Convict labor

[JcMack]

Since farmers seem to be suffering from lack of field workers and most certainly municipalities could use some help, why can't non violent prisoners be deployed. Do to the many civil rights afforded prisoners, forced labor would be out.

 

[charlie sherrill]

They already are, just not in the private sector. It's done mostly on a volunteer basis. Inmates would much rather work out in the "world" than sit in a cell. This also helps with behavior problems because the inmates don't want to lose their work "privaleges" and they sleep better after a days work rather than staying up all night causing trouble.

 

[JcMack]

They already are, just not in the private sector. It's done mostly on a volunteer basis. Inmates would much rather work out in the "world" than sit in a cell. This also helps with behavior problems because the inmates don't want to lose their work "privaleges" and they sleep better after a days work rather than staying up all night causing trouble.

I've seen local programs on a small scale like picking up garbage by the side of the road. Do you think a larger scale operation would be accepted by the private sector? As in farms that employ people that do jobs "no one else will do".

 

[Sebago Son]

Ceaser Chavez ain't gonna be pleased.

You'll be breaking his salad bowl ("You can't hurt me I'm picking in the Union!"). Unless the convicts are carrying UFW cards that is....

 

[JcMack]

I had an idea in mind for a specific state. Low and behold, I just looked it up and it may be in the works.

Georgia may use prisoners to fill farm labor gap

 

[tinkerer]

Quite possibly, farmers need to review their compensation rates rather than relying on 'cheap' labor to operate their businesses.

And yes, I am aware the margins in that business may not be the greatest and consumer prices may need to rise to provide adequate returns. That's true in many businesses.

And if the margins are not there, the business ceases to exist.

Trading one method of 'cheap' labor for another is not a wise choice.

I also wonder if other businesses will attempt to reduce labor costs associated with production utilizing similar methods?

Maybe, 'volunteer' prisoners could be employed to manufacture automobiles thereby keeping costs artificially low and providing greater margins to the owners.

Be careful for what one wishes. It's quite possible your job could be replaced with 'volunteer' laborers.

Just sayin'....

Mike

 

[firestrat]

I just read about some politician wants to replace firefighters with prisoners. Good luck with that, Einstein.

Also, prisoners picking up trash on the side of the road is one thing but using prisoners for the profit of a private business is something else.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I have read books about the past where prisons in the South, among them Angola & Parchman would lease out prisoners to private individuals. Prison made lots of money and the private owners treated them worse that rented mules. The would work them until they died and then go get another. The connected plantation owners made a lot of money that way. The rules have tighened up considerably since then. Down here there is a program where an inmate can be in a work release. He is paid market wage. He is transported to and from work. His paycheck goes to the work release which keeps half and the other half goes into the inmates account. When he is released, he has a marketable skill and a nice nest egg to start with. It seems to work well.

 

[tripledipper]

Bring back the chain gang and the boys won't have to pump iron!

 

[redlevel]

Quite possibly, farmers need to review their compensation rates rather than relying on 'cheap' labor to operate their businesses.

Just sayin'....

Mike

Baloney.

When I stopped growing produce on a large scale some 20 years ago, a good laborer could make $75-$100 a day. A good peach picker could double that easily. It was/is hard work, and if one can get $2500 of government benefits (in many cases, much more) tax free each month, one isn't likely to go to the field each day. There are some pretty good jobs being done by legal or illegal migrants, making pretty good money, that American workers could be doing if they were not on the dole. I speak from experience. The old saw about farmers replacing local labor with migrants because they would work cheaper is just a falsehood. Farmers brought the migrants in because the locals would not do the jobs that had to be done at any wage. Farmers in South Georgia were paying migrants to pull weeds out of peanuts $10-$12 per hour a year or two back.

You need to get your facts straight.

Just sayin' . . . .

 

[longranger]

CA, has been using prisoners for wildland firefighjting for at least 25 years.Some of the best firefighting training grounds are on prison property.These prisoners are considered "trustees" and are as well trained as anyone in wildland firefighting.Texas could have used a few this past summer.I have never felt jeopardized with their involvement in my chosen career,most of them are very willing to do what is necessary to extinguish the fire.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Baloney.

When I stopped growing produce on a large scale some 20 years ago, a good laborer could make $75-$100 a day. A good peach picker could double that easily. It was/is hard work, and if one can get $2500 of government benefits (in many cases, much more) tax free each month, one isn't likely to go to the field each day. There are some pretty good jobs being done by legal or illegal migrants, making pretty good money, that American workers could be doing if they were not on the dole. I speak from experience. The old saw about farmers replacing local labor with migrants because they would work cheaper is just a falsehood. Farmers brought the migrants in because the locals would not do the jobs that had to be done at any wage. Farmers in South Georgia were paying migrants to pull weeds out of peanuts $10-$12 per hour a year or two back.

You need to get your facts straight.

Just sayin' . . . .

Good post. Same thing down here with the Sugar Cane. It's why we now have a Menudo aisle at Wal-mart

 

[BE Mike]

Good post. Same thing down here with the Sugar Cane. It's why we now have a Menudo aisle at Wal-mart

I just thought you folks wanted to eat the breakfast of champions and didn't know that it came in a box!

 

[thndrchiken]

Some prisons are working farms, helps to keep them self sufficient.

 

[DeathGrip]

Undocumented Aliens that commit crimes on this side of the border need to be detained.They should have to build a wall and then be tossed back over it when their time is served.Next?It wouldn't take to long to build with all that we house and feed for free.Let them earn their way home with the understanding that this will be their fate if they come back.These are the ones that didn't come here to work but to be criminals.It would kill them to have to work.
The rest of our own prisoners should have to pull their own weight as well.Work or nothing,No weights TV or any of the other things that make life behind bars tolerable.Work,Eat and Sleep.

 

[feralmerril]

Longranger, try at least 51 years. I worked with convicts on the fire lines in 1960 in california. I have a brother in law that is fire chief at tehatchipi prision and he takes prisoners out on wild fires all the time.
Properly done, I think the idea of working prisioners is one of the best idea`s in the world. Then again it can lead to shanghighing people to be modern day slaves. Dont think so? Not that many years ago I read a article where some county sheriff down south used a black trustee as a retriever for duck hunting and the trustee either drowned or died of exsposeuer! What was that movie where steve mc queen was a prisioner down south? Also O brother, where art thou? Hey, even sometimes fiction has started with truth!

 

[firestrat]

Ok, I get it. If the people want to replace FF's with prisoners well I guess that's that. I've never worked a wildland fire except some large brush fires in my jurisdiction so I don't know all the "ins and outs" of it, but I think there are some differences between strucural firefighting and wildland firefighting. I'm sure if they recieved the proper training they could do the job. Firefighting can be dangerous no matter the type but when I get on the scene of a house fire and people are believed to be trapped on the second floor and the fire is (at first glance) on the first floor, it's immediate pucker factor time. I know I took the risks with the job but I don't think the prisoners may feel the same way.

If a prisoner is used to maintain the facillity he lives in and is owned by the state, it makes sense. But the idea of farming out cheap labor to private industry so they can improve their profit margin seems wrong to me. What industry would be next? I believe that was the point Tinkerer was trying to make, not that farm workers themselves work cheap.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Back in the 90's I used to drive by the prison in Atmore, AL on the way to Mobile. They had chain gangs working on the side of the road. Just a couple guards on horseback with shotguns.

 

[longranger]

If the Unions keep up with their shanannigans the industry is a loser The public who funds this industry is catching on(about time).I could not blame any City,County or State for getting a better deal for their labor dollars.35 years in the Union,they never did one damn thing for our local other than collect dues for Democrats.Our raises and benefits were negotiated by our own local folks,not some Union clown.

 

[JcMack]

If a prisoner is used to maintain the facillity he lives in and is owned by the state, it makes sense. But the idea of farming out cheap labor to private industry so they can improve their profit margin seems wrong to me. What industry would be next? I believe that was the point Tinkerer was trying to make, not that farm workers themselves work cheap.

There is not a limitless amount of convict labor. There are however an ever increasing amount of people sliding down the slippery slope to homelessness. I see it here. Out of work, out of unemployment insurance, and yet somehow convinced the Eagle will once again poop on them. Those folks have not hit bottom yet. But it's getting close. We in this country need to deal with the out of country commodity imports right now. If it takes convict labor to do it, so be it.

 

[JcMack]

If the Unions keep up with their shanannigans the industry is a loser The public who funds this industry is catching on(about time).I could not blame any City,County or State for getting a better deal for their labor dollars.35 years in the Union,they never did one damn thing for our local other than collect dues for Democrats.Our raises and benefits were negotiated by our own local folks,not some Union clown.

You will kill this thread by talking in specifics. I for one am interested in the generalities as there are plenty.

 

[johnsonl]

When I was studying corrections for my Police Science major, we learned that prison labor in the 50's was producing such high quality products that private industry lobbied for a ban on most prison manufacturing endeavors because private companies couldn't compete. Most prisons could be self supporting at minimum, if given the chance.

 

[feralmerril]

Captain! Boss ah gots ta go! Okay then, but ya all keep whistleing, hear?

 

[johnsonl]

"What we have here...is a failure to communicate!"

 

[firestrat]

We in this country need to deal with the out of country commodity imports right now. If it takes convict labor to do it, so be it.

So, we need to deal with imports by using convict labor to make affordable American products? How does that help?

Are we going to turn over the convicts to business to take care of? I don't think business wants to pick up the $30,000 to $50,000 a year that we pay to keep these people incarcerated. If they had to pick up that tab, we wouldn't even be having this discussion

"Our raises and benefits were negotiated by our own local folks,not some Union clown".

Your local members are "union clowns". I haven't got a raise in 7 years and took a paycut once, higher deductibles and copays all done through collective bargaining. So much for union "shennanigans"

 

[rburg]

I have read books about the past where prisons in the South, among them Angola & Parchman would lease out prisoners to private individuals.

Ummm....errrr....Caje, I've got an idea. We could start a business, so to speak, or make a movie!! We could maybe rent out some very nice looking female prisoners...You get the idea.

 

[Rule3]

Baloney.

. It was/is hard work, and if one can get $2500 of government benefits (in many cases, much more) tax free each month, one isn't likely to go to the field each day.

Just sayin' . . . .

As far as facts, where are you getting the $2500 of benefits a month figure from? What benefits, cash Food stamps, Medical?

 

[Moonman]

Sheriff Joe in Arizona had male and female chain-gangs, so that he didn't discriminate.

 

[longranger]

I remember when I was young firefighter we used to order and buy office furniture from a place called P.I.A. "Prison Industry Authority".Many of you who were in the military and remember the battleship gray funiture,that was made by P.I.A.Used have a huge catalog with their products.It prepared prisoners with a skill set that could be used when they were released.
Collective bargaining only pits the workers against the public,Roosevelt was dead set against it.It works in private industry not public service.That's why you took a pay cut.Why should public employees not have the same deductables as the private sector ?
I have seen the motivation of my generation of career firefighters go from "the job I was born to do" to the "what's in it for me".It has evolved into a behemoth that most municipalities can no longer afford.
I have seen Volunteer Fire Depts that will run circles around paid career Fire Depts.Somewhere there is a balance between the public good and down right ripping them off.

 

[redlevel]

As far as facts, where are you getting the $2500 of benefits a month figure from? What benefits, cash Food stamps, Medical?

A combination of those. The specific example I was thinking about was a man and his common-law wife who was drawing AFDC checks for four children, some kind of SS disability checks for three of the children, food stamps, living in a free government home, and using free transportation at least three or four times a month to get to various Dr. appointments. One of the children showed up with new glasses about twice a year. He wore them for a week at most, after which they were either lost or destroyed.

I worked for 6 months as a food stamp caseworker. I had to verify income for all food stamp recipients in my caseload. I had numerous "clients" whose families received well over $2000 monthly in direct government payments. I don't remember exactly what program it was now, but there was a large federal check some of the mothers received for each of their disabled children. This was in addition to any food stamps, housing, etc. they received.

I didn't just pull the number out of thin air.