Developing CCW Course- What would you want in it?

[Rastoff]

There have been many comments on how CCW classes suck. Most don't want to go to one because they are often boring. I believe that it is the instructor's responsibility to make the class informative and interesting.

I'm currently developing a CCW class. There are certain requirements mandated by the state/county so, I have to include stuff about the law. I will endeavor to make it more interesting.

I also have to include stuff about gun safety. OK, that's easy enough. I want to include some gun handling as well.

If you had to pay for a CCW class, what would you expect? What would make you think you got your money's worth?

 

[P&R Fan]

Obviously safe gun handling is the first priority. After that, selection of the proper gun, holsters and ammunition. But I would stress the laws of the state. I took my class 29 years ago. Basically all they talked about was a few laws on the legal carrying of weapons. Not one word about shoot-no shoot situations. After studying good authors like Massad Ayoob and Clint Smith I have learned a great deal about what is involved in legal self defense. Most people think if you shoot a bad guy the Police are going to come up, shake your hand and congratulate you. The truth is you will probably be arrested, Mirandized, and questioned for hours. You will need a good attorney, and you will possibly be sued by the bad guy if he lived, or his family if he didn't.
Most people get their viewpoints from Hollywood.
It don't work that way.
Jim

 

[jlrhiner]

Proper equipment, proper mindset, and shoot don't shoot role play. Not just lecture, hands on.

 

[RobzGuns]

Agreed about 'finding an attorney familiar/specializing in Self Defense cases... perhaps retainers vs 'Insurance' hawked by various groups.

One aspect of my instructor's class that kept people awake was 'Dressing to Conceal'. My instructor wore Business Casual (slacks & Polo), successfully concealing no less than 7 different Pistols & revolvers, showing that one doesn't need to wear Mall Ninja attire to successfully conceal... Perhaps having a selection of holster types on display (IWB, OWB, Front Pocket, Rear Pocket, Ankle, Concealment shirt, etc)

What are some of the topics that always show up here on a regular basis?

Maybe list some of the various Reciprocity Sites and traveling with a handgun.
(Taking it a step further) Rules/Guidelines about Flying with a Handgun, with handouts (printouts) of the rules from a couple Major Airlines. There was a great thread here a few Months back to use as a reference.

 

[RobzGuns]

Oh yeah... Showing just how much ground an attacker can travel in the time it takes to draw (a blue gun) from concealment! That live demo got a lot of people's attention.

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

ccw classes

I have to say the NRA courses cover the essential basics that you should know and understand which the instructor covers. There is a lot of info to digest and it focuses on safety and basics that include fundementals of shooting, bench rest shooting, dominant eye, two hand shooting and one hand shooting on the basic pistol course. The basic course is eight hours and my students thank me for a course that was well planned and executed to the student. A 50 question test is given at the end of the course to see how much the student absorbed in the course. That is for the instructor. The range portion is slow and consistant to let the student know the gun he or she is using from the classroom to the range. These lessons are basics for the student to practice in their own enviornment. Some instructors take short cuts and give the class a bad rap because they did not walk away with the knowledge required.

Nick

 

[dlcra]

From my perspective of being relatively new (18months) to CCW, I'd like to see some comprehensive legal content. Nothing terribly detailed, mind you, but varied. For instance, along with the necessary legal stuff required of such a course get a LEO to speak to issues they have, or don't have, with CCW'ers as well as answer questions from the class.
Any information that I will be able to utilize, whether right away or in the near future, would make me feel that I had received my money's worth.
A great idea, Rastoff, and I hope to attend !

 

[venomballistics]

There have been many comments on how CCW classes suck. Most don't want to go to one because they are often boring. I believe that it is the instructor's responsibility to make the class informative and interesting.

I mean no disrespect when I say good luck with that, but ..... good luck with that

Law is as dry and condescending a topic as you'll find.
It, by nature comes off in tones of "you cannot and must not and must always ..."
theres no real good way around the lecture to a five year old feel here, even though it may be tempered a bit with story time, taking articles of things gone wrong with a humorous spin.
then there is the gun handling / safety ...
Speaking from my own perspective of a well seasoned marksman, I know what end of a 458 kills and what end maims, as well as a scope placed upon one indicates the presence of foolishness or evil on the part of its keeper.
We the seasoned cannot sit through this portion without boredom.
You'll know us right away during the handling portion.
if the drool comes out of both sides of our mouths, at least you know the floor is level.

As an instructor, you are forced to address all topics with the assumption of stone empty heads, even though many are not, and on this forum, the empty head is a very rare exception.
You have to torture us in the interest of covering the lowest common denominator. It's unavoidable.

You might wish to stress the fact that accuracy is final. In fact, at the range, devise a game where the best shot wins a box of ammo ... far end of the range, however you wish to play it

You may also wish to address reliability. we torture our carry pieces to a far greater degree than we might either know, or admit. Stress that the first shot may be the only one available, and must count.
The lint, rust and gummi bears that have migrated into the gun, may be enough to stop it cold.

 

[Rastoff]

...I'd like to see some comprehensive legal content. Nothing terribly detailed,...

These two phrases are mutually exclusive. The law, by nature, is excruciatingly detailed and convoluted. Paragraphs are filled with exhaustive descriptions in an attempt to cover every possible situation. They are also continually folded back upon each other. This law references that law which is limited by a definition in some other law.

I mean no disrespect when I say good luck with that, but ..... good luck with that

Law is as dry and condescending a topic as you'll find.

This is absolutely right. I hate it! Yet, I've got to discover a way to make it interesting for two reasons. First, so students will remember. A half remembered law can be worse than not knowing it at all. Secondly, I hate boring just as much as anyone. I don't want students to fall asleep or not want to come back.

We the seasoned cannot sit through this portion without boredom.

This is actually the biggest problem; the seasoned shooter. We are required by law to sit through a class to obtain or renew the CCW license. There are many who've been carrying for years and think they know what they're doing by virtue of time. Sadly many of us desperately are wrong in that thinking and need a refresher.

There is a demonstration called the Tueller drill. It's a reactive drill and demonstrates just how quickly an assailant can get to you.

Start with two people on the firing line. One with a gun and one without. The non-shooter is facing away from the target, shooter's support side, with his hand on the shoulder of the shooter. The non-shooter takes his hand off the shooter's shoulder and starts running. As soon as the shooter feels the hand leave, he draws his gun and fires two controlled shots. The non-shooter is carrying to small sand bags (could be anything really). As he's running, he drops one bag each time he hears a shot. After the second shot, clear the range and measure from where the non-shooter started to each bag.

It's a great demonstration of just how far a person can move before you can shoot them.

 

[Rastoff]

These have been great ideas. Keep them coming.

 

[gunblade]

One thing I would avoid is interjecting too much personal opinion into the lesson, especially with regard to a person's cholce of weapon. I've been to courses where the instructor was a revolver guy, and advised all the students to shun autos because "they jam." The same could be said for an instructor who was a Glock enthusiast for example, that tries to convince his students of it's superiority over other designs. I would instead discuss the merits of both styles, encourage the student to try different models, and leave the choice up to them, if the subject of gun type comes up.

 

[cmort666]

90% should be state and local firearms and self-defense law.

I don't know anybody with a CHL who's gotten in trouble for not knowing his gun.

I've seen a number who got in trouble for not knowing the law... or because local law enforcement didn't.

Just the other day, I saw somebody in the Cleveland Plain Dealer comments section claiming that it was unlawful for somebody with a CHL to come to the aid of another. It may or not be a good idea in a particular situation, but it's hardly illegal.

Protecting your liberty and your finances are every bit as important as protecting your life.

 

[Rastoff]

One thing I would avoid is interjecting too much personal opinion into the lesson, especially with regard to a person's choice of weapon.

I completely agree.

As an instructor, it's not my job to tell you what you want. It's my job to learn what works best for you and help you get the best from it.

 

[Bartman3562]

Be sure and stress response if you do ever have to use weapon.
I was threatened, I stopped the threat and I will gladly come down and give a full statement as soon as my attorney is available. And then SHUT UP.

 

[Rastoff]

Be sure and stress response if you do ever have to use weapon.
I was threatened, I stopped the threat and I will gladly come down and give a full statement as soon as my attorney is available. And then SHUT UP.

I have a book on CA gun laws written by a lawyer. In there is a passage that I will definitely quote in my class:

Probably the best reaction [after using deadly force] is to sit down, say nothing, look sad, and tell them you read a book that said after an incident like this you should say nothing and ask for a lawyer, so that's what you're gonna do. Then ask for the lawyer and say you intend to remain silent.