Convert 32-20 to 32 H&R

[Hondo44]

Hello Jim
Well, They aint Makin Em any More, and never will again so I guess if you are lucky enough to see one you had better jump on it or you will not have one... Life is far Too short to go without the Toy's we want while we are Here....

Amen to that. truer words were never spoken.

 

[brick]

I was looking to make a convertible so that I could have a poor mans k32. I already shoot 32 short and long from a pre31 and I wanted to shoot them from a K frame. I don't know if I have to worry about the strength of the 32-20 frame and barrel when shooting 32 mag from a modified cylinder.

 

[Hammerdown]

Comparing Apples to oranges the 32-20 Versus the .32 H&R Magnum Cartridge

I was looking to make a convertible so that I could have a poor mans k32. I already shoot 32 short and long from a pre31 and I wanted to shoot them from a K frame. I don't know if I have to worry about the strength of the 32-20 frame and barrel when shooting 32 mag from a modified cylinder.

Hello Brick
As I mentioned Earlier in this Thread, I would not advise converting an Older 32-20 into the H&R .32 Magnum. The SAAMI Pressure chart's show the 32-20 to be 16,000 CUP where as the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge is 21,000 CUP. Although this is not a Huge difference between the two different caliber's it is a very Noticeable difference when comparing the Two. The Older 32-20 cylinder's are "Not" Heat treated which mean's they may not take the pressure difference's in the two different Cartridges thus the gun may be destroyed if the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge is fired through it, Meaning frame wise, you would be placing a lot more pressure on it than what was Intended for it. Another Problem you would be faced with is you could not use the original 32-20 cylinder if you wanted to do a conversion as the 32-20 cartridge is a Bottle neck style casing where as the .32 H&R Magnum case is of straight wall case design, so to have a conversion one must have a new cylinder made and that will certainly Not be cheap or easy to locate one. Hamilton Bowen has made up some cylinder's in the .32 H&R Magnum as well as the new much Hotter Federal .327 Magnum but to do so the customer has to provide a cylinder if you want a blued carbon example and he commonly uses a K-22 cylinder, or can make one up out of stainless steel, and the cost of such a conversion would not warrant the need.





When comparing the ballistic's between the two different Cartridge's The "rifle Velocity" of the 32-20 Cartridge is roughly 1200 FPS. Now, when fired through a revolver we would see about 25% Less velocity leaving the 32-20 Cartridge at around 900 FPS. In viewing the .32 H&R Magnum Cartridge it has a Velocity of 1030-1090 FPS depending on what weight bullet is used. So in conclusion we see a very small difference between the two cartridges being exactly 130-190 FPS faster Velocity out of the .32 H&R Magnum Cartridge, which to me is not enough to warrant a caliber conversion consideration of having an extra cylinder made for the 32-20 revolver, or Taking a chance on spoiling a Good gun by doing so. Just my 2 Cent's here....



If you are looking for a super increase of the .32 round find your self a Vintage Model 16-4 S&W revolver and have it converted to the Much Hotter Federal .327 Magnum round like I did. I know they can be a challenge to find and average a Grand when you do find one but if Bowen has an existing .32 H&R Magnum cylinder to work with the conversion is simple and cheap at less than $100.00. All he has to do to convert the Model 16-4 cylinder to the Hotter Federal .327 Magnum Cartridge is Lengthen the throat's of the cylinder & Match them when he is done. Mine has seen Hundred's of round's down the barrel since Hamilton Bowen converted it, and the best round I have fired from it as far as accuracy, and Velocity goes has been using Accurate Arm's Powder with a Sierra Sport's Master 90 Grain Hollow Point bullet and CCI small Magnum Pistol primer, with a Heavy crimp.





This Load out of my S&W Model 16-4's 6" Barrel clocked an amazing 1630 FPS and the 6-shot result's are shown shot @ the 20 Yard range using this load. Make No Mistake the Federal .327 Magnum cartridge is a True Magnum level cartridge and is everything that the former .32 H&R Magnum should have been... The slug's were recovered from a soft Sand Berm behind the Target stand and show total wicked expansion for a 90 Grain Bullet. I don't just Punch Paper Target's with the Federal .327 Magnum round either, I had it converted to Hunt with as it has dropped a Large Bob-Cat out in the wood's that I shot with my S&W 16-4 @ 35 Yards shown below as well. This Bob-Cat is one of the Largest one's to be Harvested in the state of Tennessee as he weighed 41 Pound's dressed out, we suspect his live weight was in Excess of 50 Pounds and he was 41-1/2" In Length. I had it fully Mounted and it sit's in my den watching over me as I type these message's. I hope to get a chance to drop a nice Buck Deer with this caliber as I carry my S&W Model 16-4 on my deer hunt's tucked away in my Factory S&W shoulder Holster, awaiting a chance to some Day Bag a Buck with it.. I hope you find this information useful & Helpful.....Hammerdown

 

[Hondo44]

If you are looking for a super increase of the .32 round find your self a Vintage Model 16-4 S&W revolver and have it converted to the Much Hotter Federal .327 Magnum round like I did. I know they can be a challenge to find and average a Grand when you do find one but if Bowen has an existing .32 H&R Magnum cylinder to work with the conversion is simple and cheap at less than $100.00. All he has to do to convert the Model 16-4 cylinder to the Hotter Federal .327 Magnum Cartridge is Lengthen the throat's of the cylinder & Match them when he is done. Hammerdown

Hammerdown,
I'm sure you meant lengthen the chambers thus Shortening the throats.

 

[Gatorbaiter]

Here's a convertable, 32-20 HE with a factory fitted 32 Long cylinder numbered to the gun:

And here's a couple of Colt Detective Specials originally in 32 S&W Long converted to 32 Mag and 32-20:

And a S&W 632 32 Mag:

 

[Hondo44]

Here's a convertable, 32-20 HE with a factory fitted 32 Long cylinder numbered to the gun:

That is just the coolest convertible 32-20/32 S&W Long!! Is that a factory cleaning rod?

Thanks for showing that one in particular,

 

[peyton]

Thanks for showing those two beauties!!

 

[Gatorbaiter]

"Is that a factory cleaning rod?"

I believe so...it came in the box with the gun.

 

[peyton]

Kicking this thread up to the top.

 

[Green Frog]

Well peyton, you must be snowed in too, since you are trolling around in 18 month old threads... a little cabin fever there, pilgrim? In the time since this thread was last active, I have gotten the completed http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/260686-project-616-a.html in hand and feel like in many ways it is the ultimate version of a K-frame 32. It was built on a stainless magnum frame (Model 66) and used a new S&W factory cylinder (Model 617 - 22 LR) as its starting point, so pressures and heat treating were not an issue for me.

Getting back to the OP's question, however, I'm not sure I would want to subject a 90 year old frame (forget the cylinder issue) to the kind of pressures that a 327 FM round exerts. Even with "starting loads" it is a bit of a fire breather. I would probably limit a pre-War frame to using a new (read S&W factory or Hamilton Bowen blank) cylinder and 32 H&R semi-Magnum factory equivalent loadings, but that's just me. I've become increasing fond of my fingers, eyes, etc. as age progresses and my perceived immortality has seemed to disappear.

As for the use of the 32-20 as a "hot rod" round, I stick by my original statement that it does not load as easily nor last as long as the straight cylindrical cases of the S&W L, H&R and Fed Mag... it's still a semi-bottleneck and the case specs call for a relatively thin wall at that neck and there's not much you can do about it! The current crop of Starline Brass 32-20s are certainly better than what was offered in the 1920s, but the basic design parameters are still there, slope shoulder and thin neck walls.

I'm still thinking of building a more genteel K-frame 32, and to that end have acquired a very nice narrow rib K-22 barrel (early enough to have had the LERK) and K-22 cylinder to build a 6" K-32; all I need is the suitable K-38 "donor gun" to complete the project. I am torn between chambering it in 32 S&W Long, which is historically correct and will probably be what gets shot in it the most, or 32 H&R semi-Mag, which I am sure it will take nicely, but I have to wonder "Why bother?" The 327 Fed Mag has been eliminated from consideration on this one. Oh well, maybe something else will come along and take my attention from the whole... look, a squirrel!... thing. (Concentration was never one of my strengths. )

Froggie

 

[Muley Gil]

Nothing wrong about discussing .32s on the S&W Forum.

 

[Hammerdown]

Hi
I never mind re-visiting an old thread that Peak's my Interest as this one did and has due to my Deep affection of the .32 round. Sadly, with the much Higher SAMI pressure's of the Federal .327 magnum it must be Placed cautiously in any former .32 Caliber gun, it is Not a Plug and Play round it has wicked Case pressure behind it of an average of 45,0000 P.S.I. or more if Loaded hot. The S&W Model 16-4 remain's to be the Top Excellent choice gun to convert to the Federal .327 Magnum and I certainly have no Regret having mine converted by Hamilton Bowen. One thing I noticed most when my gun came back from him is how much more accurate it was Now. He carefully Match's the cylinder throat's when he does the caliber conversion & according to him that is key in accuracy. I can say that I have fired all Four round's in my 16-4 since getting it Converted by Hamilton Bowen being the .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum as well as the Much Hotter Federal .327 Magnum and it group's all four round's very tight if I do my part.

The Only Bad part is that these Model 16-4's have really Grown in collector Value so to get on board with owning one now one must lay North of a Grand out of your wallet to obtain one. Some of the serious collector's cringe at the thought of buying a Model 16-4 just to convert it's factory caliber of .32 H&R Magnum to The new much Hotter Federal .327 magnum but I sure was Not bothered by it as I had expanded all that I could with the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge and it did Not begin to compare to the velocity or Impact Punch, or Kinetic energy of the Federal .327 Magnum. In my Humble Opinion, The Federal .327 Magnum cartridge is everything that the Anemic .32 H&R Magnum should have been but Sadly Wasn't.... Regards, Hammerdown

 

[Hondo44]

Hammerdown,

Very well said. So far I have limited my 327 Mag conversions from 32 H&R to Ruger single actions. And have been very pleased, even sticking to just factory loadings or my handloaded equivalents.

With the half dozen conversions so far all but one being 32 H&R single sixes, I'm not pushing the load to Ruger Blackhawk size only loads. But haven't felt a need to.

In the one 32 H&R Blackhawk I've converted I can push the limit and experiment but because of the weight, it's not my go to field gun.

 

[Green Frog]

While this is a S&W Forum thread about the 32-20 and 32 H&R, we've had a little thread drift, an indication of what people want to do with their 32s. I've seen more than a few posts on this and other forums (fora?) saying how much someone wanted a big enough frame (read "K-frame Smith") to wring more performance out of the 32. Having had both K-frame Smiths and SA R-word Bl*ckh*wks in the caliber, I can confidently state that the potential is there, but as Hammerdown observes, you really have to pay to play these days, so you have to wonder whether it is worth it. For the true believer, I would say definitely yes. The reader must decide for himself whether he wants to make the commitment, though! That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Froggie

 

[Jebus35745]

I have a 32 PPC bbl and still toying with the idea of building a nice target revolver. The idea of a 4" heavy bbl gun is cool in my mind. I even have the model 17 to sacrifice for the project. It would have more purpose chambered in 327 but the 32 long is classic. Still have 32 mag brass in the basement so a 32 mag is not out of the question. Have 2 guns at Andy Horvath's right now so dropping the whole set up there is easy for me. I'm not sure I want to put the money out for making another 32 something. It always seems to add up to just north of a grand. I already have the 32 long made by Andy and it shoots great. Glad to see all the 32 nuts assembled again in a post. Are any of you going to Colombus this spring? Larry

 

[Green Frog]

I have a 32 PPC bbl and still toying with the idea of building a nice target revolver. The idea of a 4" heavy bbl gun is cool in my mind. I even have the model 17 to sacrifice for the project. It would have more purpose chambered in 327 but the 32 long is classic. Still have 32 mag brass in the basement so a 32 mag is not out of the question. Have 2 guns at Andy Horvath's right now so dropping the whole set up there is easy for me. I'm not sure I want to put the money out for making another 32 something. It always seems to add up to just north of a grand. I already have the 32 long made by Andy and it shoots great. Glad to see all the 32 nuts assembled again in a post. Are any of you going to Colombus this spring? Larry

Hey Larry,

I figured it was about time for you to chime in... welcome back to the fray! With regard to your 32 nuts reference, I'm thinking about how a bunch of writers and enthusiasts had that loosely united group called the "44 Associates" back in the day so they could brag to each other about their guns, loads and accomplishments and inspire envy among lesser mortals. Perhaps we should form such a group and call it "32s Unlimited" or some such.

What's your reference to Columbus? Is that another Ohio gathering of S&W folk, or is OGCA coming back that way, or what? Do you allow unreconstructed Rebels to attend? If you do, maybe I'll bring Project 616 and a couple of other suitable toys to play with.

As for building yet another 32, only you can decide whether you have "enough." I had thought about building a 32 caliber PPC-type gun when I saw that barrel come up at auction, and the idea still has some attraction. If you decide to abandon the project, how about giving me first refusal on the barrel since I had already planned to build a K-32 homage, maybe I could kill two birds with one stone! Now if I only could find some K-32 Jet Loaders™!

Regards,
Froggie

PS My "big brother" Dale53 over in Hamilton says his part of OH has had plenty of snow for ought-Fourteen. How is your part of the state doing?

 

[Hammerdown]

Hello
As I said in my earlier response to me the S&W Model 16-4 is the Most Logical solution of having a revolver chambered in the Federal .327 magnum Cartridge. If we look at the average cost of them now being a Grand or a little more I suppose it is not too Bad compared to The classic series of revolver's that S&W is now offering we are in the same ball park as far as out of Pocket expense. One thing I really like about the Model 16-4 is the full under Lug barrel. Back when mine was in Factory form of .32 H&R magnum caliber, I did not Notice much Muzzle Blast or Muzzle Jump when firing it. Now that it is chambered in Federal .327 Magnum I can clearly see much more Muzzle Blast and Muzzle jump but the additional weight of the Full Under Lug on it's barrel Keep's the gun pretty calm for quicker follow up shots.



I hate it that the S&W factory has not gone back to basic's by coming out with let's say a Model 16-5 Target Masterpiece Revolver and can't Understand it for the life of me why they haven't as I feel they would be back logged with order's for them. They all ready have the Carbon steel K-Frame Target revolver Platform needed to build such a Gun and they could utilize the vintage .32 H&R Magnum cylinder's by simply Punching them out to accept and fire the Federal .327 Magnum cartridge. Instead they came out with the cartridge in a J-frame platform considering the gun to be carried and used for self protection, which is fine but it Cut's the Throat's of us Guy's wanting a heavier Frame revolver such as the K-frame with adjustable sight's for serious target shooting or Better yet small game hunting. S&W is shooting Them self's in the foot by Not creating a Model 16-5 Federal .327 Magnum K-Frame Target Masterpiece revolver in my eye's.... Hammerdown

 

[Jebus35745]

I agree that Smith could sell a good amount of 327 K frame revolvers and probably renew interest in the 327. The annual SWCA meeting is in Columbus this year, I should be there. The NE Ohio bunch will be advertised March 1, it will be the first Sat in May. Been thinking of doing a Contender in 32 long with a 5 to 8 inch bbl for offhand shooting to scratch the 32 itch. I like the 32 associates idea cause this group helps answer questions on 32 subjects. Larry

 

[Green Frog]

Going from what Hammerdown said in post #57 above, here is an idea. Since Smith has just reintroduced the Model 66 in 357 Magnum, it would not be a very large manufacturing challenge to make the two piece barrel with a smaller (.313") bore and the cylinder with 327 FM chambers. How many of you would be willing to buy this "Model 616" at roughly the same price as the "New 66?" How many of you would be willing to pre-order such a beast from some company that does special orders? (Think "Ashland" or similar.) I guess I no longer have a dog in this fight as I got impatient and built my own, but this might be the perfect storm in view of the reintroduction of the 66 and the slowing of the panic buying of "black guns." I don't know how to do a poll on this forum, but maybe we could start one to that end??

Froggie

 

[Muley Gil]

Going from what Hammerdown said in post #57 above, here is an idea. Since Smith has just reintroduced the Model 66 in 357 Magnum, it would not be a very large manufacturing challenge to make the two piece barrel with a smaller (.313") bore and the cylinder with 327 FM chambers. How many of you would be willing to buy this "Model 616" at roughly the same price as the "New 66?" How many of you would be willing to pre-order such a beast from some company that does special orders? (Think "Ashland" or similar.) I guess I no longer have a dog in this fight as I got impatient and built my own, but this might be the perfect storm in view of the reintroduction of the 66 and the slowing of the panic buying of "black guns." I don't know how to do a poll on this forum, but maybe we could start one to that end??

Froggie

Sounds good to me.