galco) type as well? Thanks.
Click to expand...

All leather articles have a tendency to absorb and retain moisture, whether it be from the atmosphere or from perspiration. Oxidation (rust) is a function of moisture and temperature, with higher moisture content and higher temperatures resulting in greater oxidation.

Whether a holster has a "rough exterior" or smooth exterior means nothing. Assuming both holsters are leather they will behave similarly; i.e.: collect and retain moisture.

There are several different types of leather, depending on the method of tanning. Leather used for holsters is usually vegetable tanned, using the tannins of bark from trees in water solution to cure the hide. Other methods include brain tanning (each critter's brain is assumed to contain sufficient material to cure its own hide), chrome tanning (metallic chemical salts), and old fashioned dung and urine tanning (earliest known recycling programs were in towns with tanneries, crews went around collecting everyone's "night soil" for use at the tannery).

Some of these leather types are worse than others for holster use. I personally wouldn't want to wear anything next to my body produced with "night soil". All soft leathers, including suede, are chrome-tanned and contain residual chemical salts that can be very corrosive (even "stainless steel" can be etched and eroded by these salts).

I will stand by my advice in other posts. Remove your handgun from the holster at the end of each day's use, wipe it down with an oily rag or silicone treated cloth, and store the holster away from the handgun in an area with sufficient airflow to allow residual moisture to evaporate away naturally.

Best regards.
 
LoboGunLeather said:
All leather articles have a tendency to absorb and retain moisture, whether it be from the atmosphere or from perspiration. Oxidation (rust) is a function of moisture and temperature, with higher moisture content and higher temperatures resulting in greater oxidation.

Whether a holster has a "rough exterior" or smooth exterior means nothing. Assuming both holsters are leather they will behave similarly; i.e.: collect and retain moisture.

There are several different types of leather, depending on the method of tanning. Leather used for holsters is usually vegetable tanned, using the tannins of bark from trees in water solution to cure the hide. Other methods include brain tanning (each critter's brain is assumed to contain sufficient material to cure its own hide), chrome tanning (metallic chemical salts), and old fashioned dung and urine tanning (earliest known recycling programs were in towns with tanneries, crews went around collecting everyone's "night soil" for use at the tannery).

Some of these leather types are worse than others for holster use. I personally wouldn't want to wear anything next to my body produced with "night soil". All soft leathers, including suede, are chrome-tanned and contain residual chemical salts that can be very corrosive (even "stainless steel" can be etched and eroded by these salts).

I will stand by my advice in other posts. Remove your handgun from the holster at the end of each day's use, wipe it down with an oily rag or silicone treated cloth, and store the holster away from the handgun in an area with sufficient airflow to allow residual moisture to evaporate away naturally.

Best regards.
Click to expand...
I use both chrome tan and veg. tan leather. I don't like to keep the chrome tan even in the same room as the veg tan for that very reason.
 
Settle on one CCW and stick with it. You can't develop muscle memory and instinctive handling of your weapon if you keep switching.
 
CTI1USNRET said:
Settle on one CCW and stick with it. You can't develop muscle memory and instinctive handling of your weapon if you keep switching.
Click to expand...

Disagree, if you stay within the same platform you shouldn't have a problem.

I don't notice any difference between my 2 third gens.
 
For the majority of my LEO career I carried a Government Model Colt in 45 ACP. My off-duty weapon was a Commander (the original alloy version) set up exactly like the duty gun. Only difference in carry was the GM was carried in field gear while the Commander was carried IWB, but both were in the same position and at the same angle.

When I retired and didn't carry the GM any more I still competed in practical shooting matches with a GM and still carried the Commander. That went on for over 10 years.

Because of arthritis I can no longer consistently operate the thumb safety or handle the frame pounding my swollen knuckle. I've switched to Glocks and follow much the same idea as before. I have a G30 for carry and a new G41 for range. Same trigger, same operating system and same basic grip with both.

Dave
 
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Several here have mentioned, "drawing by the numbers" but none have said what those numbers are. So, here's a tutorial:
  1. Shooting hand gets a good firing grip on the gun. Support hand goes to mid section.
  2. Gun is drawn straight up until the muzzle just clears the holster.
  3. Shooting hand elbow is pivoted down which rotates the gun muzzle toward bad guy. Shot may be taken from here if necessary.
  4. Gun moves straight forward toward target, safety off. Support hand meets shooting hand getting the proper support grip.
  5. Gun is pressed straight out toward target. Finger on trigger with slack out. Sight alignment and sight picture are obtained.
This is how I do it and how I teach it. Some may do it differently and I welcome the discussion.

The goal here is not a fast draw. Rather, it's about precision and being able to ensure a good grip witch means good hits.
 
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Not a big fan of fast draw. More a fan of deliberate draw. Less chance of a hole in my leg. Like Wyatt Earp said, "Fast is fine, but accurate's final."
 
Numbers question....

Several here have mentioned, "drawing by the numbers" but none have said what those numbers are. So, here's a tutorial:

1. Shooting hand gets a good firing grip on the gun. Support hand goes to mid section.

2. Gun is drawn straight up until the muzzle just clears the holster.

3. Shooting hand elbow is pivoted down which rotates the gun muzzle toward bad guy. Shot may be taken from here if necessary.

4. Gun moves straight forward toward target, safety off. Support hand meets shooting hand getting the proper support grip.


Just out of curiosity....if wearing a light cover garment (button up shirt, etc...) where does that fit on the number line?

Lad
 
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