Defending the Constitution and second Amendment

Buffalohunter60

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Our enemy are the elected officals that have dishonored their Oath of office and are proposing legislation that is in direct violation of the Oath they took and an infringement on our second amendment. How many here are willing to band together, hire an attorney..and charge the offenders with violating their Oath. It would make the rest thin k before they pursue more legislation that violates our second amendment. I do know a good attorney and I plan to put this before him...how many are willing to support the financial cost? I can contribute $50-100 a month to support this. the money would go directly to the attorney..not to me.....are we willing to put our money where our mouth is? Are we willing to hold their feet to the fire? Maybe there is an attorney here that is qualified and willing to pursue this? Its time to hold their feet to the fire. We are a nation of laws and the elected officals are not imune to proscution.....if interested pm me. This would be a group effort...I can get a cost estimate and take it from there. Are we up for it? Is anyone willing to participate to try to save our second amendment and hold our officals responsible for their Oath of Office?
 
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Our enemy are the elected officals that have dishonored their Oath of office and are proposing legislation that is in direct violation of the Oath they took and an infringement on our second amendment. How many here are willing to band together, hire an attorney..and charge the offenders with violating their Oath. It would make the rest thin k before they pursue more legislation that violates our second amendment. I do know a good attorney and I plan to put this before him...how many are willing to support the financial cost? I can contribute $50-100 a month to support this. the money would go directly to the attorney..not to me.....are we willing to put our money where our mouth is? Are we willing to hold their feet to the fire? Maybe there is an attorney here that is qualified and willing to pursue this? Its time to hold their feet to the fire. We are a nation of laws and the elected officals are not imune to proscution.....if interested pm me. This would be a group effort...I can get a cost estimate and take it from there. Are we up for it? Is anyone willing to participate to try to save our second amendment and hold our officals responsible for their Oath of Office?

Wow, I like your thought process but how you gonna change that when you are battling people with unlimited resources and power. You are just a victim if you do not like it than move out of the Northern dictatorships. Nothing you can do to buck the system with the unlimited resources they possess.
 
Wow, I like your thought process but how you gonna change that when you are battling people with unlimited resources and power. You are just a victim if you do not like it than move out of the Northern dictatorships. Nothing you can do to buck the system with the unlimited resources they possess.
Concerning elected officals...If charged with a crime...I believe they have to defend themselves with their own money. When i worked for the government...if I was charges with a crime (I never was) you had to pay for your own defence...they do not have unlimited funds...nor can they necessarily sway a jury trial....but they can be held responsible for violating the Oath of Office. I have e-mailed myn attorney and see if he is willing to take this case...or recommend a good attorney that could take it. We are not helpless, they can be charged and we the people can make a difference. remember...they get their money from us...and we have more than they do. It can be done...we just need to do it. We are a force to be taken seriously.....and losing their pay and benifits will get their attention...they are just government employees.
This is my letter to my attorney...awaiting his responce.

Hi lincoln,
John Hackett here. I do not know where you stand on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I take our second amendment and our right to bear arms seriously. I do not know what part of "Not to be Infringed" our elected officals do not understand. I am looking for an attorney to represent a group of people that want see elected officals charges with violating the Oath of Office by proposing legislation that is in violation of the Oath they took to Protect and Defend the Constitution. Senator Fienstein and Senator Schumer are just the tip of the iceberg...but if they are charged and held accountable for their actions, the rest may stop and think about the bills they are proposing that infringe on the peoples rights. I know your a good attorney and would like to know what you think...or if you would recommend an attorney to take on this task?
Sincerely,
John Hackett
 
Jim...if we keep running away from this to another state....soon there will be no place to run to.....We need to stand tall and stop this in its tracks....I will never be a victim....I will fight this fight for all its worth with all I have, this is "OUR Country" We have the ability....question is...do we have the courage to follow through. Don't sell the American people short...never quit and always honor the Oath that many of us took when we served this great country. Its still a great country...we just need to get it back on the track and run some honest people for office....I know I do not want the job if it was given to me....but we need to promote some people that look out for our rights and remove those that do not get it. We can keep our rights....we just need to fight for them and use the court system to our advantage....we may not win all the battles....but neither will they. Collectively...we have the financial power to brace them. I have spent thousands on guns...if one thousand people put up $1000 thats a million to fight them with. We can each put up a lot less and with a lot more people and its a small price to bail this boat out....and it needs to be done. We are not victims and I have no intention of ever being one.
 
this Adam guy would have bought his gun anyway but maybe and that is a LONG maybe the mental health aspect would have not allowed him to. Your problem is you can not criminally charge a legislative member with breaking a criminal law unless it specifically spells it out. You would have a better time with civil charges but again they are in the course of duty in doing their job. I believe the president and his goons would provide any legislative member with legal defense in regards to anything dealing with this regulation. I wish you luck but I do not see it changing anytime soon and they plan on running this up the flag pole to the federal level. I am in Arkansas and I can tell you this will never happen here, ever on the state level. If they decide to do it again on the federal level then things could get a lot more problematic.
 
You got plenty of lawyer types serving in Congress now. They know what is going on and they know the law. I would like to think these high profile represenetatives would be bringing legitimate charges against those who choose not to honor their oath of office. Maybe they have an alternate plan. Who knows? Obviously, to date, this a'int happening. The question is why? The squeaky wheel always gets the grease.

I agree with James in that you/we can't fight the federal gov't in this day and age. This isn't Oz and we aren't in Kansas anymore either. My guess is there are a heck of a lot more gun owners in Ct., Co, NY etc etc etc than anti-gun types, and they just had no choice but to sit back and take it in the shorts without even a voice much less a vote. I just make a donation to the NRA. They have some ability to fight this legally in court. This will not end well IMHO. Two generations of dumbed down citizens, a dozen new smokescreens created weekly and free junk to keep them lapping at the trough of Uncle Sam. Thank God I live in Texas!! Just pack up the truck and move to Texas, John. Love to have you down here.
 
If they ever try to take my guns...I will be cremated in NH. I will not run to another state. I am not in the least worried about me...I will never lose my freedom...maybe my life...but never my freedom.
I will do this for my children and grandchildren and all the other young Americans because they deserve the same freedom I have had. I am as stubborn as a rock and a Senator was recently arrested and charged with bribing fellow Senators by the FBI...so they are not imune from proscution......The best way to test it is to hire a good Constitutional Attorney and have at it....the only thin g we have to lose is money....compared to freedom...thats nothing. Small gamble. I support the NRA...Life member, I support Oath Keepers...Life member....I support holding our elected officals feet to the fire. I have suggested this to the NRA with no responce back from them as of yet...One thing I am not ...is a quitter.....or a victim........Just because they are in Washington ....does not exempt them from the law. Violating an Oath is a serious matter...if its not...then why bother to take an Oath? Dishonor your Oath in the Military and you can bet...you will be charged (as you should be) If we allow them to be above the law....and we lose our freedom....we only have to look in the mirror to see who to blame. If we lose our rights...its because we lack the back bone to defend them. I do not want to be the one that tells the future generation that "WE" lost your freedom because we lacked the will to stand up like men and fight for your freedom like so many soldiers did so we had our freedom...I will not go down that road. Its only money brothers...whats that compared to losing your rights. Do you think the Senators are above the Law? Do you think the president is above the Law? I know I am not above the law and may well be on their list of people they would rather not deal with...so be it.
 
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These are cases that have already been decided by the supreme Court

Federal Cases Regarding the Second Amendment

Note the Supreme Court Case US VS Miller...and note the reference to a milita type weapon...then tell me that an AR-15 is not a milita type weapon...it has already been decided...they can not ban weapons that are in common use by the military...

We will win this fight....I am just saying...we should hold the elected reps feet to the fire for what they propose.....its called responsibility in my world. You can not win a battle by running away from it or quitting. I learned one thing in Vietnam....the VC never had a chance against us....but, they did not quit and they did not run away.....and they outlasted us...and won. When the other guy quits....you win. Out troops never quit...but our government never had the will to do what needed to be done to win, and I doubt they have the will now to win either.
 
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I think a few are having "oh no.." moments when faced with real feedback numbers... but who knows what's going on behind closed doors... just don't go quiet! If anyone hasn't written their representatives and other legislators who are supportive, please take a few minutes to do so. Its easy.. they all have websites with a "Contact ****" option. A simple, respectful note is all it takes to make a difference.
 
These are cases that have already been decided by the supreme Court

Federal Cases Regarding the Second Amendment

Note the Supreme Court Case US VS Miller...and note the reference to a milita type weapon...then tell me that an AR-15 is not a milita type weapon...it has already been decided...they can not ban weapons that are in common use by the military...

We will win this fight....I am just saying...we should hold the elected reps feet to the fire for what they propose.....its called responsibility in my world. You can not win a battle by running away from it or quitting. I learned one thing in Vietnam....the VC never had a chance against us....but, they did not quit and they did not run away.....and they outlasted us...and won. When the other guy quits....you win. Out troops never quit...but our government never had the will to do what needed to be done to win, and I doubt they have the will now to win either.


How about a drone or a stealth bomber? Have you got some of them out back. You think the government actually cares about your AR or AK?

I hear what you are saying but this is 2013 not 1860 so the government that is today is nothing like it was back then. Unlimited resources and the ability to do whatever they want to do to appease the masses. You are fighting an up hill battle.
 
How about a drone or a stealth bomber? Have you got some of them out back. You think the government actually cares about your AR or AK?

I hear what you are saying but this is 2013 not 1860 so the government that is today is nothing like it was back then. Unlimited resources and the ability to do whatever they want to do to appease the masses. You are fighting an up hill battle.
Jim, remember...it's Our Government and Our Country, not theirs...they serve at our will...some may have forgot that.
Common arms for a malitia are infantry weapons....I doubt the Malitia used ships either...minute men do not need stealth bombers or drones...the government had drones long before they could fly......and they still have many.
Some in government do not care about the people having the means to defend themselves...or they would not be trying to take them. I can not go into why I think this is going on here as this is about the second amendment.
Not all our Politicions are trying to strip our rights and I support those 100% and I let them know that I appreciate it when they vote to preserve our rights..One NH Senator (Senator Alyotte) gets it. Our other Senator still needs to work on it a bit. I am not at all worried about winning this battle....the precedent has already been set in many cases....research it if that interests you. Once the supreme court has ruled on something .......its pretty much decided as far as they are concerned.
What we need to do is hold Politicions responsible for their actions...and they are not above the law...no more than you or I are. Many elected officals have been proscuted....take a look at Bloombergs gang....most of them cant buy a firearm because of past convictions...but they can propose bills to try to take your rights....I have a problem with that. Anyway...I am for the rights of all people....yours, mine and the children that have to live with this mess that is on our watch....and I can tell you, I am not proud of what we are leaving them. I will do all I can do...and if I think up another way to attack it...I will do that also. Quitters never win....and winners never quit.....it applies to business...and this is just another business of preserving our second amendment. We need to hold Politicions libale if they violate their Oath of Office if it is with in the law to do that....that is what I am trying to find out now...if it can be done...it will be done.
Your right...this is not 1868 and the government changes every 4 years...but one thing that does not change unless it is ratified...is the document that limits the governments power. It holds the same weight today as it did when it was enacted. We still have the same problems to deal with as the folks back then did...power, greed, tryanny, etc etc..and some things will never change. Power needs to be limited and the founders realized that. We will always have to deal with dishonesty, evil and corruption.
 
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Our enemy are the elected officals that have dishonored their Oath of office and are proposing legislation that is in direct violation of the Oath they took and an infringement on our second amendment. How many here are willing to band together, hire an attorney..and charge the offenders with violating their Oath. It would make the rest thin k before they pursue more legislation that violates our second amendment. I do know a good attorney and I plan to put this before him...how many are willing to support the financial cost? I can contribute $50-100 a month to support this. the money would go directly to the attorney..not to me.....are we willing to put our money where our mouth is? Are we willing to hold their feet to the fire? Maybe there is an attorney here that is qualified and willing to pursue this? Its time to hold their feet to the fire. We are a nation of laws and the elected officals are not imune to proscution.....if interested pm me. This would be a group effort...I can get a cost estimate and take it from there. Are we up for it? Is anyone willing to participate to try to save our second amendment and hold our officals responsible for their Oath of Office?

I like this idea and your train of thought here. My only question is; Why has the NRA not done this? You would think that if this is truly a viable option they would have pursued it.
 
One of the things people need to remember, is that unless an elected official violates an ethics law, or commits a "high crime" or misdemeanor, then all the petitions and threatened law suits, are just that - a threat.

Since the founding of our Republic, politicians in the performance of their duties, are protected by the Constitution itself. The fallback position is always interpretation, and no one can be impeached for "honest" interpretation.

Every section, phrase, sentence, and clause in the U.S. Constitution, as well as that of the several states has been parsed by courts and sessions of congresses and legislatures.

Why did Heller v. Washington have to be litigated? The 2nd Amendment is clear, in that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. But in the last 230 years the parsing and the concept of "stare decisis" have corrupted the original meaning of the Constitution.

In the original case of United States v. Miller, the judge of original jurisdiction threw out the charges because Miller's possession of a sawed-off shotgun was not deemed to be illegal based on pure interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. The parsing, and lack of abiding by original intent, was what doomed Miller (that along with the gross mishandling of the appeals process). Contrary to the Supreme Court's view, a sawed-off shotgun is really no different than a blunderbuss.

This doesn't just involve the 2nd Amendment. Look at Kelo v. City of New London. Just how did eminent domain come to cover the taking of private property by another private property owner? And just how does one lose private property rights for refusing to serve anyone, for any reason?

And please, don't get me started on "Obama Care". The U.S. Supreme Court views forced purchase of a commercial product, is part of Congress' taxing authorization?
 
Responce from my attorney...probably good advise as i have a lot of respect for his judgement.

John,

How do I stand on the Constitution and Bill of Rights? I took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution at several points in my life: as a member of the armed services, as a public official, as an attorney. That’s where I stand.

Having said that you need to explain to me what you think members of Congress are doing that violate the constitution. I’m assuming your reference relates to the second amendment. Read: The District of Columbia, et. al. v. Dick Anthony Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008).

And explain to me if the Constitution says: “Congress shall make no law …abridging the freedom of speech…” Why can’t I yell “fire” in a crowded theater?


Neither Senator Feinstein nor Chuck Schumer are going to get any legislation passed limiting gun rights in this country. Save your money.

--Lincoln

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51 Islington Street, Suite 2
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603-427-8044
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Thanks Guys for all the information....I guess I need to just let the system work......I take an Oath to mean my best effort to live up to it. I just hate the thought of electing a person to office and see them trying to trash our freedom or vote away our rights. Its hard to sit here and feel like I am doing everything I can and ask myself...what more can I do? I will just do what I can and let the system work. I am tired of writing my Senators and they are probably tired of hearing from me...but I will keep doing it and supporting the NRA. I respect my attorneys advise as he is a smart man and knows the system. I do not think they will ever get our guns away from us....but just the thought of some trying gets my feathers ruffled. I do believe that we have enough honest and decent folks in elected office to more than offset the gun grabbers. Lots of good folks on here and good advise here also.
 
At first pass I wouldn't waste my money on that lawyer; his response struck me as a bit dismissive and specious. Why can't I yell "Fire" in a crowded theater that isn't on fire? For the same reason I cannot discharge a firearm in a crowded theater when there is no one shooting at me. In either case I still have rights of free speech and bear arms, I am simply not abusing them by arbitrarily yelling or shooting for no reason creating unnecessary havoc. This, of course, is what the grabbers think happens with the simple possession of a gun.

Using the same thought process correctly, if there was a fire in the theater I SHOULD yell "FIRE!" and hope everyone is warned and are able to remove themselves from the life-threatening situation. If someone was shooting at me in that same theater I SHOULD defend myself with a like firearm and allow others to remove themselves from a life-threatening situation. I guess in the one situation I should and in the other the grabbers say no I shouldn't.....

Sorry, this whole bestowing selective rights thing reminds me why we kicked out England in the first place.....
 
At first pass I wouldn't waste my money on that lawyer; his response struck me as a bit dismissive and specious. Why can't I yell "Fire" in a crowded theater that isn't on fire? For the same reason I cannot discharge a firearm in a crowded theater when there is no one shooting at me. In either case I still have rights of free speech and bear arms, I am simply not abusing them by arbitrarily yelling or shooting for no reason creating unnecessary havoc. This, of course, is what the grabbers think happens with the simple possession of a gun.

Using the same thought process correctly, if there was a fire in the theater I SHOULD yell "FIRE!" and hope everyone is warned and are able to remove themselves from the life-threatening situation. If someone was shooting at me in that same theater I SHOULD defend myself with a like firearm and allow others to remove themselves from a life-threatening situation. I guess in the one situation I should and in the other the grabbers say no I shouldn't.....

Sorry, this whole bestowing selective rights thing reminds me why we kicked out England in the first place.....

Good response to the "crowded theatre" analogy. I agree, many oversimplifications like this are thrown out by the anti-self-defense crowd, and it is useful to point out how they do not stand up to the light of reason.

Same time, I would not dismiss the lawyer's note too quickly. His point seems to be that the representatives in question are not to be easily reached by our general charges and allegations. He is right. If they were, they would be even more susceptable to improper influence than they currently are.

To the OP: I'd thank the lawyer for taking the time to respond, for not taking money for something that he doesn't think will get the results you want, and for being blunt.

Law-makers are granted certain immunities -- not complete, but substancial. If challenged they tend to insist that: 1) they were acting in good faith; 2) they believed it was for the good of "the people" and/or "the children"; and, 3) there is at least a somewhat plausible argument that it is, or ought to be, constitutional. As I am sure you see, referencing Heller suggests that the case highlighted a lot gray area, and opened the door for a lot of these arguments to be made. I think that would probably be enough to insulate the legislators from any real prosecution.

If shown clearly and obviously wrong, and they really had their backs against the wall, they could probably still be successfully defended by a claim of stupidity, ignorance or "Gee whiz, I guess I didn't think it through". Some of them even get re-elected on that stuff.

I might still mull over the lawyer's challenges, though: How, exactly and very specifically, has the particular legislator violated his/her oath -- and, what counter-argument will the legislator make in defense of such an accusation? ... and what is a good resonse to that?

If you kick it around and it still looks like you have something you want to run with, I'd consider what would be the best venue to raise the issue. (Civil or other legal action? Letter to the editor or TV news editorial comment? Political mailings or campaign-related publicity -- at the right time? Just getting the word out as best you can, without any more formal action?)

Who knows, you might see that you have some good stuff to go with -- and, what direction to go with it.

Either way, I like and respect your thinking on it.
 
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PS/ I hope the lawyer is right about Feinstein, Schumer, and their gun-rights-infringement legislation. We will see.
 
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I trust lincoln, when it comes to the law...he knows his business, he defended me once and the case never made it to the court room floor. I do believe he is right about Finestein and Schumer. the NRA is challanging the laws that were slamed through in NY State.
NRA joins lawsuit challenging New York's gun control law | Fox News

These laws still have to pass the constitutional challanges they will have ahead of them...one of the reasons I donate to the NRA every month. I just know that many of us would take an Oath to protect and Defend the Constitution a lot more seriously than some of our elected officals have....maybe some of them never put their life on the line for what it stands for....many vets have.
 
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