Copper Coated .22 vs Bare Lead

[venomballistics]

Anyone ever shoot their tightest groups with anything from Remington?

yes actually. the old style truncated cone style thunderbolt was an absolute laser out of my old Revelation single shot

 

[Magnetodoc]

I agree CCI standard is about the best at reasonable cost. My daughter used it for practice in small bore rifle. She used eley eps 10x for matches. Way too expensive for everyday pest control. Put super accurate.

 

[Chesney]

In CCI 22LR ammo, the fastest is Stinger and it is copper plated?
So Stinger is not as accurate?

Stinger is not as acurate as standard volocity ammo, especially match ammo. One of my favorites is SK standard plus. Also the Singer case is longer and may damage match chambers.

 

[GnarlsR2]

Stinger is not as acurate as standard volocity ammo, especially match ammo. One of my favorites is SK standard plus. Also the Singer case is longer and may damage match chambers.

Good info! Thanks Chesney.

 

[Dave Lively]

The worst leading I ever saw was with Remington Thunderbolt but that was more due to low quality in general than the lead bullet. CCI standard velocity and even the lower cost Blazer has lead bullets and I have not had leading problems with either. Bullets need lube of some sort and I think it was some combination of excessively soft lead and/or inadequate lube that caused the leading with ThunderDuds.

But I have noticed that with my 617 I start getting sticky extraction much sooner with lead bullets than plated. The waxy lube on the lead bullets seems to create more smoke and fouling than the copper plated bullets. I polished the cylinder chambers in that gun a couple of weeks ago but have not had a chance to try it. Hope it helps with the extraction, my 617 shoots CCI standard velocity a little more accurately than MinMags but I don't shoot it due to the extraction issues.

 

[rwsmith]

I was never discriminating with what .22 I shot. After reading this thread I'm going to start keeping track.

 

[Chesney]

Couldn't prove it by me.... View attachment 783092

Cut that group in half with some standard velocity match ammo. If you're on a budget shoot som CCI SV.

 

[Navy vet]

I agree with those who say "it depends". Depends on your gun. I have two M&P 15-22 Performance Center. Got one for wife, liked hers so much, got one for myself. The 15-22 PC DO NOT like HP nor lead. Must be Copper Plated Round Nose. Or at least ours favor that. I've shot CCI, Armscor, Winchester, and Aquila Suoer Extra. CCI prolly shot best, but a close second is Aquila. Since Aquila is about half the price as CCI, you can guess what we shoot with on a weekly basis. Between the two of us we go thru around 600 rounds a week.

 

[BDABALL]

CCI Standard Velocity is remarkably accurate in my 10/22. I've tried stingers, mini- mags and several others. None group as tight as sv. Don't ever recall a ftf, either.

 

[Law-dog]

I shoot over a dozen 22s regularly, most suppressed these days. Velocity is the most important issue as to accuracy and it varies greatly by barrel length. My studies and others have shown that 1/3 of the time, the cheapest bulk ammo will provide smaller groups than match ammo, point is every gun is different and you must find the velocity/weight combo that comes out of your gun and choose the ammo that works best for that gun, regardless of price or brand.

In handguns velocity is always low. In every gun if the bullet starts supersonic and then falls subsonic, there is a possibility of yaw and accuracy dies. So you want the bullet to be either supersonic or subsonic from your gun to the target.

In all handguns we have found the Stinger the most accurate bar none. I think it is because of higher velocity which is consistent in that round. The cost twice as much but worth it in my view.

I am a CCI fan and buy lots of their mini mag or highest velocity ammo. I buy the suppressor rated slow stuff too, for shooting rats and such. It is just fine.

For general shooting and hunting my choice is the Remington Golden Bullet a known standard for half a century.

As a CCW instructor going back 29 years, I bought lots of cheap bulk ammo and find for shooting targets, it really does not matter. I cannot tell that copper coated helps or not. Cleaning lead out of handguns is not a big deal, it is trivial. And shooting 25 yards and under you simply do not see much difference in accuracy. With target guns you may. But not any regular handgun and we have a dozen or so.

At to rifles. If you want to make hits at 100 yards on critters, the Stinger is once again my choice. A second is the Remington Wasp I think, velocity matters more than anything in rifles shooting out to 100 yards. At 25 yards, it really does not matter, shoot the cheap stuff. In rifles the yaw is only a problem with low velocity ammo. It should start at 1.250 fps - 1.600 or so for Stingers and other high velocity ammo and stay about subsonic out to your target. Some of the brands may start supersonic and then drop shortly after they leave the barrel, and cause accuracy issues. But that is rare. We all have old 22s that will shoot anything at any distance pretty well and ammo does not matter much. Again, every gun is different. When barrels are longer as in older rifles, they all tend to stabilize the bullets well and accuracy is just fine.

Bottom line. It only matters much in shorter barrels, handguns. Stingers and other high velocity rounds will do better in short barrels. Plating does not matter in my opinion. And brand and cost is meaningless, because every gun is different. My 2 cents.

 

[SPGUSN]

Some of the best groups I get from my Winchester 52's are surprisingly from CCI Standard Velocity...go figure

 

[Bruceboy]

I have several S&W .22 revolvers in J and K frames. None would shoot CCI SV without leading and bunging up the chambers after a dozen or 15 rounds and required a brass brush treatment before easy chambering and ejection could be restored. I reamed several of my revolvers chambers and that all but reduced or eliminated that issue. Later I found Federal 36 gr. (plated) value pack rounds would eliminate the sticking and difficult extraction and also were accurate and inexpensive and it's all I use in my Smith .22 revolvers. CCI SV works fine in my Browning Medalist and other semi automatic pistols.

My S&W revolvers are all pre lock models and I have no idea whether S&W has corrected the tight chamber issue in more current models.

Al

 

[Dano]

People say the M&P 15-22 isn't as accurate as say a CZ bolt. Having never owned shot a CZ Bolt, I couldn't say but my 15-22 shoots anything I put in it but prefers CCI AR Tactical Copper Coated solids. This was just after I bought it 5 years ago. I took the Bushnell Red/green dot off and put the handle site back on. It's still accurate enough for 30 yd head shots on tree rats. I have several other .22's but I tend to take the M&P15-22 over the Ruger's and Henry. Though my is probably
a touch more accurate.


Dano

 

[Tabby Lynn]

Years ago, I bought a sweet CZ bolt action 22 from Buds, and started researching and hunting the best ammo for it. I rounded up several of the most recommended, higher-end brands, but was surprised to find it seems to produce the tightest groups from the cheapest, grubbiest Walmart bulk ammo, unplated Winchester X-pert, which IIRC,was $12 a brick at the time. Go figure.

Each and every rifle has an individual barrel that has a specific ammo that it prefers. Rifles of the same manufacture, even with subsequent serial numbers one rifle will not necessarily shoot the same ammo as well as another. Another abnormality is that even ammo of a given lot number may not shoot the same as that of another lot. Not long ago I came across some Winchester Silvertip 22 ammo, that shot one hole groups out of my Tikka T1x at 100 yards. I immediately went out and bought a brick, only to find that the different lot number was nowhere near as accurate. While it still shot sub moa at 100 yards it was nowhere near one hole groups. Another thing that was interesting is that the Silvertip is segmented pistol ammo with a muzzle velocity of 1060 fps out of a 3 1/2 inch barrel. I did not have the Garmin at that time, so have no idea what the muzzle velocity was out of a 20 inch but suspect that it was considerably more that what was published.

Last summer I did some testing for a small shooting club out in Wyoming. They had heard of the accuracy of the Tikka T1x and my testing of different ammunition and were curious as to how SK Standard performed out of my Tikka. Tests were conducted not only with the SK Standard but with all of the different SK ammo as well as some Eley, CCI and many others.

The results of this testing showed that even within the same brand of ammo, of different price levels you are not getting any real noticeable difference with the higher priced ammo. If anyone is interested in any of these results contact me individually.

 

[M E Morrison]

I am with you on that assessment! I have been shooting 22lr for about 65 years.

And if you are really serious, that applies to the one lot number you tested.

 

[bph9]

I think the thin copper coating always has been just an advertising gimmick to make you think it will lead the bore less. In reality the copper wash is scrapped off in the first inch or so by the lands in the rifling adding to more fouling in the bore.

I have seen some copper coated bullets even have a thin wash of wax on them. So if copper coating was for less leading then why the wax on them? I think that tells you something.

 

[M E Morrison]

yes actually. the old style truncated cone style thunderbolt was an absolute laser out of my old Revelation single shot

I used it in IHMSA pistol silhouette out to 50 yards.

 

[bph9]

Each and every rifle has an individual barrel that has a specific ammo that it prefers. Rifles of the same manufacture, even with subsequent serial numbers one rifle will not necessarily shoot the same ammo as well as another. Another abnormality is that even ammo of a given lot number may not shoot the same as that of another lot. Not long ago I came across some Winchester Silvertip 22 ammo, that shot one hole groups out of my Tikka T1x at 100 yards. I immediately went out and bought a brick, only to find that the different lot number was nowhere near as accurate. While it still shot sub moa at 100 yards it was nowhere near one hole groups. Another thing that was interesting is that the Silvertip is segmented pistol ammo with a muzzle velocity of 1060 fps out of a 3 1/2 inch barrel. I did not have the Garmin at that time, so have no idea what the muzzle velocity was out of a 20 inch but suspect that it was considerably more that what was published.

Last summer I did some testing for a small shooting club out in Wyoming. They had heard of the accuracy of the Tikka T1x and my testing of different ammunition and were curious as to how SK Standard performed out of my Tikka. Tests were conducted not only with the SK Standard but with all of the different SK ammo as well as some Eley, CCI and many others.

The results of this testing showed that even within the same brand of ammo, of different price levels you are not getting any real noticeable difference with the higher priced ammo. If anyone is interested in any of these results contact me individually.

I do not know how you tested but at our club the higher priced ammo "within the same brand" did indeed show a difference in accuracy. I was never able to match the accuracy "on average" of top of the line Lapua or Eley compared to the lower priced ammo. In other words Eley Tenex Red box out shot Eley Match Black on average considering that every lot shoots differently. Ditto for Lapua Midas v/s Center X. Considering the difference in price and that the difference in accuracy is so small most people shoot Eley match black box or Lapua Center X rather than Eley Tenex or Midas.

All testing was done indoors with no wind or mirage. If you were testing outdoors your results are not valid as there is always wind and mirage to contend with.

If your testing was valid no people who shoot at the big matches would be using the top of the line stuff. No one I know shoots Eley club orange box or Eley target yellow box. I have shot this stuff and it is not even in the same class as Eley match black box or Eley Tenex red box. I have shot the lower end RWS ammo and it was really poor stuff.

 

[GnarlsR2]

Wow...

This is all very insightful and interesting information!!

Does shooting a "1 hole group at 100 yards" mean that the target has "one hole" for the group??

I had my Ruger 10-22 at 50 yards, with a level indicated Nikon 9X. using Eley Match on a bench sitting in a Caldwell Stinger rifle stand, outdoor range with zero wind about 85d F, sighted in by a close friend, a retired Army Warrant Officer Marksman. I did not keep the target, but there were more holes than one for the final group.

Next outdoor range day, I will shoot it again and keep the target.

 

[Shootist00]

I don't have enough experience to pass judgment on various ammo brands and types. Here is what I currently have, and I'll be feeding a S&W 17-6 and a Winchester Model 52D. Please advise what to keep and what to get rid of.

Get rid of How? Just shoot it. Why would you even think of getting rid of perfectly good 22LR ammo. I can guaranty all of it can shoot better, be more accurate, than you can.