OP
JcMack
Member
You will kill this thread by talking in specifics. I for one am interested in the generalities as there are plenty.
Convict labor
- Thread starter JcMack
- Start date
You will kill this thread by talking in specifics. I for one am interested in the generalities as there are plenty.
johnsonl
Member
When I was studying corrections for my Police Science major, we learned that prison labor in the 50's was producing such high quality products that private industry lobbied for a ban on most prison manufacturing endeavors because private companies couldn't compete. Most prisons could be self supporting at minimum, if given the chance.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Captain! Boss ah gots ta go! Okay then, but ya all keep whistleing, hear?
johnsonl
Member
"What we have here...is a failure to communicate!"
firestrat
Member
So, we need to deal with imports by using convict labor to make affordable American products? How does that help?
Are we going to turn over the convicts to business to take care of? I don't think business wants to pick up the $30,000 to $50,000 a year that we pay to keep these people incarcerated. If they had to pick up that tab, we wouldn't even be having this discussion
"Our raises and benefits were negotiated by our own local folks,not some Union clown".
Your local members are "union clowns". I haven't got a raise in 7 years and took a paycut once, higher deductibles and copays all done through collective bargaining. So much for union "shennanigans"
rburg
Member
Ummm....errrr....Caje, I've got an idea. We could start a business, so to speak, or make a movie!! We could maybe rent out some very nice looking female prisoners...You get the idea.
As far as facts, where are you getting the $2500 of benefits a month figure from? What benefits, cash Food stamps, Medical?
Moonman
Member
Sheriff Joe in Arizona had male and female chain-gangs, so that he didn't discriminate.
longranger
Member
I remember when I was young firefighter we used to order and buy office furniture from a place called P.I.A. "Prison Industry Authority".Many of you who were in the military and remember the battleship gray funiture,that was made by P.I.A.Used have a huge catalog with their products.It prepared prisoners with a skill set that could be used when they were released.
Collective bargaining only pits the workers against the public,Roosevelt was dead set against it.It works in private industry not public service.That's why you took a pay cut.Why should public employees not have the same deductables as the private sector ?
I have seen the motivation of my generation of career firefighters go from "the job I was born to do" to the "what's in it for me".It has evolved into a behemoth that most municipalities can no longer afford.
I have seen Volunteer Fire Depts that will run circles around paid career Fire Depts.Somewhere there is a balance between the public good and down right ripping them off.
Collective bargaining only pits the workers against the public,Roosevelt was dead set against it.It works in private industry not public service.That's why you took a pay cut.Why should public employees not have the same deductables as the private sector ?
I have seen the motivation of my generation of career firefighters go from "the job I was born to do" to the "what's in it for me".It has evolved into a behemoth that most municipalities can no longer afford.
I have seen Volunteer Fire Depts that will run circles around paid career Fire Depts.Somewhere there is a balance between the public good and down right ripping them off.
A combination of those. The specific example I was thinking about was a man and his common-law wife who was drawing AFDC checks for four children, some kind of SS disability checks for three of the children, food stamps, living in a free government home, and using free transportation at least three or four times a month to get to various Dr. appointments. One of the children showed up with new glasses about twice a year. He wore them for a week at most, after which they were either lost or destroyed.
I worked for 6 months as a food stamp caseworker. I had to verify income for all food stamp recipients in my caseload. I had numerous "clients" whose families received well over $2000 monthly in direct government payments. I don't remember exactly what program it was now, but there was a large federal check some of the mothers received for each of their disabled children. This was in addition to any food stamps, housing, etc. they received.
I didn't just pull the number out of thin air.
BLACKHAWKNJ
Member
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I read that Elijah Muhammad, the founder of the NOI/Black Muslims, got his ideas for self-sufficiency/self reliance from his term in a Federal pen for failing to register for the Draft in WWII, he noted that the inmates produced most of their own food on the prison's farms. IIRC JFK's rocking chair was made in a Federal prison. I read that one one midwestern state the maximum security prison was built with convict labor-how that for rubbing their noses in it?
Faulkner
Member
Most of the labor used to build prisons for the Arkansas Department of Corrections is still inmate labor.
Our county jail holds state prison trustees, called Act 309 Trustees, that do all of the building & grounds maintenance at the county detention facility, the sheriff's office, and the county courthouse. 309's also do the cooking and cleaning for all the county prisoners at the county detention facility as well as the laundry.
Interesting thing about prisoner roadside cleanup crews. Folks are aways saying how we ought to get the county inmates to do trash pickup along the state highways and county roads . . . until you load up a crew and take them out for trash duty, then folks start calling in and complaining about not wanting inmate road crews in their neighborhood or area. It's okay for the inmates to pick up trash in other parts of the county, just not their part.
Our county jail holds state prison trustees, called Act 309 Trustees, that do all of the building & grounds maintenance at the county detention facility, the sheriff's office, and the county courthouse. 309's also do the cooking and cleaning for all the county prisoners at the county detention facility as well as the laundry.
Interesting thing about prisoner roadside cleanup crews. Folks are aways saying how we ought to get the county inmates to do trash pickup along the state highways and county roads . . . until you load up a crew and take them out for trash duty, then folks start calling in and complaining about not wanting inmate road crews in their neighborhood or area. It's okay for the inmates to pick up trash in other parts of the county, just not their part.
enfield
US Veteran
We tried to use convict labor while building the new pistol range at our club. They couldn't seem to grasp the concept of filling a tire with sand and stacking it next to another one.
Pretty much useless . . .
Pretty much useless . . .
Known as "passive-aggressive resistance." Like when I used to drop the dishes and break them when asked to help.
jlrhiner
US Veteran
Known as "passive-aggressive resistance." Like when I used to drop the dishes and break them when asked to help.
You were on a chain gang?
I do not agree with prison being a profit making venture. If criminals are criminals, put them in prison. If employers want to hire someone cheap... let them face the reality of the market place... let them hire men and women who freely choose to work the wage offered. And if no one is willing, let the employer pay more... until they can find employes who will work for the wage offered. Employers are not needy people who need the helping hand of society to subsidize their operations. There is a prevailing minimum wage. Let employers begin there and bid up to the market requirement. This applies to farmers or anyone else up to and including factories, etc. If they want to give convicts work/study/release opportunities, fine. But let them do it without society subsidizing their commercial operations. And let it be done without making of convicts a beneficial chattle.
If society wants to keep a "lock them up and throw away the key" approach to crime and punishment, fine. Let society pay the cost... all of it. No private prisons. They have absolutely no incentive to not keep convicts in the prison system. And no prison system can be trusted to not use whatever means are available to keep such "profit making units" in the system. The same is true of funding LE operations via funding dependent upon successful drug operations, etc.
OP
JcMack
Member
15 years ago I could drive 10 mins. south of me and be in farm country. Farming must be popular, easy, and profitable, because all those farms are gone now. I've got to drive an hour now to see any farming. Farms were sold to developers that built expensive houses overnight. 25-30% of those houses are in foreclosure or soon will be. Good use for that land huh?
I bought produce today. For the price I paid it surely was grown out of country. Convict labor will not displace American labor as much as the influx of foreign laborers. Convict labor will give a much needed break to farmers here and lessen our continuing dependance on imports of produce from foreign countries. I believe it's a win/win situation.
I bought produce today. For the price I paid it surely was grown out of country. Convict labor will not displace American labor as much as the influx of foreign laborers. Convict labor will give a much needed break to farmers here and lessen our continuing dependance on imports of produce from foreign countries. I believe it's a win/win situation.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
You have different class`s of crimes and criminals. Some are there for violent crimes, some non violent. Obvisely you wouldnt put a mass murderer fighting forest fires where he could escape. I have no quams at all contracting out prisoners to farmers or whatever. It must cost a relative fortune to keep a inmate in prision. No reason at all not to take a piece of the burden off tax payers. I would like to see a chart on how many average tax payers it takes to keep a inmate in jail a year. I am sure it would water your eyes!
From my view this discussion is argueing over a situation of many prisions that wouldnt exist if I was a dictator. Except for "holding cells" for violent accused suspected criminals awating trial, I dont belive in prisions to start with. It`s simple in my thinking. Either you can trust a man on the outside, or you cant. If a person cant be trusted on the outside why put them in a petting zoo with all the huge cost? I would find another devil`s island, and bannish them to it. Just one rule. If you find your way back to america, we have a open season on you.
From my view this discussion is argueing over a situation of many prisions that wouldnt exist if I was a dictator. Except for "holding cells" for violent accused suspected criminals awating trial, I dont belive in prisions to start with. It`s simple in my thinking. Either you can trust a man on the outside, or you cant. If a person cant be trusted on the outside why put them in a petting zoo with all the huge cost? I would find another devil`s island, and bannish them to it. Just one rule. If you find your way back to america, we have a open season on you.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
How about Manhattan
Or better yet lets return the favor and send them all to Cuba!feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I would go for that. I am flexable.
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