Did I just get hosed on this auction or am I being an ***

[walnutred]

Thursday I noticed a revolver on one of the online auctions that I was casually interested in. As I was only casually interested I placed a half-hearted bid, which met the owners reserve price. Expecting to get out bid anyway I didn't think anything more about it until Friday, when I get an e-mail from the auction house saying the owner had closed the auction early and I had won.

Fine, except that then I get an e-mail from the owner saying I did not win after all. He noticed that he incorrectly listed the model number in the heading and closed the auction early then re-listed the item with the corrected heading.

Now part of me feels really dissed. It's not my fault he posted the auction with an incorrect heading. I noticed that when I bid in the first place but I was going by pictures not description to determine model number. I did actually place a bid that met his reserve price though. Makes me wonder how understanding he'd be if I placed a bid and then refused to pay.

Ironically I'll be within a couple miles of the business tomorrow. I told him I'll be in to see the item in person and decide what I want to do then.

So am I being too thin skinned or do I have a legitimate gripe here?

 

[NFrameFred]

Sounds like a legitimate gripe, to me. Based on "caveat emptor", or basically "let the buyer beware", I bid on one based on the pics knowing the model number had been mis-identified. After winning the auction the owner contacted me and apologized, saying he noticed the discrepancy too late and offered to let me out of the bid if I chose to ( the price was still in line for the actual gun ). I accepted the gun and was pleased with it.

The fact that you met his reserve price should have put it into the same situation. Unless the pics were screwed up and the description was for another gun actually being auctioned, I personally would lean toward the attitude that someone bidding would (or should) know the difference between, say, a model 10 and a model 19 based on the pictures, and if a model 10 was indicated in the title but it was actually a model 19 and the price was fair, no harm no foul.

Just my opinion, but since you met the reserve price, I think a fair dealer should leave it up to you to decide if you want the auction to be valid or not.

 

[H Richard]

I feel you have a legitimate gripe. He listed it and set the reserve, he should sell it at that price.

 

[morsecode]

You don't say exactly how early he relisted with the correct model number. If he caught his mistake (if it was a mistake) in the first day or two I'd go along with it. If he ended the auction with less than 24 hours to go then his email might be translated : 'I was hoping to get more than one bidder.'

 

[Jack Flash]

What NFrameFred said makes a lot of sense.

The seller should offer to let you out of the deal or let you have it, your choice. That's the honorable thing to do. On a practical note, if you don't really want it, perhaps you should just forget it. If you actually do want it for the bid you made, that's different.

I agree with the comment that he probably wanted more bidders and is hoping to use some sorry little excuse to get out of the deal. Talking to him face to face may be a good idea. You can see if he is a stand up guy or not. If he isn't, no need to be rude or confrontational, just say "I don't do business like that" and leave.

 

[pred]

If I read your post correctly, The auction ran it's course and closed from it's own timers, NOT the gun owner ending it early.
I would think that it is your gun for an inspection,,, If you like it, It's yours.
3 years ago went to look at a used car at a dealership, It was a 3 or 4. year old Subaru with 16K miles listed in the paper for 9999.
Get there, Look at the car and my friend wants it, It's a smashing deal.
She says yes I will take it and guy says the add was a mistake, And I agree, the car is worth 15K, I say, we have the ad in the paper with us and we want it for what the ad says...
WIth some grumbeling from the dealership she get a great deal!
Peter

 

[m657]

RE

I was casually interested in. As I was only casually interested I placed a half-hearted bid,

....lotta speculation for 'casual' interest...

Can't offer Words of Wisdom here....

 

[s&wchad]

Maybe you are being too thin skinned. On most auction sites I use, once a bid is placed you can't change the initial listing - it might not be fair to the buyer. Misidentifying the model is a big mistake that can keep interested people from seeing the item. You did say he ended it early because he noticed it. It sounds like he's a new seller (or just internet challenged) and didn't know to cancel your bid before ending the auction and re-listing the item with the correct title. The auction sites do have provisions that allow it. I'd cut him some slack.

I have purchased target and combat stocks that were sold as Pachmayr's because the seller (who knew nothing about guns) found them in a Pachmayr box. I didn't feel obligated to tell them, but I wouldn't have pushed the issue or blamed them too much if they discovered their mistake and corrected it. It's never good when someone walks away from a transaction feeling hosed, it's much smoother when they don't know they hosed themselves!

If the condition meets your standards and it ends up selling for less than you'd be willing to pay, you're the one that loses out. If he was a jerk about it rather than being apologetic, then I wouldn't deal with him again.

 

[mroyal98]

Originally posted by m657:
RE

I was casually interested in. As I was only casually interested I placed a half-hearted bid,

....lotta speculation for 'casual' interest...

Can't offer Words of Wisdom here....

Yep, I would casually forget about it.

 

[Jeepnut]

You are NOT being an A#$...Gripe away.
I don't think that he wanted a higher price, just an honest realization that he'd make a mistake in the listing.
However, as we'd never make offers on things sight-unseen...you knew what it was, and made an offer that met his minimum terms. He should have honoured your offer, and left it at that.

Maybe, if the ammended listing goes up, make your same offer and it'll be done.

No, again. You aren't being an arse...

 

[tom turner]

Hi,

It sounds like it isn't one of those guns you REALLY wanted anyway so, it appears you are in the enviable position of walking away from the deal if you'd like.

Then again, if you want the deal because you realized the model was incorrectly listed and that's the reason you bid . . . then go raise cain when you are in the area next week.

I'm pretty sure the business owner will accommodate you if you really want it . . . since you met his reserve anyway.

I think the balls in your court either way!

Good luck,

Tom

 

[G-ManBart]

I'd contact the auction site and tell them what happened...that's worth a negative feedback at the least. If you "accidentally" type "10,000" rather than "1,000" when you're placing a bid and win because of it, you still have to ante up and pay...they didn't review the listing carefully enough when the submitted it and that's their fault...not yours. R,

 

[handejector]

FWIW-

A seller CAN cancel bids on ebay.

A seller CANNOT cancel a bid on GunBroker. I know this for a fact- I have spoken to GB about it. A seller CAN ask GB to cancel a bid for him.

I do not know if a seller can cancel a bid on AuctionArms.

 

[Onomea]

Originally posted by Jack Flash:
The seller should offer to let you out of the deal or let you have it, your choice. That's the honorable thing to do. .. Talking to him face to face ...You can see if he is a stand up guy or not. ...

I think he is not a stand up guy -- seems clear from his actions:

...I get an e-mail from the auction house saying the owner had closed the auction early and I had won. .... then I get an e-mail from the owner saying I did not win after all. He noticed that he incorrectly listed the model number in the heading and closed the auction early

The man lacks integrity. I'd walk away. I won't do business with people like that.

 

[walnutred]

Originally posted by G-ManBart:
If you "accidentally" type "10,000" rather than "1,000" when you're placing a bid and win because of it, you still have to ante up and pay...they didn't review the listing carefully enough when the submitted it and that's their fault...not yours. R,

Yeah, I was there earlier this year. I had won 2000 9x19 brass from a sellers in Texas by bidding $20. I was the only bidder on that auction. I decided that I'd pick up another batch if I could at that price except this time I accidentally typed in $200 rather than $20. I decided that as I was the only bidder last time to let it ride and see what happened. Ended up closing at $65

That was a lot more than I wanted to pay but I paid up and learned to slow down when bidding.

And really the $25 a thousand I have in the two lots isn't that bad when you consider factory ammo is almost non existent right now. This time next year I'll either wish I'd bought more at that price or still be laughing at my mistake.

 

[handejector]

when I get an e-mail from the auction house saying the owner had closed the auction early and I had won.

I meant to comment on this earlier.
This sounds like it must be a GunBroker auction. Their software automatically issues that notification when an auction is closed if it has bids. In other words, the guy could NOT end the auction without that notice being sent.

I don't have a lot of comment about the seller one way or the other, since I don't know how long the auction had run or how many bids it had. If the auction was not far into the term when cancelled, I'd say no harm done.
Perhaps he was just trying to list the gun correctly.
Perhaps he WAS afraid it would sell too cheap since it was listed incorrectly.
Perhaps it was a consigned gun, and he owed his CUSTOMER an obligation to list it CORRECTLY and obtain the max price for the gun.

Too much unknown data for me to judge the guy. It does usually seem that any seller that makes a mistake is automatically branded a crook immediately.
Auctions are WORK, and if one does many of them, one will eventually make a mistake.

If you "accidentally" type "10,000" rather than "1,000" when you're placing a bid and win because of it, you still have to ante up and pay...

Not exactly. If you let the bid stand, you should. IMMEDIATELY contact GunBroker with ALL pertinent data like the auction number and and the amount you bid and the amount you INTENDED to bid. Ask them to adjust the bid.
If placed in the closing minutes, also IMMEDIATELY contact the seller, explaining you have contacted GB to have your bid adjusted.
Given a chance, MOST sellers just want everyone to come out happy.

 

[Onomea]

Here's my view expanded: It seems to me that we all make mistakes in business. But a man of character lives with his mistakes, and tries not to make the same mistake again. When a seller tells a guy he is going to sell him something at a certain price, he can't later say, in my opinion, "I changed my mind because I was wrong about its value" or about what it was.

I believe the same about a buyer: "I'll take it" means "I'll take it." It doesn't mean "I'll take it if I reflect upon it later and still think I want it." (Unless there is an expressed inspection period.)

If it was a consigned gun, the owner and the seller should have agreed upon a bottom price. If the owner said to the seller, "I'll leave it to you," then the owner is never in a position to complain if he doesn't like the results.

I knew a guy who made a $10M mistake – he underpriced his offer by $10M on a >$100M deal because he overlooked something. This was biz exec at a very large company. He, and the company, ate the $10M.

"Say what you mean. Do what you say. First time, everytime."

The only way out of it is if the pain of the mistake is such that the guy making the mistake is willing to humble himself and ask the other guy, based on the explanation, if he will let him out of the transaction. If the other guy agrees, then it is "okay" to renege. But I would really, really hate to ever have to do that.

 

[Jack Flash]

Of course more information would be very helpful. For instance, if it was listed as an M28 w/4" barrel, but it is actually a 4" M27, there's a huge difference in price. If it's an M10 nickel and he thought it was an M64 stainless, not too big a deal...

It could just be that he made a rookie mistake. On the other hand, someone he knows may have tipped him off that he could get a lot more for it by listing it correctly.

That's why I suggest going to talk to him, which you seem to be inclined to do anyway. You can be calm and polite and tell him you made a bid in good faith according to the rules. You stand by it and expect him to do the same. An auction's an auction and a deal's a deal. See what he says.

 

[handejector]

When a seller tells a guy he is going to sell him something at a certain price, he can't later say, in my opinion, "I changed my mind because I was wrong about its value" or about what it was.

My point was-
The seller was NOT saying it was sold- the GB software automatically sends that message.
Most sellers do NOT even KNOW that announcement will be sent to the high bidder. The anouncement is AUTOMATIC.

I have ended one auction early because of a mistake, and since I knew that announcement would be sent, I contacted the high bidder, and got his approval and permission first.

Back to this guy- as I said, he may not have KNOWN the "sold" announcement would be sent, and merely thought the auction would be ended with no sale. ebay allows that, so many sellers think GB is the same.
I don't have a dog in this fight, merely pointing out possibilities.

I do agree that a deal, once made, must be honored. I have underbid jobs before, and basically paid for the privilege of getting exercise. The job was performed with the same attention and service as a profitable one.
I run guns at auction with no reserve. If I make money, that is nice. If I lose money, the gun still gets delivered. I have lost hundreds on a few guns. That is the nature of the game.

On the deal mentioned above, the 10m underbid, did they actually lose money, or just make less?
Some small time dealers simply don't have it to lose.

 

[Onomea]

Lee, in the $10M underbid deal I mentioned above, that particular deal lost money. Overall the company made money that year. I guess it is analogous to your losing several hundred on some guns, but delivering them anyway.

I think you make valid points about the possibility of the seller not understanding how GB works. If so, it's a good lesson about the importance of knowing the rules before you play the game. I do think if one doesn't have the money to lose, it should mean that one goes into debt. What's owed is owed.

And we're certainly in agreement that once a deal is struck, it must be kept by both parties. Like most of us, I've come into contact with people in the business world who do not keep their word. Occasionally they are even successful. But they rarely have repeat customers or partners, and I wonder what they think of themselves as they tuck themselves into bed at night.

I like that saying, to paraphrase, that honor is the one thing no one can take from you. You can only lose it yourself.

I am probably too harsh in my condemnation of the GB guy: You're right. I don't know the details so should not be so quick to judge.