Custom New Model No. 3

[Oldmanwesson]

Here is what I believe must have been a custom order New Model No 3 with an added finger spur and adjustable rear sights. The front sight is the common half-moon type but the rear is an adjustable leaf type. The finger spur is screwed on and done so very professionally. I would think it was done at the factory. Roy's book mentions that this is a modification a customer could ask for from the factory. I tried to get a letter for it but received a reply that no information was available at this time... Serial number is 876, it's a long frame 44 Russian, in near perfect condition. Any thoughts on this one??

 

[BMur]

Frontier frame

Looks like a SA 44 Frontier frame. Many of the 44 frontiers were changed back to 44 Russians. 3 digit serial number long frame has to be a frontier I would think in 44 cal.

Murph

 

[Boulder350]

How long is the cylinder? Is it 1 9/16"? It also has the short ejector housing on the barrel. Agree with Murph, its a frontier model. The trigger spur looks like a very well made addition by a gunsmith. It appears larger and thicker than the factory spurs. Is there a serial number under the rear latch that matches the frame? Is there a serial number on the barrel and cylinder? Can you take a picture of the cylinder chambers? If it has straight wall and then a sharp step its in 44 russian. Most of the Single Actions that were chambered in 44 Winchester had just two slight steps in the cylinder with no sharp step.

 

[Oldmanwesson]

How long is the cylinder? Is it 1 9/16"? It also has the short ejector housing on the barrel. Agree with Murph, its a frontier model. The trigger spur looks like a very well made addition by a gunsmith. It appears larger and thicker than the factory spurs. Is there a serial number under the rear latch that matches the frame? Is there a serial number on the barrel and cylinder? Can you take a picture of the cylinder chambers? If it has straight wall and then a sharp step its in 44 russian. Most of the Single Actions that were chambered in 44 Winchester had just two slight steps in the cylinder with no sharp step.

No, it's definitely a 44 Russian, but with the long cylinder. I doubt a gunsmith made this finger spur. it looks identical in blue and fitting to the trigger guard. I am sure it was fitted at the factory. The barrel and cylinder numbers matches the frame. I wish the Foundation could shed some light on it...

 

[iby]

If the fingerguard is factory it is the only one like it I have ever seen
I've looked at a lot

 

[bigwagon]

The spur is very obviously riveted onto the trigger guard. Not factory.

 

[wordsmith]

The spur is very obviously riveted onto the trigger guard. Not factory.

S&W wouldn't have 'affixed' a spur to an existing trigger guard in that manner, especially considering they had a ready supply of the solid one-piece 'finger spur' guards in stock well into the early 1900's. It was a special order option that was offered throughout the New Model # 3's production.

David

 

[glowe]

Later production NM3s & 44 DAs had long cylinders chambered in various calibers including 44 Russian. The 1 9/16" cylinder started production with the introduction of the Frontier models around 1886 and I believe is was likely that the factory switched to the long cylinder/frame exclusively after they used up all the short cylinders and frames. Simple operation to chamber any caliber in the long cylinders.

This all means that something is not right about your serial number being a 44 Russian? The 44 Russian NM3 was up to serial number 20,000 by the time the long cylinder became available. Your serial number indicates you have a 44 Winchester Frontier???? Can you get some closeup images of the chambers?

 

[Oldmanwesson]

Here is a picture of the chambers. I put in a .44 Russian round, and it fits like it should. If it was 44-40 the cartridge fit would be sloppy. All numbers are the same, so there is no mix-and-match. As far as the finger spur is concerned, I agree that the screw-mounted spur may be an after-thought but it fits so well and looks so professional I can't imagine anyone being able to make this. The curvature of the trigger guard and the blue on the spur are absolutely perfect. I wish I could get an answer from SWHF!

 

[wordsmith]

Meant to mention when posting previously, a blue NM#3 trigger guard is almost always patent evidence of it's being refinished. 99.9% of all blue examples had case-colored guards. On original nickel examples there were a small few produced with plated guards, a number of which were also engraved.

You have a NM#3 Frontier chambered in .44 Russian -- nice gun!

DC

 

[Masterpiece]

This all means that something is not right about your serial number being a 44 Russian? The 44 Russian NM3 was up to serial number 20,000 by the time the long cylinder became available.

Well Gary,

Looks like His Last Photo posted of the Cyl. & Barrel Ser. No. clears up some of the mystery because the Cyl. Chamber Photo shows it's most definitely a .44 Russian ...Still doesn't explain how it came to have a Long Cylinder that early...Hmmm!!

 

[Masterpiece]

You have a NM#3 Frontier chambered in .44 Russian!

David,

Better check out His Newest Photos a bit closer...Never saw a NM#3 Frontier with a Ser. No. of 16479...At least I'm reasonably certain that's what it reads!!

 

[Masterpiece]

Here is what I believe must have been a custom order New Model No 3 with an added finger spur and adjustable rear sights. Serial number is 876, it's a long frame 44 Russian, in near perfect condition.

Oldmanwesson,

After the Latest Photos you posted of the Barrel & Cyl. Serial Numbers...If the Butt Serial Number actually reads 876...Which as best as I can tell it looks to have a 3 Digit Ser. No....Someone's custom built this Revolver in it's present configuration!!

If so...This certainly adds a bit of insight how about all the Rights & Wrongs concerning what we're trying to clear up!! Maybe it would be best for you to post the Revolver's Butt Serial Number...If that's possible...To confirm all the mystery we're trying to understand!!

 

[BMur]

Confusing thread

Amazing.
Makes us all look bad when a miss-matched gun isn't discovered until photos are posted. I guess it's a put together. Nice looking though. Don't see a purpose for attempting to letter it though. No matter how you look at it, it's a put together.

It's still an odd duck. Definitely a long frame. Definitely in the late frontier serial number range. Long cylinder and barrel in the 16,000 range? That's odd.

Murph

 

[wordsmith]

My total bad..... I didn't even look at the cylinder number. If the butt number is different, it's definitely an 'as assembled' gun.

DC

 

[Masterpiece]

My total bad..... I didn't even look at the cylinder number. If the butt number is different, it's definitely an 'as assembled' gun.

David,

Thought you'd change your assessment once you looked a bit closer...You've been in this game too long to have been that far off...Ha!!-Ha!!

At least now it fits the Thread's Title more accurately...It's now definitely a "Custom" New Model No. 3!!

 

[glowe]

David pretty much has the right answer, I just have a little different slant. Yes the chamber is 44 Russian. Yes the serial number for the top latch and cylinder is 16479. No, there should not be any long frames below 20,000 in the 44 Russian NM3 line, but that NM3 long cylinder is below 17,000. It would be helpful to get an image of the butt for further study of font type and any evidence of a removed serial number? Could it have been re-stamped??

If the frame has an "876" on the butt is has to be from a NM3 Frontier, since the long cylinder has to fit in a long window. Both the frame and cylinder were lengthened to accommodate the 44 Winchester cartridge and some late 44 Russians as well.

 

[Oldmanwesson]

David,

Better check out His Newest Photos a bit closer...Never saw a NM#3 Frontier with a Ser. No. of 16479...At least I'm reasonably certain that's what it reads!!

Oops! That was the wrong picture! My bad. Here are the pictures of the serial number on the butt and cylinder. They are the same. So is the barrel. I also measured the trigger guard of a 3rd model Russian and compared it to the guard of the NM No3. The Russian is wider and bigger in the round. They would not be easily interchangeable.
Furthermore...
According to the book, the early production models should have a long extractor housing and toothed gear extractor. This one has the later model, circular extractor cam and single finger. Hmmm....

 

[Masterpiece]

Oops! That was the wrong picture! My bad. Here are the pictures of the serial number on the butt and cylinder. They are the same. So is the barrel.
Furthermore...
According to the book, the early production models should have a long extractor housing and toothed gear extractor. This one has the later model, circular extractor cam and single finger. Hmmm....

Oldmanwesson,

Thanks for the New "Correct" Photos...Now this Revolver is starting to make better sense...Sure would have been nice to have seen these Photos from the git-go!!

First off...Concerning the Extractor Housing...That's legit also for a NM#3 Frontier SA so there's no problem there!! The Cyl. & Ser. No. on it also look to be correct...Even though it's chambered for a .44 Russian rather than a .44-40 W.C.F. as most Frontiers are chambered!! The Barrel Ser. No. is barely readable, but looks correct as well!! Only Photo you didn't post was that of the Barrel Latch Ser. No...Does it have one?? If so, it would be nice to see that also...That is if there's one present!!

Now this brings us to how "Possibly" it came to be...Only thought I have at present is this Revolver had a Cyl. Conversion to .44 Russian done that was supposed to go to the Japanese & somehow missed being shipped there!! S&W sold 786 of these Converted Frontiers to Takata & Co. that they then shipped to Japan!! Only problem now is there are sporadic breaks in the Ser. No. List of those Converted Frontiers shipped & Your Revolver's Ser. No. falls in between Ser. No.s 874 & 878...A 3 Revolver Gap...Hmmm!!

Given that...At this time all I can speculate...And "Please" don't take this as gospel...Could yours "Possibly" have been one of these Conversions...Built, but never shipped?? Now here's where the mystery takes a bizarre turn...According to Your S&W Inquiry they told you there was no information available...Which means this Revolver is what's considered to be "Open In The Factory Records"!! What this generally means is you're never going to know how this Revolver came to be!! If I may ask...Who at S&W told you there was no information available...Did you submit a "Research Letter Request" or was this info passed along otherwise??

Well I guess at the present time that's about all the insight I have about it for the time being...Let's see now what everyone else's thoughts come up with...Good or Bad!!

 

[wordsmith]

Having the correct photos changes everything..... the gun is obviously a NM#3 Frontier chambered in .44 Russian. Given that so many of this model (practically unsaleable in .44-40 throughout the period of production) are recorded as actually shipped in .44 Russian, it's as possible the chambering is original-to-manufacture as it is re-cylindered from .44-40 - depending on whether someone ordered one of the new Frontier models in .44 Russian or the factory built it for .44-40 inventory stock and later had to change out the cylinder to achieve a sale.

I like it even better now!
DC