Did I miss any good .380's?

[Kavinsky]

When the Walthers became available in stainless I bought two PPKS's a TPH and a blue PP .22 . The TPH went back and was finally replaced with a new gun. Both PPK's made the trip back to the factory. Even after a break in period only the blued PP seemed reliable until the firing pin broke.
Count me out when it comes to Walthers.

The Hsc is a beautiful precision gun but it could be a chore to find magazines, grips and parts for. Be careful and don't lose that goofy little trigger spring when you go to disassemble it.

My sister had a Smith model 37 for purse carry. She absolutely hated it, mostly because of recoil. Her son bought a sig P230 and she fell in love with it. She promptly bought a new P232. She loves the ease of use and accuracy. I love the ergonomics and laser like accuracy. I also like the heel catch for the magazine. This prevents inadvertant magazine release while carrying it in your pocket unlike those with the 1911 style mag release.
I have had this happen with my P-3AT.

If low cost is an option and you want a Walther style pistol a lot of individuals are quite fond of Bersa......I have no experience with them.

hmm actually how do you take down the HSC? the trigger guard seems to be part of the frame unlike on the walther PP series where you pull down on it and back on the slide to release it.


and I have to admit the 230 was one of the ones I was considering in its blued form but I'm not sure if it would be like the beretta before it were it just feels kind of odd to handle it because of its aloy frame.

and I kinda want to stay away from stainless if I can help it as I'm just not really a fan of polished stainless guns as any sort of a mark on it and it looks like hell unlike a blued gun where it gives it character

It'll say "Made in Italy" on the slide, IIRC. The originals will have German proofmarks and the Interarms imports like mine will say "Made in W. Germany" on the slide.

All the Hsc Supers, the double stack, high capacity models, were made by Gamba and have a less than stellar reputation.

and I am glad you said that, I was looking on the online website of a place close to me and one of the guns listed was the HSC super, not the normal one and I was wondering about that.

and actually I see a fair number of HSC supers in the gunbroker ads, maybe thats why they seem to have alot of complaints about them as it may be purely the logic that if the double stack one is **** then the single stack must be as well.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

One of my favorites although it's an inexpensive gun and has an alloy frame is the Makarov. Good gun for the money but no where near as nice as my Sig.

 

[Kavinsky]

One of my favorites although it's an inexpensive gun and has an alloy frame is the Makarov. Good gun for the money but no where near as nice as my Sig.

have to admit I did give the markarov some thought but it just doesnt really apeal to me and if given the choice I would have gone for the CZ 83 over it as they more or less seem to be the same gun although I like the finish of the CZ over the markarov

plus I'm not really a fan of russian or CZ guns to begin with even though one of my all time favorites is based of of the CZ 75 design.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

My first 380 was my Makarov, I got it back when they were almost giving them away (around $125 if I remember correctly) so it's a good value but hasn't been used for a long time. When I need a 380 fix I take the Sig out.

 

[forindooruseonly]

and I am glad you said that, I was looking on the online website of a place close to me and one of the guns listed was the HSC super, not the normal one and I was wondering about that.

and actually I see a fair number of HSC supers in the gunbroker ads, maybe thats why they seem to have alot of complaints about them as it may be purely the logic that if the double stack one is **** then the single stack must be as well.

Well, I guess I spoke too soon. The Hsc thread over at the THR has people piping in with complaints about theirs - German or not. I'd hate to recommend a gun that people have had so many problems with. I guess I got lucky and came up with two good ones. Test fire if possible before buying I guess.

 

[Cyrano]

The HSc takedown catch is a little dingus (technical term) in the front of the trigger guard. Pull down on it, it's got a fingernail notch, then pull back on the slide and up, The back end of the slide will come up and out of the frame, and then you can slide it to the front off the barrel. You can do it quicker than you can read this.

 

[matmat417]

I love me bersa thunder, one of my favorites. cheap reliable and accurate like a sonofagun.

 

[Packard]

Walther PPK/S, made in Germany, blue & all steel. Even used, they are well worth it. Outstanding small semi-auto. Just wish it had adjustable sights.

I had a PPK/S in Stainless Steel that was stamped "Made in Germany". They throw that phrase around a little too loosely to suit me. Back when I bought the gun (about 1980) the law allowed "Made in Germany" stamp if the final assembly was done on German soil.

So in the case of the Porsche 944, which was make entirely in Spain, but arrived in Germany with the seats not bolted down, it was allowed to be "made in Germany" once the seats were bolted down on German soil.

In the case of my PPK/S, the gun was made in Portugal, but the grip panels were not screwed in. Once they were screwed in on German soil it was "made in Germany".

This is not to deride the quality of the weapon (which was excellent), but to deride the phrase "made in Germany" (which is a bunch of bull****).

All of this information was courtesy of one of the gun magazines back then, but I cannot remember the name of the magazine.

 

[Kavinsky]

I had a PPK/S in Stainless Steel that was stamped "Made in Germany". They throw that phrase around a little too loosely to suit me. Back when I bought the gun (about 1980) the law allowed "Made in Germany" stamp if the final assembly was done on German soil.

So in the case of the Porsche 944, which was make entirely in Spain, but arrived in Germany with the seats not bolted down, it was allowed to be "made in Germany" once the seats were bolted down on German soil.

In the case of my PPK/S, the gun was made in Portugal, but the grip panels were not screwed in. Once they were screwed in on German soil it was "made in Germany".

This is not to deride the quality of the weapon (which was excellent), but to deride the phrase "made in Germany" (which is a bunch of bull****).

All of this information was courtesy of one of the gun magazines back then, but I cannot remember the name of the magazine.

so we've got made in france and then given to the germans for final assembly with the slides with manhurin and now portigal, plus the whole interarms thing made in the USA and that whole debacle with them

makes you wonder if they even wanted to really make the damn thing, actually it might explain why they just willy nilly sold the rights to smith and wesson for the thing in 2000 and dumped it from their line up all together save for the PPK/E which is made in czechoslovakia under the walther banner and I bet there not happy that bond is now using an out of production walther now, atleast he was in the last film especially with the PPS series being its replacement.

although I think I might have noticed something crucial though it seems like the walthers that have the eagle on their grips are better finished and overal better looking than the other "made in germany" walthers

maybe thats the true mark that it was fully made in germany?

although I have been hearing the same sort of grumblings about sig sauer doing exactly the same thing with their guns now, hence my interest in the 230 and not the 232, plus I like the lower profile sights of the first version, I mean I can shoot pretty damn well with minimal sights on the 49 bodguard as long as the grips long enough for my hand to properly grasp the frame of the gun.

and I mean hitting clay pigeons at 25 yards well in DA with the 49, the benefit of 20/15 vision I guess and the good finger grove PSG grips that came with the gun that the cop put on before me, it was a little used, often worn trade in

Well, I guess I spoke too soon. The Hsc thread over at the THR has people piping in with complaints about theirs - German or not. I'd hate to recommend a gun that people have had so many problems with. I guess I got lucky and came up with two good ones. Test fire if possible before buying I guess.

its just as well I was having trouble convincing myself to like them, something about it just seemed off like the para ordinance and auto ordinance before it

I love me bersa thunder, one of my favorites. cheap reliable and accurate like a sonofagun.

hmm interesting gun, do they make a proper fully blued version of it?

also what about the Bernardelli model 60 .380? does anyone know anything about that ones reputation?

 

[matmat417]

kavinsky i think they do but im not 100 with it.. but yes very interesting piece.

 

[sophie]

I don't know much about the Bersa .380.
I own a Walther PPK/S (Interarms) and a Mauser HSC, both from about 1981 and both are good shooters.
HSC is a little picky on hollow point ammo but the PPK/S not so much.
PPK/S a lot more accurate at 25 yds. I know neither one is a target shooter. Designed for self defense at 15 to 20 ft.
I am always suprised how accurate the PPK/S has been to be such a small pistol.

James

 

[26Ford]

I read thru this rather quickly, but I have my mention. The AMT Backup .380. Fits in the palm of the smallest hands, and made in U.S.A., well " was " anyway. I am always looking for the .45 AMT, but they carry quite a price tag in my area, WHEN you can find one. My second vote is for the Bersa. A true like or hate brand, but I know more that like them than hate them many times over. I would not hesitate to buy a Bersa. , 26

 

[VAPA]

S&W Bodyguard 380 has a manual safety.

 

[CO_Kid]

My wife's gun is a Sig 232, used to be my BUG on patrol, until I took her to the range to teach her how to shoot. She went through a mag, then turned to me and said "this is my gun now, you have to go get something else".

It's big for a 380, and it doesn't reliably feed hollowpoints, specifically the Remington Golden Saber. She keeps it loaded with Pow'R'ball and it's 100% reliable with it.

 

[AR_Black]

The NAA (North American Arms) "Guardian" 380 is a great, solid pistol. Mine ran flawlessly. I wish I never got talked out of it. Definately worth checking out. Maybe I should get another...

North American Arms NAA-380 GUARDIAN GUARD .380ACP

Some of the new Guardians come with the "Internal gun lock" like the S&W revolvers. BUT I've got a few in my shop without the lock. Each comes with two 6-round magazines. It is heavier than a J-Frame 642 when loaded. I kept one for myself last month, shot about 50 rounds in it so far. Shoots to point of aim at 7-yards. Recoil is stout. Not for first time shooters. Not for casual plinking either.

It also just seems so heavy when carried in a pocket holster. The S&W .380 is lighter.

I don't know if I'll keep the Guardian..... mostly because I'm much more used to the J-Frame .38's.

And check out this chart:
North American Arms NAA-380 GUARDIAN GUARD .380ACP

 

[Rule 303]

Here are two pictures of the two .380s I have that are steel framed guns, one is a FN 1922 that my dad used in the WWII and brought home and Browning 1910 that I bought in the 70s.

Both are excellent guns for concealment.

Rule 303

 

[steamloco76]

Believe it or not, the wife and I both have Taurus TCP .380's. After 200 or so rounds to break in mine is ultra reliable and shoots almost any ammo to POA with decent accuracy. The wife's needed the extractor replaced and a new magazine before it settled down to run like a champ. You can buy them for $230 new.

I wish my Browning BDA .380 (Yes I know it is basically a Beretta 84 with an enclosed slide!) fit in a pocket. It is beautifully crafted, reliable and fun to shoot. Never gets carried though.

Ruger is selling their LCP with the laser for around $370 now. Hard to beat that for the dough.

 

[Kavinsky]

North American Arms NAA-380 GUARDIAN GUARD .380ACP

Some of the new Guardians come with the "Internal gun lock" like the S&W revolvers. BUT I've got a few in my shop without the lock. Each comes with two 6-round magazines. It is heavier than a J-Frame 642 when loaded. I kept one for myself last month, shot about 50 rounds in it so far. Shoots to point of aim at 7-yards. Recoil is stout. Not for first time shooters. Not for casual plinking either.

It also just seems so heavy when carried in a pocket holster. The S&W .380 is lighter.

I don't know if I'll keep the Guardian..... mostly because I'm much more used to the J-Frame .38's.

And check out this chart:
North American Arms NAA-380 GUARDIAN GUARD .380ACP

still it does sound like it does what its set out to do and does it well from the accounts here and I'm certainly not a novice shooter.

so far what I'm thinking is the guardian .380 and the LCR for pocket carry or back up duty and maybe something like the
blued Sig 230 for range/ holster carrry as I can probably negate the possibile sticky feel of the alloy frame with some wood grips, although I'd want to find something along the lines of the gloss walther PPK plastic Grips for it with a brown PPK look going for it like bond had with his PPK's in the early films as it gives it a nice contrast that I really like

stainless is out though as I'm REALLY not a fan of stainless pistols and I'm about to make my one and only exception to that rule with the 645 for a full sized pistol if nothing comes out of vltors mouth in the next month or so regarding the bren ten.

or go for the PPK/S or the bersa as honestly I just really like the look of the old PPK design.

S&W Bodyguard 380 has a manual safety.

I'm not really a fan of it, it reminds me too much of the PPS and the new line of walther pistols which I dont really care for.

I read thru this rather quickly, but I have my mention. The AMT Backup .380. Fits in the palm of the smallest hands, and made in U.S.A., well " was " anyway. I am always looking for the .45 AMT, but they carry quite a price tag in my area, WHEN you can find one. My second vote is for the Bersa. A true like or hate brand, but I know more that like them than hate them many times over. I would not hesitate to buy a Bersa. , 26

the amt idea kind of makes me nervious as I've heard their the ones that are known for having stainless steel gailing issues as they supposedly use the same hardness steel for both the slide and the frame causing the galing issue and my gunsmith has openly called them ****, something I've never heard him say about anything in that shop or about anything really, auto ordinance included.

Here are two pictures of the two .380s I have that are steel framed guns, one is a FN 1922 that my dad used in the WWII and brought home and Browning 1910 that I bought in the 70s.

Both are excellent guns for concealment.

Rule 303

actually with the FN1922, I found an old photo of my grandfather with one from the war, must have been his issued sidearm from the luftwaffe, sadly he didnt keep it and chucked it in a lake after the war as he didnt want to get caught with it.

anyways is their any real danger of the safety being clicked off accidentally with the FN1922 or the 1910 there from pocket carry like that guy said he felt could happen with his colt 1908 .380?

 

[Will Carry]

If you don't mind my asking sir, why must it be made of all steel?

 

[Kavinsky]

If you don't mind my asking sir, why must it be made of all steel?

I noticed that the beretta 85 cheetah started to feel really uncomfortable in my hand after awhile of snap cap practice with it while the other guns in collection didnt, all of which are either poylmer (two glocks, a M17L 9mm M23 .40, and ruger 22/45) or steel (smith 49. 29, K22/17 dan wesson 357, ruger ect ect) save for one of the browning 25 acp's

and there was no other reason for it to do that besides it being alloy framed, as the checkering was fine, the grips werent too sharp although they were plastic which could have been a contributing factor to it heating up in my hand like it did and feeling sticky

and then I picked up my old steel kimber and came to that conclusion as I've picked up the kimber and the glock many times for snap cap practice and they've never felt like that after practicing with them

plus its happened on range trips with it before, I kept wondering okay why dont I like the feel of this gun right now, something is really off about it while when I picked it up at the gunshop I really liked it as much as the steel framed sig 232 I was trying on for size all of those years ago.

and I find that old steel and wood guns just have a look that polymer guns just dont have hence the preference, plus the polymer ones I knew of dont have any sort of external safety like the kahr arms, a real put off in a pocket gun kind of use, atleast with a semi auto unless the triggers heavy enough.

plus I dont care for kahr arms in any regard and they were the only ones I knew of who dont have the glock trigger system that I'm trying to get away from with the glock 17L and 23 as I've thought about getting rid of them many times for that trigger system as its starting to bug me while shooting them now.