defaced serial number

First off, welcome to the forum.

The model 19-3 has a serial number on the butt of the grip frame and also on the frame where the yoke closes (also the frame). As long as the frame (which is the only part that the BATF considers the firearm) has a serial number, the gun is legal. Barrels, cylinders yokes etc. can be bought and sold without an FFL because they are parts and only the frame makes it a gun.

Although it is unsightly, I would not worry about the marks in the yoke area from a legal standpoint. I have even had FFL's give me the yoke assembly number as the serial number when attempting to fill out the 4473.

In 50 years of shooting and carrying, I have NEVER had one of my guns checked by anyone for a serial number or to see if it was stolen.

Unless you are wreckless, drunk, raising a ruckus, I can not imagine that you will ever be questioned about this gun.

If you are concerned about resale, I would (if it were me) fill the holes with JB Weld as someone suggested and smooth it out with a dremel or other such device. Maybe even try mixing in a little cold blue to see if you could color it to match.

I really wouldn't lose any sleep over it. ;)
 
I wish there'd been a picture inside the yoke.

Sometimes Smith's stampings there look like it was
planned mutilation.
 
Thanks guys. There is a picture inside the yolk in one of my initial posts.Thanks for the feedback.

Derek
 
Just put the darn thing in your safe. Pull it out when you want to go to the range. Take a Xanax for the anxiety. Everything is okay. Breathe. If that does not work sell it to me for 50.00, I'll pay shipping, and
get that monkey off your back. I'll be your best friend.
 
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I am so old....

Go ahead, ask. ............ How old are you?


I am so old, I can remember when the serial number was pretty much a worthless item on a gun. It was just there so the government could trace our guns.

At least that was a feeling back before the GCA of 1968 and subsequent laws made serial numbers ultra-important.

I recall seeing many guns with the numbers ground off. I suppose most of these guns have been disposed of since then -- or maybe they are in dresser drawers and closets all across the country. And pawn shops.
 
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I have a 19-3 with a 2 1/2 inch barrel that was my father's carry gun. He bought it new in 1974. There is no serial number stamped on the frame under the yoke, just 19-3. There's a five digit number stamped on the yoke that does not match the official serial number on the grip.

I have another 19-3, 6 inch barrel, that I bought new in 1972. It does have the serial number stamped on the frame under the yoke. So it looks like S&W wasn't consistent in their stamping.

I don't think the OP has anything to worry about.
 
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Caution re Legal Advice!

I am frankly troubled by and take exception to the general trend of answers here, at least some of which conclusions tend strongly toward the impression of legal advice. Though offered in good faith, erroneous information is potentially just as damaging. Not in any couching specifics here nor trying to speak to the factual issue presented. Just some important generalities to note.

First that Federal laws concerning such as altering, defacing or obliterating, etc., firearm serial numbers are not preemptive. That is, that the States are generally free to enact their own essentially parallel laws as long as such do not conflict with or tend to frustrate the federal scheme. Thus generally states may permissibly supplement such laws creating stricter requirements and narrower exceptions. Second, some such laws move beyond serial numbers per se and make illegal the possession of firearms* (*and that very term sometimes under state definition) which have any nomenclature altered, obliterated, removed, etc. Thus in those states, such as 'affected' model numbers would presumably fall within the prohibited category concerning possession, transfer and the like.

There is next a complex landscape just within the seminal Federal Gun Control Act of 1968 which imposed serialization of all domestically manufactured or imported firearms subsequent to the laws implementation date. (And within that serialization exist stringent standards which varied materially from much of the preexisting serialization functionality.)

There are many generalizations floating around concerning essentially a 'pass' for firearms manufactured before the GCA68 implementation date. Yet within the fabric of this law is a complex structure and then also the interplay with various state laws to be recognized. All of which must be carefully construed against the individual and often unique fact set under analysis. Some of those 'pass' circumstances of the GCA68 are not recognized under some state laws. In fact, certain state(s) laws are so stringent that if strictly construed, many older guns 'might' be in jeopardy. But other than to note, not necessary to go there.

Yet another dimension of a fact pattern is not just application of law but both the circumstances under which a firearm might come into scrutiny and the perception of criminal activity; such in either unlawful alteration intent or the circumstances of possession. There is the unsung circumstance of equitable innocence.

It is simply unwise to offer specific information without thoroughly understanding the particular fact set, the involved jurisdictions and only then a qualified analysis of all relevant law. Neither generalizations nor anecdotal experiences form substitutes! The risks of dependence on such include both criminal prosecution and the possibility of lifetime gun ownership prohibition. Not something to trifle with!

My definite take.
 
Owning that gun would bother me until The day I got rid of it. There are way too many unmolested 19's out there to bother with something like this.

Just my opinion.
 
I WOULD JUST LEAVE THE REVOLVER AS IS. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO FIX OR COVER THE DAMAGE BY WELDING. KEEP YOUR BILL OF SALE IN A SAFE PLACE. IF YOU COULD GET SOMETHING IN PRINT FROM YOUR LOCAL PD, THAT THE REVOLVER DOES NOT APPEAR ON ANY LIST OF STOLEN FIREARMS, THAT WOULD BE A PLUS. KEEP THIS WITH YOUR BILL OF SALE……

IN CLOSE TO 60 YEARS OF SHOOTING, BUYING AND SELLING FIREARMS, NO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY HAS EVER LOOKED AT THE SERIAL NUMBER OF ANY FIREARM THAT I HAVE OWNED. I DOUBT THAT ANYONE WILL BE CHECKING YOUR REVOLVER EITHER…..
 
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iskra said:
I am frankly troubled by and take exception to the general trend of answers here, at least some of which conclusions tend strongly toward the impression of legal advice. Though offered in good faith, erroneous information is potentially just as damaging. Not in any couching specifics here nor trying to speak to the factual issue presented. Just some important generalities to note.

First that Federal laws concerning such as altering, defacing or obliterating, etc., firearm serial numbers are not preemptive. That is, that the States are generally free to enact their own essentially parallel laws as long as such do not conflict with or tend to frustrate the federal scheme. Thus generally states may permissibly supplement such laws creating stricter requirements and narrower exceptions. Second, some such laws move beyond serial numbers per se and make illegal the possession of firearms* (*and that very term sometimes under state definition) which have any nomenclature altered, obliterated, removed, etc. Thus in those states, such as 'affected' model numbers would presumably fall within the prohibited category concerning possession, transfer and the like.

There is next a complex landscape just within the seminal Federal Gun Control Act of 1968 which imposed serialization of all domestically manufactured or imported firearms subsequent to the laws implementation date. (And within that serialization exist stringent standards which varied materially from much of the preexisting serialization functionality.)

There are many generalizations floating around concerning essentially a 'pass' for firearms manufactured before the GCA68 implementation date. Yet within the fabric of this law is a complex structure and then also the interplay with various state laws to be recognized. All of which must be carefully construed against the individual and often unique fact set under analysis. Some of those 'pass' circumstances of the GCA68 are not recognized under some state laws. In fact, certain state(s) laws are so stringent that if strictly construed, many older guns 'might' be in jeopardy. But other than to note, not necessary to go there.

Yet another dimension of a fact pattern is not just application of law but both the circumstances under which a firearm might come into scrutiny and the perception of criminal activity; such in either unlawful alteration intent or the circumstances of possession. There is the unsung circumstance of equitable innocence.

It is simply unwise to offer specific information without thoroughly understanding the particular fact set, the involved jurisdictions and only then a qualified analysis of all relevant law. Neither generalizations nor anecdotal experiences form substitutes! The risks of dependence on such include both criminal prosecution and the possibility of lifetime gun ownership prohibition. Not something to trifle with!

My definite take.
Click to expand...
Guess we know who's the lawyer in this thread, eh? Do lawyers even know how to speak - or write - anything other than legalese? :D

Just ribbing you there a little iskra. But seriously, if all that were written in the more common vernacular it would have been one heck of a lot easier to follow. Just sayin'...
 
CalvinT said:
I have a 19-3 with a 2 1/2 inch barrel that was my father's carry gun. He bought it new in 1974. There is no serial number stamped on the frame under the yoke, just 19-3. There's a five digit number stamped on the yoke that does not match the official serial number on the grip.

I have another 19-3, 6 inch barrel, that I bought new in 1972. It does have the serial number stamped on the frame under the yoke. So it looks like S&W wasn't consistent in their stamping.

I don't think the OP has anything to worry about.
Click to expand...

I also have a Model 34-1 of the same vintage. Again there is no serial number under the crane, just on the butt.

To quote from the S&W website.

"Revolvers - The official serial number is located on the bottom of the butt of the frame. Some revolvers also have the serial number located on the inside of the frame, in the yoke area."

FAQs - Smith & Wesson

So... anyone wanting to make a case for defacing the serial number would have to prove there was originally an official serial number under the crane.

I agree that all the "legal" advice being given is probably worth what the derek84 is paying for it.

If it was my gun, since he's run the serial number twice, I'd just enjoy shooting it.
 
BC38 said:
Guess we know who's the lawyer in this thread, eh? Do lawyers even know how to speak - or write - anything other than legalese? :D

Just ribbing you there a little iskra. But seriously, if all that were written in the more common vernacular it would have been one heck of a lot easier to follow. Just sayin'...
Click to expand...

I gave up half way through paragraph two :p
 
BC38 said:
Guess we know who's the lawyer in this thread, eh? Do lawyers even know how to speak - or write - anything other than legalese? :D

Just ribbing you there a little iskra. But seriously, if all that were written in the more common vernacular it would have been one heck of a lot easier to follow. Just sayin'...
Click to expand...
With the badge displayed, I would have thought the OP had written a report or two. To me, police reports are like the quote from SGT. Joe Friday..."Just the facts, ma'am"...
 
BC38,

I offer you this snippet of legalese only because you are a Washingtonian.

No person may change, alter, remove, or obliterate the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of identification on any firearm. Possession of any firearm upon which any such mark shall have been changed, altered, removed, or obliterated, shall be prima facie evidence that the possessor has changed, altered, removed, or obliterated the same.
Click to expand...

RCW 9.41.140: Alteration of identifying marks?Exceptions.

With hundreds of unquestionably legal guns offered to you every week why even look at one that might cause you to hire an attorney? Guns with questionable legality are never priced low enough to compensate for that risk and in Washington this one is beyond doubt illegal.
 
k22fan said:
I offer you this snippet of legalese only because you are a Washingtonian.



RCW 9.41.140: Alteration of identifying marks?Exceptions.

With hundreds of unquestionably legal guns offered to you every week why even look at one that might cause you to hire an attorney? Guns with questionable legality are never priced low enough to compensate for that risk and in Washington this one is beyond doubt illegal.
Click to expand...

Burden of proof is on the State to prove there was a serial number there in the first place. Since the official location per the S&W website is the bottom of the butt frame and not under the crane, and not all S&W revolvers had a serial number on the frame under the crane (two of mine don't), the State wouldn't be able to prove it's case.
 
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