DID THE SINGLE STACK 9MM KILL THE CARRY REVOLVER?

[Det-Sog]

IMHO... The "single stack" 9mm did not kill anything. Yes, It took a huge bite from the amount of revolvers being used for EDC, but there are still lots of snubbies floating around the streets. Probably a lot more than you would think.

IMHO, yeah, I'm full of... Opinions... The snub-nosed revolver is like Harley-Davidson. There are more modern, cheaper alternatives that might perform better, but the snubbie has a dedicated fan base of older guys that grew up with them and will always have one in the collection. There are also a lot of younger people that "get it", realizing the snubbie does what it was designed to do VERY WELL.

Simply put... Harley-Davidson is not going anywhere, and neither is the snubbie.

Some days the Shield 9 gets duty, some days the PD340 with 5 x .357 gets the call. This time of year, it's the PD340 nine times out of ten.

 

[DonD]

No. A revolver still has, in most instances, a reliability edge and no sweat if the round doesn't light off, pull the trigger again.

Not even a G29 can equal the 610 ft lb punch of my Ruger SP101 using Buffalo Bore 158gr JHPs and the smaller cross section adds even more to barrier pentration issues. Don

 

[bronco45]

In a sense I split the difference with a Kahr 9CM. 16oz, good sights, smoooth double action at 6lbs and a 3 second reload.

Very accurate, very accurate and 300 smackers out the door. Hides easier than a J Frame.

 

[usmc2427765]

Revolvers are simple, easy to use and, nearly idiot proof. As an LEO firearms instructor, I discovered it was much easier to train new hires on a revolver rather than a self loader. A semi-auto requires regular practice which, may or may not be available. I did carry a 1911 in the twilight years of my patrol work and shot it weekly. With that said, I always, always had a J frame second gun in my boot.

Texas Ranger Frank Hamer was quizzed about carrying a revolver and his reply was "Well if I needed more than five rounds, I wouldn't be very good at law enforcing".

 

[Coaltminer]

It's still is, and always will be, hitting what you shoot AT. Carry whatever you feel comfortable with and practice. I carry a dink 380 Bodyguard which is better than anything I used to carry, which was NOTHING. It's a blast to shoot and it goes everywhere and is smaller than most wallets. I just pray I never have to use it, but I'm prepared. Friend has an LCP and has never fired it.

 

[kthom]

Everybody has an opinion, as well as a personal preference. So do I! I am an old revolver carrier and user. I have several, and among them are my favorite guns. I had little use for a semi auto for many years. When the striker fired semi autos appeared, I began to look at them more closely. The mode of operation as far as drawing, shooting by just pressing the trigger, and reholstering was little different from my revolvers. The semi's allowed easier carry and slightly faster reloading capabilities than did my revolvers, although by this time, I could reload my revolver faster from my loop loader on my service belt faster than most folks could imagine.

After I quit wearing the Sam Browne belt for a living and wore civilian clothing all the time, a six round loop loader on a belt slide was about the best I could manage, and those six rounds were pretty obvious! My first experience with a striker fired gun was a glock. Could not abide the shape and angle of the grip. I also had little use for revolver grips that did not fit my hand well because none of us can shoot their best with a gun that does not fit their hands well. I even flirted strongly with the 1911 platform during this time. My head was NOT programmed to manipulate the thumb safety as a part of bringing the gun into action. NOT GOOD! Yes, enough shooting and training could have changed that, but I was old enough and so set in my ways that I did not elect to put myself through that process. I tried several other striker and hammer fired DAO semi autos. I owned an S&W 4586 that was a dandy gun in all respects. But it was too big and heavy to carry and conceal every day. I tried others with out warming up to them. I bought a good used M&P 9MM fulled sized semi auto. I really liked it too, but it is a large gun to carry every day. I continued to carry my revolvers, vascillating between a Model 640-1 J Frame and two or three of my K Frames with 2.5" or 3" barrels.

Then one day I had a chance to hold, handle, shoot and carry a Shield 9MM. My friend, the owner, allowed me to carry it for a few days. I was very impressed, so I bought one and started carrying it some as well as continuing to shoot it regularly to discover how reliable it was. At some point, I began to carry it regularly. It was easier in some ways to carry than my revolvers. With 8 +1 rounds in the gun and a single 8 round mag on my belt, I had about the same number of cartridges as I did with my K Frames and two reloads and more than the J Frame with two reloads. The semi auto reloads were more readily accessible than my revolver reloads and were easier to conceal. The Shield was also flatter and lighter than my steel framed revolvers. And I could shoot it as well or better than my revolvers.

Now what I am telling you is my own experience. I don't say it does or should mirror your experience. It took me a long time to admit that I could find no good reason not to carry the Shield other than my personal preference for the revolvers. I can say honestly that I now own two of the 9MM Shields )one is my wife's). I have also bought into the Shield .45. That one has made the difference for me. I have not carried either my revolvers or my 9MM Shield since. I am perfectly comfortable carrying +P .38 Special or good 9MM premium ammo for my personal protection needs, but I like the bigger heavier bullets very much.

I have fired thousands of rounds through the Shields as well as a full sized M&P9 and M&P 45. I have not had one personal experience that has diminished my full faith and confidence in any of them. At this point, I trust them as much as my beloved revolvers. And I can carry as much or more ammo for the semi's as the revolvers more easily and reload them more quickly. And I can carry the semi autos more comfortably as well.
So my revolvers get shot at the range and stand by for back up or house guns and occasional sentimental carry. But my EDC is the Shield45.

For me, the old argument about the reliability issues between a good revolver and a good striker fired semi auto are moot. Everything we do and every choice we make involves compromises. And for me the additional rounds, the ease of carry of both the gun and the extra ammo, and the speed and ease of quickly reloading the semi's have tipped my scales slightly in favor of them. If I couldn't shoot them well, they'd be gone by now. I can, at least as well as I can shoot these days. If my britches or even short pants are on me, so is my EDC, and with few exceptions, that will be the Shield45 these days. I have looked hard and long, and I personally find no reason to change that at this point.

I'm not saying what you should do, except that you should carry what you like and can carry the easiest and what you shoot the best. I will not carry either platform if there is a question in my mind about the platform or the specific gun. My Shields are as they came from the factory, well broken in and smoothed and slicked up by lots of rounds down the pipe. They are my current choice and will be as long as I have this confidence in them. But I haven't and don't intend to get rid of my revolvers either, because I have the same confidence in them. Actually, I'm kind of in hog heaven here. What's not to like? I think a man ought to carry what he likes the best IF he can do good work with it and if he trusts it. That's the best advice I can give. You gotta work that out for yourselves! My story is what has worked out for me, and over a pretty long period of time. I ain't lookin' for anything else today for EDC or personal protection. Am I still looking? Yeah, but mostly only at older fine S&W revolvers!!! I've got all the semi's that I need .... but in my world, there is definitely room for both platforms!

 

[JayFramer]

NO

YES

Or do you win because you have more J-frames?

Seriously, I don't personally think single stack 9mms "killed" the carry revolver, but posting up a picture of your vast collection with the word "NO" does not somehow automatically vindicate your position.

 

[sigp220.45]

It definitely put it on the ropes, though I think the LCP sized guns were a bigger factor.

I shoot at least once a week on an indoor range. I haven't seen a revolver (other than mine) there in months.

I have to do a geezer qualification once a year for LEOSA. You'd think it would be a bastion for revolvers, but last time my Detective Special and another old coot's Model 60 were the only ones there.

Here in the echo chamber revolvers are still relevant. Out in the world I think its a different story.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Here in the echo chamber revolvers are still relevant. Out in the world I think its a different story.

Asking people in a revolver forum if the revolver is dead, and most of them say, "no." What a surprise.

 

[American1776]

I love revolvers, but I do think the 5 shot snub nose is getting eclipsed by the plethora of small and reliable 380 and 9mm.

The main reason for the 5 shot snub was pocket sized reliability. There was a time when reliable small autos were few and far between. Today, the newer small autos are very reliable.

Also, 5-6 rounds may not be enough today. Multiple attackers, terrorists with rifles, and mass public shooters with long arms are a real possibility. When the 5 shot snub was popular, a good guy was most likely going to up against bad guys with revolvers. Now, bad guys will have 18 shot pistols at a minimum.

You can find many cases of police officers (both on and off duty) and armed citizens who either died or lost a gunfight due to running their 5-6 shot wheelguns dry. Many of these situations were much like what a private citizen might face (mall shooting or the like).

7-9 rounds of 380 or 9mm, with a fast reload, beats 5 shots of 38 and a slow reload.

 

[sw282]

l read somewhere years ago that New York City keeps detailed records of

gunfights in the city and has been since 1852. Reading along it said the

average number of ''Shots Fired'' over these last 165 years 2.7 rounds..

Using that information leads me to the conclusion l have enough rounds

in my little Centennial Model for TWO gunfights before having to reload.

 

[ExcitableBoy]

Boys, boys, boys... play nice, now.

I think I'll just start carrying one of each and make everyone happy.

Oops! Now I've got to pick which ones to pair, and which rigs to use... Sorry, I guess I didn't think it through far enough. My choices would be sure to get someone riled up.

 

[gman51]

A lot of people new to guns for protection or just because they might be banned bought the latest craze going which was the semi auto. Many of those guns probably are still in their original boxes in some drawer.

In most cases a person that might get involved in the less than 1% chance they will need a handgun will not be involved in a situation that they need more than 1 or 2 rounds either. Also like some said the semi auto might only have 2 or 3 more rounds loaded than a revolver anyway.

I started out with semi autos but now they sit in the safe while I carry a 44 special five shot revolver. Most personal attacks where a gun might be needed are usually up close not across a street shoot out. I would say the average person involved in a shooting situation would be up close and lucky to get one round shot off let alone have the time to shoot 8 times. Facts are things aren't like in the movies.

 

[silversnake]

I love revolvers, but I do think the 5 shot snub nose is getting eclipsed by the plethora of small and reliable 380 and 9mm.

The main reason for the 5 shot snub was pocket sized reliability. There was a time when reliable small autos were few and far between. Today, the newer small autos are very reliable.

Also, 5-6 rounds may not be enough today. Multiple attackers, terrorists with rifles, and mass public shooters with long arms are a real possibility. When the 5 shot snub was popular, a good guy was most likely going to up against bad guys with revolvers. Now, bad guys will have 18 shot pistols at a minimum.

You can find many cases of police officers (both on and off duty) and armed citizens who either died or lost a gunfight due to running their 5-6 shot wheelguns dry. Many of these situations were much like what a private citizen might face (mall shooting or the like).

7-9 rounds of 380 or 9mm, with a fast reload, beats 5 shots of 38 and a slow reload.

Could you please link to these armed citizens who died because their revolvers ran out of ammo? My reload is going to be to grab another snubby, hopefully that won't take too long.

 

[Smurfjones0796]

Everyone have different tastes. There are a lot of people who enjoy revolvers and feel comfortable shooting them. I have 3 daughters all of them choose a revolver over a semi auto (they hate loading magazines) In conclusion no the single stack hasn't killed the revolver because not everyone likes the same things.

 

[pvq]

It's funny that I happened upon this thread just this morning. I am a 30 year law enforcement veteran who up until about 10 years ago carried a J frame or equivalent (most recently a Ruger LCR) revolver daily. More recently I've carried all sorts of compact and single stack 40's, 9mm's and pocket 380's, but lately, I've been longing to return to my roots. Just yesterday I picked up a 642-2. I would have preferred a -1...but -2 was what was available so I opted to just disable the lock. I was very happy with my LCR, but I like the option of using the DeSantis Lip Grip (unavailable for the LCR) which I believe is the PERFECT IWB solution for a J-Frame revolver. I also think that there is no better ECD for ankle carry than a revolver since even the slimmest of 9mm's print more through dress pant legs due to the blockier design. I don't think the "J" frame is going anywhere anytime soon.....

 

[Old cop]

The one advantage the revolver has, especially a super light J like the 340PD, is weight. To date no 9MM has come out that is as light as this model revolver. I pocket carry b/c of back & hip problems and aside from the LCP, the 340PD (about the same weight) is my choice for EDC.

 

[S&WsRsweet]

Never met a J frame I couldn't shoot well even with hotter loads never met a small auto that I can shoot well with the exception of the Walter PPK but I guess it doesn't count as a small auto anymore .The small auto pistol has been around for years but now the gun companies have the technology to go to a 9mm round the only problem is shooting that slim light easy to conceal but hard to control small auto .Take the place of the small revolver lol no get traded in on a small revolver very likely .

 

[ejjeff]

Not for this old guy or his wife and daughter, but I suspect the younger generation may go the semi route for the most part. My son did as did my son-in-law.

 

[BAM-BAM]

IMHO and that's all it is; my opinion...............................

No.......

That said; I've carried a single stack 9mm 3913/NL or 3914 95% of the time since about 1990......................

I also own and carry a 3" 66 and 65 along with a couple of 2 and 3 inch J-frames..................mostly woods/cabin/country carry.

the small revolver has survived 27 years of compact single stack 9mm autos being available......my guess is they will survive at least till we can get a........ phaser set on stun!

Today we just have more options............................ not a bad thing IMHO!!!

 

[Coaltminer]

Did the Single Stack 9mm Kill the Carry Revolver

One more post. I've been using the same range about once a week for 35 years and have never seen anyone shooting a J frame or Colt snubby. Amazing

 

[silversnake]

One more post. I've been using the same range about once a week for 35 years and have never seen anyone shooting a J frame or Colt snubby. Amazing

It's similar where I shoot. Almost nobody has a revolver, about the only time I see one is when one of the instructors is teaching handgun basics and has a student take a few shots with a revolver.

I won't say what he's shooting but the trigger on his revolver is so bad I'd be amazed if any of his students ever wants to shoot one again.

 

[g8rb8]

I am an engineer by education but my wife is the more logical of the two of us. Now that I have that kicked that nugget of information out there, here goes my story. I have taken my wife shooting handguns a number of times but this year she decided she wanted her very own home defense gun. She wanted to look at the various options again so I got out a Kahr CM9, a Glock and P series SIG along with a S&W M60 and a Ruger Security Six from the safe. I explain the manual of arms for all of them and showed her how to load and shoot all of them. This took a while and to be fair, she couldn't rack the slide on the Kahr by herself. At the end of this exercise she looked at me and asked why anyone would chose an autoloader for self defense. We then drove to the local gun shop and she purchased a new M67. This is a very nice shooting gun by the way.

I observed a similar interesting experience with a 21 year old female who was able to experience a wide variety of semi-autos and revolvers. Wise beyond her years with one post-graduate degree and now in law school, she picked a 4" .38 special M&P from the late 1940's with an action smooth as butter.

Women are the more intelligent of the species ....... according to my wife ..........and my observations tend to support that notion.

 

[American1776]

Could you please link to these armed citizens who died because their revolvers ran out of ammo? My reload is going to be to grab another snubby, hopefully that won't take too long.

I used the term, 'either died or lost the gunfight'. Here are some examples:

1) Massad Ayoob collects many of these cases. Rich Davis, the man who invented second chance vests, took a bullet to the guts after emptying his 6 shot wheelgun at three armed thugs, hitting three of them multiple times.

2) Here's the case of Jason Hendrix (off duty, in a shopping center). He had a 5 shot S&W model 36, the suspect had a Glock 17. Hendrix shot the suspect 4 times out of five, twice hitting him in the chest, and then his gun went dry. The suspect shot Hendrix in the face, guts, arm, pelvis, and tried to execute him as he laid on the ground. Shots Fired: Palm Desert, California 03•30•1996 - Article - POLICE Magazine

3) The death of NJSP trooper Lamonaco prompted the dept. to switch from 6 shot 357 magnums to the 9 shot HK P7M8. Lamonaco was shot by environmental terrorists who wielded browning hi-powers against the trooper's 6 shot revolver.

4) The ISP switched to the S&W model 39 (8 shot 9mm). In that time period, there were at least one, if not a few, cases where troopers would have certainly died if all they had were the 6 shot wheelguns. There was one case where the suspect counted 6 shots from the trooper's pistol, and after the sixth, charged the trooper with his shotgun. The trooper shot the suspect with his last few rounds. The suspect told his attorney he swore the cop's gun was empty.

5) There's the case in California, where at least one trooper was killed after his K-frame magnum ran dry. When he took the knee to reload, the suspect executed him with a 9mm before the trooper could close the cylinder.

That's just five that I remember off hand. there are many more cases where 5-6 were not enough.

 

[Arik]

l read somewhere years ago that New York City keeps detailed records of

gunfights in the city and has been since 1852. Reading along it said the

average number of ''Shots Fired'' over these last 165 years 2.7 rounds..

Using that information leads me to the conclusion l have enough rounds

in my little Centennial Model for TWO gunfights before having to reload.

Then all you really need is a Derringer

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[haywood]

Small Semi-Autos may be more popular but, the Snub Revolver will still live in many pockets and waist bands forever. The Semi-Auto guys just haven't discovered what they are missing. Give it time.........

 

[silversnake]

I used the term, 'either died or lost the gunfight'. Here are some examples:

1) Massad Ayoob collects many of these cases. Rich Davis, the man who invented second chance vests, took a bullet to the guts after emptying his 6 shot wheelgun at three armed thugs, hitting three of them multiple times.

2) Here's the case of Jason Hendrix (off duty, in a shopping center). He had a 5 shot S&W model 36, the suspect had a Glock 17. Hendrix shot the suspect 4 times out of five, twice hitting him in the chest, and then his gun went dry. The suspect shot Hendrix in the face, guts, arm, pelvis, and tried to execute him as he laid on the ground. Shots Fired: Palm Desert, California 03•30•1996 - Article - POLICE Magazine

3) The death of NJSP trooper Lamonaco prompted the dept. to switch from 6 shot 357 magnums to the 9 shot HK P7M8. Lamonaco was shot by environmental terrorists who wielded browning hi-powers against the trooper's 6 shot revolver.

4) The ISP switched to the S&W model 39 (8 shot 9mm). In that time period, there were at least one, if not a few, cases where troopers would have certainly died if all they had were the 6 shot wheelguns. There was one case where the suspect counted 6 shots from the trooper's pistol, and after the sixth, charged the trooper with his shotgun. The trooper shot the suspect with his last few rounds. The suspect told his attorney he swore the cop's gun was empty.

5) There's the case in California, where at least one trooper was killed after his K-frame magnum ran dry. When he took the knee to reload, the suspect executed him with a 9mm before the trooper could close the cylinder.

That's just five that I remember off hand. there are many more cases where 5-6 were not enough.

Other than Mr. Davis every case involves LEOs, not armed citizens...I agree there are cases where 5-6 rounds were not enough, but unlike a state trooper, I don't have to stick around to apprehend a bad guy.

Look at the story of Jason Hendrix for example, he hears a disturbance at the front of Wal-Mart and goes to resolve the situation. Me? I'll walk out the back door and not feel an iota of guilt.

 

[Arik]

Other than Mr. Davis every case involves LEOs, not armed citizens...I agree there are cases where 5-6 rounds were not enough, but unlike a state trooper, I don't have to stick around to apprehend a bad guy.

Look at the story of Jason Hendrix for example, he hears a disturbance at the front of Wal-Mart and goes to resolve the situation. Me? I'll walk out the back door and not feel an iota of guilt.

Just like the case where a lady shot her intruder 5 times with a J frame and nothing happened. Luckily for her, he didn't know she was out of ammo and decided to leave instead of getting shot a 6th time

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[American1776]

Other than Mr. Davis every case involves LEOs, not armed citizens...I agree there are cases where 5-6 rounds were not enough, but unlike a state trooper, I don't have to stick around to apprehend a bad guy.

Look at the story of Jason Hendrix for example, he hears a disturbance at the front of Wal-Mart and goes to resolve the situation. Me? I'll walk out the back door and not feel an iota of guilt.

There are times when running away are not an option. The Hendrix case could have happened to any one of us, LEO or not, given slightly different details at the outset. Had this not been a domestic, but the suspect was a mass shooter, we may be forced to return fire to protect ourselves and our dependents. I have a three year old daughter. I cannot run away from a firefight the same way I could if I were alone.

Explaining away these cases by saying 'That won't happen to me, because I'll just run away', doesn't address the real issue at hand: When you are forced to defend yourself and family, 5-6 rounds *may not be enough*.

 

[Watchdog]

This whole article really doesn't say anything or prove any kind of a point one way or another, and how many times have we heard this question asked in one form or another?

It's simply another "analysis" or opinion piece written by just another Internet blogger "gun writer" who really reaches no kind of definite conclusion. We've seen thousands of articles like this. This author brings his article to a close by basically saying it's up to the individual as to which gun he chooses. Insert huge yawn here_______________.

There is absolutely nothing new here, and really not one original thought in the whole thing. I don't think there's anything in the article that's going to make anyone here change their mind about their carry weapon of choice.

We've had better and more knowledgeable thoughts on this subject written by members of this forum.

Matter of fact, this little article isn't even about whether or not the single stack has doomed the revolver to extinction.
All it is is just another comparison piece...revolver vs. semi-auto. It actually sounds like a similar article written by the same guy wherein he talks about small semi-auto pistols.

Articles like this one bore the bejesus out of me. Makes me want to go back to bed and take a nap. Probably the best idea I've had all morning.